I have a new '05, and the factory pads are supposed to last to 110k,
and that's great, but I'm really more interested in maximizing braking
performance.

I've put Performance Friction pads on other vehicles I've owned and
been pleasantly surprised at the improvement. I don't mind that they
might only last 50-60k.

Of course dealers caution against using anything but "genuine Honda"
parts, but as long as you match parts (organic vs partial metallic) is
there any real reason not to persue improved stopping performance?

On that subject: Any advantages to stopping / handling by taking wheel
size to 16"?

Thanks.

-- CL.

+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing / Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

Charles Lasitter wrote:
> I have a new '05, and the factory pads are supposed to last to 110k,
> and that's great, but I'm really more interested in maximizing braking
> performance.
>
> I've put Performance Friction pads on other vehicles I've owned and
> been pleasantly surprised at the improvement. I don't mind that they
> might only last 50-60k.
>
> Of course dealers caution against using anything but "genuine Honda"
> parts, but as long as you match parts (organic vs partial metallic) is
> there any real reason not to persue improved stopping performance?
>
> On that subject: Any advantages to stopping / handling by taking wheel
> size to 16"?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- CL.
>
> +-----------------------------------------+
> | Charles Lasitter | Mailing / Shipping |
> | 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
> | cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
> +-----------------------------------------+

if you're using "performance" pads, make sure you change them front &
rear, not just one axle - essential for proportioning.

yes, performance pads do improve braking, but one of the costs, as you
say, is pad wear. you usually get much higher disk wear too. oem honda
pads are fairly good at keeping the disk surface from getting too
scored, are reasonable in the anti-fade department & minimize dust
getting on the rims. you'll see significant downgrade in all 3 factors
if you change pad. this is particularly important regarding scoring as
that can lead to excessively fierce disk grab and frequent wheel locking.

 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:1111939418.412afa968720fa85c2324e02d5ad36cc@t eranews:

> you usually get much higher disk wear too.

That is partially a function of how the car is driven, I'm sure.
People doing auto-cross stuff will really be doing a number on their
rotors. I don't plan to abuse the brakes in normal driving, but I
really want them to "be there" when it comes time to save my bacon.

> oem honda pads are fairly good at keeping the disk surface from
> getting too scored, are reasonable in the anti-fade department &
> minimize dust getting on the rims.

I don't doubt any of this. The Performance Friction Carbon Metallic
pads will be noisier, and generate more dust. I can live with that
in exchange for better emergency braking. They're built without
resorting to rivets, and the only particular concern I have is for
warping the rotors.

I hate seeing all the tire guys put on wheels without using a torque
wrench. Next time I think I'll just stand behind them with a bat
and hit them with it if they don't follow the correct pattern or try
to run them on with an air impact wrench.

> you'll see significant downgrade in all 3 factors if you change
> pad. this is particularly important regarding scoring as that can
> lead to excessively fierce disk grab and frequent wheel locking.

What I don't know now is the best upgrade for the rear, since that's
drum and not disk. Ideas on that would be helpful too.

-- CL.

+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing / Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

Charles Lasitter wrote:
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
> news:1111939418.412afa968720fa85c2324e02d5ad36cc@t eranews:
>
>
>>you usually get much higher disk wear too.
>
>
> That is partially a function of how the car is driven, I'm sure.
> People doing auto-cross stuff will really be doing a number on their
> rotors. I don't plan to abuse the brakes in normal driving, but I
> really want them to "be there" when it comes time to save my bacon.

they're "there" if they resist fade. i tried several different pad
materials while i lived in san francisco. some were great under normal
braking, but faded so bad on repeated steep hills, i thought i was going
to bend the brake pedal trying to get the car to stop. oem will fade to
a degree, especially when new, but after that, they're pretty good.

>
>
>>oem honda pads are fairly good at keeping the disk surface from
>>getting too scored, are reasonable in the anti-fade department &
>>minimize dust getting on the rims.
>
>
> I don't doubt any of this. The Performance Friction Carbon Metallic
> pads will be noisier, and generate more dust. I can live with that
> in exchange for better emergency braking. They're built without
> resorting to rivets, and the only particular concern I have is for
> warping the rotors.

rivets have higher heat tolerance, but because there are more steps
involved, are more expensive to manufacture. there's nothing wrong with
them even though bonding has some other advantages.

