Ok, Mods & Admins;

I am raising this concern with you guys because I don’t want to get banned or in trouble;

I am having a bit of an ethical crisis here; basically the nuts & bolts of the issue is that Jim from Tirerack is recommending tires and rim combinations that don't work... I have tried a couple of times to bring it up that the combinations don't work and next thing I know he is recommending yet another size on another thread that somebody will end up ordering and have a giant problem with.

In once case he started telling people they have to negative camber in order to make the sizes they purchased (on his recommendation) work. This is bullsh!t, do you have any idea how frusterating it must be for somebody to get told that after they bought a set of wheels on reccomendation so they fit correctly?

I have been trying to work with the guy and mention they shoud update their site so they recommend correct sizes and offsets, ones that work with stock Fits. I just had an argument with him about using 195/40R17 tires which he was telling everybody didn't meet the load capacity limit... it was 1019lbs!! That is the exactly same as the stock Fit tires are rated at!!!

Ok, anyway enough story & drama;

Here is my dilemma;

Tirerack is a Sponcor, so I am not trying to discredit them or cause any issues; on the other side I have a conscience and I really don't want to see people getting screwed around like this.

Please advise

Also if you think this is causing too many waves and don't care about being FitFreak being ethical & moral, just delete the thead and send me a PM to drop it. Can do, will do.

 

I honestly don't think you're gonna get anywhere against a sponsor. FitFreak makes money off of them.... it doesn't matter what they do as long as that fact remains. For example: try getting a straight answer from anyone regarding iKONA's past practices.

 

Yeah I have been reading up on that who iKona thing, not impressed. You know it would be nice to see Internet Brands take the lead in responcible management when it comes to moral integrity of sponcors.

It is not that I don't think Tirerack is a good sponsor, but it would be nice if they took a minute to listen to what people are saying especially when it comes to fitment and take that feedback and use it to make their products even better.

I really don't understand why I come up against such feirce resistance when I am mentioning to the problems with certain fitments. The only result of somebody odering it is they have to return it, that isn't the proper way to do business when you have so much information available to you to correct the problem early on.

The whole not reccomending 195/40/R17 issue is really bothering me as well. When I questioned it he said it was load capacity... this is not true. It was just a method of deflecting the question instead of having a serious look at it. If it falls under the no-reccomendation list maybe he needs to flag it to the management guys at TireRack to have another look at it.

The biggest issue I have is they keep reccomending seriously wrong wheel offsets. It seems like they are reccomending offsets that are too low and the wheels that are available with higher offsets are not being picked up by thier online program. Maybe we can have a member with a stock Fit to go up to visit them and get this nailed down the right way? That would be the ethical way to do this.

I will credit Jim for being calm and cool, he does have good insight. The issue is more the information he is provided through Tirerack rather than his advice. I would like to see TireRack remain a sponsor here, they do have an excellent reputation when it comes to sales & business which I am in full support of.

 

The load capacity is true. The factory load is 1102 lbs and the 195/40R17 is 1019 lbs. It is the way that we have to sell. If you want to put on something that is below the recommended load on the car we have to warn you. As long as it meets the GVW of the car per axle we can sell it with a warning.
I wish I knew why you think our offsets were seriously off. Do you have brake drawings and drawings of the wheel wells. We offer fitments that do work on the car. Some of them may take modifications to the fender lips or more negative camber. Some members will do this to make a wheel fit. Either for looks or performance.
I don't believe that you have purchased any wheels from us for the car. So if there is a wheel you think fits the car I can check and let you know. We do a lot of homework and spend more time and money verifying all of our fitments than anyone in the industry.
I do not want to continue a fight with any of the members. Like I mentioned before if anyone has an application they want to check on all they have to do is call or email me direct.

 

For the record I am not "fighting", I am discussing carefully things which need to be addressed.

How can it possibly be true when your own website states that for a Honda Fit using the exact replacement 14" Dunlop tires has a max loading capacity of 1019lbs? I linked you to the page, you can look it up yourself if you want; they are described as OEM equipment. Here you go.... right from your website. 1019... exactly the same max as the 195/40/R17 which you keep telling people is not meeting the minimum criteria.


If you don't want to recommend them (for whatever reason) you are well within your rights in this case. I just want to point out your given reason is invalid.

To answer your statement about not purchasing from Tirerack before; I have purchased 17" 195/40/R17's tire from Tirerack, not rims. I made that clear already.

This is all beside the point; This is not a thread to dispute such things.

My point here is your guys have NOT done your homework when it comes to the Fit. You continue to suggest wheel & tire combinations that just simply don't work. You cannot get a +38 rim with a 205/40/R17 tire onto the Fit without either cambering out at a degree that would ruin your tires or rolling the fenders. Lots of people buying are not signing up for that, you don't make it clear in your recommendations here on the site. If you don't believe me PLEASE try it out for yourself, I promise you it won't work.

If somebody buys and then you phone them after to tell them this is what is going to happen then fine, but instead of doing that why don't you guys recommends tire combinations that work? Then give the option of modifications to suit if they want to?

The bottom line here is if you are going to continue to recommend certain fitments I am going to be right there telling people otherwise because I will feel morally obligated to. I don't like seeing people go through unnecessary hassle and hard times, that is the entire point of this forum.

At the end of the day we are on the same team Jim, we both want members here to be happy with their purchases.

 

Anyway, I am done here;

Mods & Admins; you guys can figure out what you want to do from here about this. I would rather not get banned or something over this, but I think there is a serious issue that has now been flagged & needs to be looked at more in detail by you guys.



-SP out!

