Octane 87 89 91 93 95 ???????
#21
08-03-2006, 01:20 PM
Originally Posted by sillypuddy
I used to drive my 99 accord 4 cylinder around with a OBD2 screen permanantly attached.
when i use 87 octane (as recommended), the timing advance is LOWER than if i used 92 octane
so in contrary to what was said here, the stock computer does compensate for the knocking in the engine and DOES in fact retard timing
what's minimum is going to get the car moving, but we are performance oriented, so minimum is never good enough :-)
-joe
when i use 87 octane (as recommended), the timing advance is LOWER than if i used 92 octane
so in contrary to what was said here, the stock computer does compensate for the knocking in the engine and DOES in fact retard timing
what's minimum is going to get the car moving, but we are performance oriented, so minimum is never good enough :-)
-joe
Until someone can show me on a dyno that a car that was designed to run on 87 makes more power to the wheels with 91+ put in, I will never believe it.
#22
08-03-2006, 01:28 PM
Someone that Posts too much
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 711
same day, same time of day, same car, same gas station, same pump
is that same enough for you?
-joe
is that same enough for you?
-joe
#23
08-03-2006, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by sillypuddy
I used to drive my 99 accord 4 cylinder around with a OBD2 screen permanantly attached.
when i use 87 octane (as recommended), the timing advance is LOWER than if i used 92 octane
so in contrary to what was said here, the stock computer does compensate for the knocking in the engine and DOES in fact retard timing
what's minimum is going to get the car moving, but we are performance oriented, so minimum is never good enough :-)
-joe
when i use 87 octane (as recommended), the timing advance is LOWER than if i used 92 octane
so in contrary to what was said here, the stock computer does compensate for the knocking in the engine and DOES in fact retard timing
what's minimum is going to get the car moving, but we are performance oriented, so minimum is never good enough :-)
-joe
and as fifth gear's octane test proved, unless you have a high performance car the difference in high octane fuels won't make a whit of difference to the power delivered to the wheels.
#24
08-03-2006, 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by sillypuddy
same day, same time of day, same car, same gas station, same pump
is that same enough for you?
-joe
is that same enough for you?
-joe
Give me dyno proof (a dyno can adjust for different ambient temperatures) and Ill believe you. Besides even if MAYBE POSSIBLY you DO IN FACT gain 1-2 whp, how can you possibly feel that or even have it make enough differnence to justify the difference in cost.
#25
08-03-2006, 05:49 PM
Someone that Posts too much
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 711
i never said that it gains power, my post always have said, it retards timing with the lower octane and advances it with the higher octane
you can believe what you want, but i did the actual test with the obd2 reader, with a little bit less than half a tank of gas (i drove a lot for my job before) in the morning and same amount in the afternoon
the difference was about 10 degrees of timing difference between the two octane levels
retarded timing would translate to less responsiveness, not necessary less power.. so when you push the gas pedal, there might feel like a lag before the power comes on
-joe
you can believe what you want, but i did the actual test with the obd2 reader, with a little bit less than half a tank of gas (i drove a lot for my job before) in the morning and same amount in the afternoon
the difference was about 10 degrees of timing difference between the two octane levels
retarded timing would translate to less responsiveness, not necessary less power.. so when you push the gas pedal, there might feel like a lag before the power comes on
-joe
#27
09-16-2006, 12:19 PM
Don't forget that the original post was from Thailand - I am not sure how it is rated there, but octane in the United States will be about 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, would be 91-95 (regular) in Europe (and most of the rest of the world.)
Lots of good info at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Lots of good info at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Last edited by tubaman; 09-16-2006 at 02:05 PM.
#28
09-16-2006, 01:10 PM
Originally Posted by tubaman
Don't forget that the original post was from Thailand - octane in the United States will be about 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, would be 91-95 (regular) in Europe (and most of the rest of the world.)
Lots of good info at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Lots of good info at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the "headline" octane that would be shown on the pump is the RON, but in the United States and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2. Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, this means that the octane in the United States will be about 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, would be 91-95 (regular) in Europe.
It's not a quality difference, just a measurement difference.
#29
09-16-2006, 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by MirrorWorks
In agreement with what everyone else is saying, I have to say that this is probably wrong. A car's fuel mapping has to be able to take into account higher octane, but the fit's fuel mapping is only designed for 87. Any more, and you truly are wasting money.