>
> I hate seeing all the tire guys put on wheels without using a torque
> wrench. Next time I think I'll just stand behind them with a bat
> and hit them with it if they don't follow the correct pattern or try
> to run them on with an air impact wrench.
>
>
>>you'll see significant downgrade in all 3 factors if you change
>>pad. this is particularly important regarding scoring as that can
>>lead to excessively fierce disk grab and frequent wheel locking.
>
>
> What I don't know now is the best upgrade for the rear, since that's
> drum and not disk. Ideas on that would be helpful too.

if you have rear drum, i'd recommend sticking with oem pads on the
front. seriously. i'm not aware of "performance" drum shoes being
available the same as disk pads. for this reason, and as the survivor
of a near fatal brake proportioning problem one time, i really don't
recommend using anything that upsets the front/rear balance.

you can try converting to rear disk, but i'd never do that on a new car
- ruins resale value.

>
> -- CL.
>
> +-----------------------------------------+
> | Charles Lasitter | Mailing / Shipping |
> | 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
> | cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
> +-----------------------------------------+

 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:1111946111.8b6b797999b9cc64ea7623432723b719@t eranews:

> if you have rear drum, i'd recommend sticking with oem pads on the
> front. seriously. i'm not aware of "performance" drum shoes
> being available the same as disk pads.

I didn't think so either.

> for this reason, and as the survivor of a near fatal brake
> proportioning problem one time, i really don't recommend using
> anything that upsets the front/rear balance.

My previous experience with upgrading disc/drum and disc/disc have
been quite different from yours, so I finally did what I should have
before posting: Googled this group for "Performance Friction".

The threads on these pads have been largely positive.

But thank you for your opinion. It did make me stop and think.

-- CL.

+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing / Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:1111946111.8b6b797999b9cc64ea7623432723b719@t eranews:

> if you have rear drum, i'd recommend sticking with oem pads on the
> front. seriously. i'm not aware of "performance" drum shoes
> being available the same as disk pads.

I didn't think so either.

> for this reason, and as the survivor of a near fatal brake
> proportioning problem one time, i really don't recommend using
> anything that upsets the front/rear balance.

My previous experience with upgrading disc/drum and disc/disc have
been quite different from yours, so I finally did what I should have
before posting: Googled this group for "Performance Friction".

The threads on these pads have been largely positive.

But thank you for your opinion. It did make me stop and think.

-- CL.

+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing / Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

>
> if you have rear drum, i'd recommend sticking with oem pads on the
> front. seriously. i'm not aware of "performance" drum shoes being
> available the same as disk pads. for this reason, and as the survivor
> of a near fatal brake proportioning problem one time, i really don't
> recommend using anything that upsets the front/rear balance.

Ditto, if you have rear drums, you're better off staying with OEM pads.

I assume your Accord has a standard tranny, otherwise the brake-life on an
automatic would be shorter. In your setup, the rear drum should easily last
over 100,000 miles. It'd be a shame to replace the original rear drums with
inferior aftermarket stuff (I wouldn't trust any manufacturing that would
produce performance shoe for the rear...It doesn't make sense). Also, if you
only add the performance pad up front, it might feel good in the dry, but in
poor conditions, the mix matched braking performance will hinder you.

The drum brakes on my 1998 Civic Hatch has 230,000km on the original pads.
In my case the drums are sufficient since the Hatch only weights about
2300lb. If I'm using the engine to help me brake (which is a norm for me), I
can easily make full use of the available traction on my 195/50/15 Toyo
Proxies FZ4. My winter Nokia would give out too quickly during emergency
braking when compared to the Toyo (assuming dry condition).
My wife's 2000 Civic that's ABS equipped, has 205/45/16 Z-rated Dunlops.
Emergency braking on that car is a gut wrenching experience. So, tires does
make a difference (more so on some cars when compared to others).

Pars


>
> you can try converting to rear disk, but i'd never do that on a new car
> - ruins resale value.
>
> >
> > -- CL.
> >
> > +-----------------------------------------+
> > | Charles Lasitter | Mailing / Shipping |
> > | 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
> > | cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
> > +-----------------------------------------+
>