A good example of this in real life would be from my previous car, stage 2 05 WRX. It takes 91 octane, and if you put in any more, nothing really changes. Later on, I got a chip with which you can re-flash the ECU to change the fuel maps. One time I got about a 3/4 tank of 100 octane gas, and i changed the fuel map to 93 octane to take advantage of the boost, and yes it did change things quite drastically, but without that fuel map change, it didn't really do jack.
As for the comment on keeping the engine cleaner, I disagree with that as well. I have an engineer friend who works at Chevron that has taught me what I know about this subject. Some gasolines come with detergent additivies, such as Chevron's "Techron". Techron is available in all of their octane ratings, thus all of the octane ratings "clean" just as well as any other. The reason gasses like Arco are so cheap is because they don't use additives or they don't use as much, I forgot.
Some will argue that Techron is marketing BS, but I believe my friend that works at Chevron..she's a chemical engineer, so I trust her word.
Hope this sheds some light on the issue.
Tre
A good example of this in real life would be from my previous car, stage 2 05 WRX. It takes 91 octane, and if you put in any more, nothing really changes. Later on, I got a chip with which you can re-flash the ECU to change the fuel maps. One time I got about a 3/4 tank of 100 octane gas, and i changed the fuel map to 93 octane to take advantage of the boost, and yes it did change things quite drastically, but without that fuel map change, it didn't really do jack.
As for the comment on keeping the engine cleaner, I disagree with that as well. I have an engineer friend who works at Chevron that has taught me what I know about this subject. Some gasolines come with detergent additivies, such as Chevron's "Techron". Techron is available in all of their octane ratings, thus all of the octane ratings "clean" just as well as any other. The reason gasses like Arco are so cheap is because they don't use additives or they don't use as much, I forgot.
Some will argue that Techron is marketing BS, but I believe my friend that works at Chevron..she's a chemical engineer, so I trust her word.
Hope this sheds some light on the issue.
Tre
This subject has been discussed and beaten to death in every single forums so many times.
#31
09-17-2006, 09:06 PM
Hmm instead of worrying about the fuel octane, it might be wiser to worry about the quality of the fuel. Fuel from larger petrol company are usually more expensive and has less impurities. These impurities can turn into deposits that cause an engine to detoriorate over time. Despite how much you pay for your fuel though, gasoline will always contain a certain amount of impurities, that's why gasoline additives exist to clean away the deposits. Additives are important and valued by car lovers. In North America, there is a general concensus that Chevron's Techron is the best additive. People who use Chevron's gas might sometime use its supreme gas (95octane) even though it is not required for the car. That's because its Supreme and Supreme Plus contain more Techron. Also, it is often said that switching gas brand is a bad idea as an engine gets use to how a certain gasoline additive reacts.
As for some who thinks more additive means less gas: very little additives are added to gas. In most states and Canada, all gasoline companies are required to add gasoline additive to their gas because deposits create more emission. Most companies don't advertise their additives because they are junk that have many negative side effects (harm the environment, harm your car etc.)
As for some who thinks more additive means less gas: very little additives are added to gas. In most states and Canada, all gasoline companies are required to add gasoline additive to their gas because deposits create more emission. Most companies don't advertise their additives because they are junk that have many negative side effects (harm the environment, harm your car etc.)
#32
09-17-2006, 09:20 PM
All gas comes from the same refineries
One gallon of any octane gasoline has the same amount of power. The octane is a measurement of how fast the gasoline will burn. Different engine designs require different burn rates (octance) by design. If you use a higher ocatane than specified by the design engineer you are causing the fuel to burn inefficently based on the engine design. There are engines that are designed to run on lower octanes withouit knocking but these engines also do not work at maximum efficency and generally burn more fuel.
There are very few oil refineries in the us and all gas comes from these few sources. The oil companies advertise their additives as a means of getting the consumer to make a buying decision on a factor other than price.
Why would you pay a higher price for gas at a " brand name gas station" if the gas they were selling was exactly the same as the independants? You wouldn't and shouldn't. Gas at a specific octance is a commodity that is the same.
Don't believe the advertising, do the research.
There are very few oil refineries in the us and all gas comes from these few sources. The oil companies advertise their additives as a means of getting the consumer to make a buying decision on a factor other than price.
Why would you pay a higher price for gas at a " brand name gas station" if the gas they were selling was exactly the same as the independants? You wouldn't and shouldn't. Gas at a specific octance is a commodity that is the same.
Don't believe the advertising, do the research.
#33
09-17-2006, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by dave92029
There are very few oil refineries in the us and all gas comes from these few sources. The oil companies advertise their additives as a means of getting the consumer to make a buying decision on a factor other than price.
Why would you pay a higher price for gas at a " brand name gas station" if the gas they were selling was exactly the same as the independants? You wouldn't and shouldn't. Gas at a specific octance is a commodity that is the same.
Don't believe the advertising, do the research.
I'm not sure if the distributors add the additives themselves or ask the refineries to do it for them, but different chemical compounds are different chemical compounds. They react differently, thus some gas additives cause cars to sputter out black smoke and some cause cars to emit less polutants.
#34
09-18-2006, 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by vbo
Me with a L13A IDSI :
with 95 = 7liter/100km gas millage
with 98 = 6.3liter/100km gas millage (one time with 4 people in the car and other things, same gas millage)
The IDSI burn more fuel in Higway. I think with a Mugen filter, i can increase gase millage.
with 95 = 7liter/100km gas millage
with 98 = 6.3liter/100km gas millage (one time with 4 people in the car and other things, same gas millage)
The IDSI burn more fuel in Higway. I think with a Mugen filter, i can increase gase millage.
The mileage not depend of the octane number.
On my car (Jazz 1,4L) run 105 octane number because runs LPG (propane). So I have about 10% LESS mileage because the LPG has smaller density.
(Now my engine needs little more compression or 4 degree more advance timing to exploits the more octane number but I can not do any device to fix it.)
The mileage depends on the density of the fuel, so the diesel runs more than petrol.
#35
09-18-2006, 09:33 PM
Actually higher octane in an engine that doesn't need it/isn't required to have it can cause "damage". It can result in more deposits on valve stems and such. I have seen these effects before. If your engine is not pinging, your timing is not retarded. "Performance range" indeed. It seems you folks are new at this.
Originally Posted by da_bom
One reason that higher octane fuel could give you improved performance is this: modern engines use "knock sensing" technology, where the ECU detects pinging and retards the ignition timing to stop it. Higher octane fuel will result in less pinging, or pinging only at much higher rpms, meaning that your ignition timing stays in the performance range longer.
But as for any damage, no. And I don't think that anyone is going to see a big performance boost from higher octane fuel in a 109hp vtec 1.5.
But as for any damage, no. And I don't think that anyone is going to see a big performance boost from higher octane fuel in a 109hp vtec 1.5.
#36
09-19-2006, 06:47 AM
Someone that Posts too much
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 711
fastbike... some of us are not new to this
i had obd2 scanners hooked up to my 3 honda with both 87 and 92 octane gas and they all show timing advance on 92.. go figure
-joe
i had obd2 scanners hooked up to my 3 honda with both 87 and 92 octane gas and they all show timing advance on 92.. go figure
-joe
#37
10-16-2006, 02:32 PM
87 or 89 or 93 octane
Hi everyone, new to the site and forums
We got our Fit last weekend, and so far very happy with it.
Once a mechanic told me to put 93 octane gas in my '95 Saturn to eliminate knocking, and added that I will have fewer problems with the engine in the long run if I consistently used 93 octane. He was right, I had no knocking since then and it has been a problem free car at 160k until we sold it last weekend.
I wonder if using 93 on the Fit will bring in better milage, more power and longetivity to the engine.
Thanks
We got our Fit last weekend, and so far very happy with it.
Once a mechanic told me to put 93 octane gas in my '95 Saturn to eliminate knocking, and added that I will have fewer problems with the engine in the long run if I consistently used 93 octane. He was right, I had no knocking since then and it has been a problem free car at 160k until we sold it last weekend.
I wonder if using 93 on the Fit will bring in better milage, more power and longetivity to the engine.
Thanks
#38
10-16-2006, 02:37 PM
I don't know if there are any downsides to using it but I haven't used anything but 93 since I bought mine in May. 16000 miles and going strong
I would believe 93, over time, would leave less carbon deposit in the motor.
I would believe 93, over time, would leave less carbon deposit in the motor.
#39
10-16-2006, 02:42 PM
Since I installed the CAI I had lost 3mpg so I would run at aboug 29-30 average on the 22lbs 17inch rims. After replacing the rims w/ lightweight wheels I gained 1more mpg running on 87, after trying 89 that gave me +2more mpg so I was sometimes at 33mpg as advertised.. Recently within the past two fillups Ive used 93 octane both of which I got 35mpg on the tank..
Recently within the past two fillups Ive used 93 octane both of which I got 35mpg on the tank..