 

Take a look at the 15" Fit OE tires. They have a higher load capacity from Honda. We go with the Honda recommended load capacity. They must have raised the load for a reason with the 15" and 16". I am not really sure what the problem is anyway. If you want to run the smaller size with lower capacity go ahead. We warn you and you buy the tire.

As far as the wheels go some members want to push the envelope. You don't get to decide what is right for everybody. Just like we don't. There are some fitments that need some work and some guys are willing to do that. Not everyone, but there are people who want the most aggressive look. I don't see that as a crisis. I have sold even more aggressive applications for the car. We did look at the 38mm offset and did take them off the application. They were hitting on a screw in the rear fender well.

 

So you are saying the max load capacity has something to do with the rim diamter then? That really doesn't make sense to me to be honest. I have an open mind if you have a theory as to why it would be a factor.

I hit that same screw in the rear fender with a +42 offset 17" rim with a 205/40 tire... bad enough that even the tire shop I bought it from gave up after they shaved it down and it couldn't be corrected. They even cut up the inside of my fender trying to make it work. After about 3 weeks they took the rim back and as a lessons learned they don't sell +42 rims to Fit owners anymore without test fitting them first. This has been adopted at most tire shops around here, they don't sell rims with less than +45 to Fit customers.

Now, this isn't just me. Other members locally & on FitFreak have all expereinced similar issues with +42 rims (both 16" & 17") when using 205 tires on a stock Fit. Like I have been saying all along, you can make +42 work if you use certain brands of tires. But ideally for a stock Fit you should be reccomending +45 and attaching a warning to reccomendations less than that.

With +38 you are talking another 4mm out, that is way past pushing the envelope without modification. You might be able to make it work with 195/40's (we won't get into that again), but with a 205 of any brand I am 99% sure you are going to send a set of rims to somebody that will rub and they won't be happy. I am very glad you guys took it off the application program, that is a big step forward.

Keep in mind, the HFP 16" rims come in a +55 configuration. It would be nice to see rims with that kind of offset showing up in the application program. For example, there are some 15" SSR Type-F's that come in a +48 configuaration; is a fantastic option for somebody who wants to run lightweight wheels on the Fit and not have to worry about rubbing.

 

Jim does not get it, you are talking more about sizes/offsets
(not sure why he retunrs to max load rating)
truth is any offset less than 42 on the 09 gets iffy (well basically anything less wont work on 09), especially depending on what tire, lowering etc. Less than about 40 gets iffy too on GD3

I know you are a loyal customer with TR as am I.
Your intent is based on friendly good will, supporting members (and possibly saving TR some returns and unhappy customers)
You are doing a good thing Sugarphreak!


.

 

I do get it just fine. He is talking about a lot of things and tire size is one of them. Like you mention in your post lower offsets are iffy. But some people want to push the envelope and will do things to the car to make things fit. We will tell customers if something is aggressive. If they know it will take some work then that is fine.
I did have the wheel guys take off the 38mm offset wheels though.
I am sure you have seen cars with widebody kits or with the fender lips rolled and more negative camber. Look in any magazine and you will see them.
I am not trying to be difficult but what is good for one person is not always good for another.

 

I don't know, honestly if I was running a tire shop I would be inclined to reccomend fitments that have no problems first... in your case Tirerack has the online application; that is your first contact with people so it should have combinations that are basically problem free. Then if people want something different or more aggresive it would be prudent to start looking into fender rolling and negitive cambering as ways to work around problem fitments.

Negitive cambering is usually a last resort unless you are going for a VIP look. It ruins your tires and honestly unless I was stuck with a set of rims and no cash or alternatives I wouldn't do it on my car. If people want to do it that is up to them, but they should be advised it might be required with certain fitments.

Also, I had mentioned before. I think it is a step in the right direction that they pulled the +38 from the application. It would be nice if a caution symbol popped up for +42 or less (at least for 16" & 17" rims) so people know what they are getting into.

What is the maximum offset the application picks up Jim? I think it could be increased safely to +55

Yeah I have been hearing the 09' Fit is even more sensitive to offset than the GD3's. Manxman had even posted up a caution to people under the GE8 thread somewhere.

Let me make it clear that I have nothing against TireRack at all, I would encourage people to buy from them because they do have a responcible & reputable history with god only knows how many clients. Honestly I am getting close to pulling the trigger on some Khumo XS myself from them because they are the only place that seems to have them in stock.

This is a fresh report of rubbing problems with +42 16" rims right now on my +45 thread for the GD3's though. Same type of crap; the tires rub against the clips and bottom out. He ended u switching to 205/40's and it looks ok now. +42 is a really touchy offset when you start getting into larger diameters, I have seen some Fits that have no problem and others that just don't work at all with it.

 

And there he goes again; he just recommended a 205/50/R16 tire to somebody with a +43 offset wheel like an hour ago.

What do we know?
We know that +42 16" wheel with a 205/50/R16 tire could potentially rub on a 2007/2008 Fit

We know that the new 2009 Fit is even more sensitive and this risk increases

We know that 1mm is not enough of a safety factor to NOT say anything at all when asked directly

We know the person was specifically asking "will this rub" and "I don't want to modify".... yet he said nothing but this;

Ok, might I suggest you say something like this instead?

"There is a good possibility that will cause some minor rubbing, you may need to modify to make it work, especially considering that the 2009 Honda Fit tends to be even more sensitive than the 2007/2008 models when it comes to offset"

Really... I am lost for words. I just don't see why we/you can't tell people that something might be a problem!? Am I really being so unreasonable here?

 

I have to give you guys props for fast service excellent response and advice. One minute after I ordered my 215/45 16s I got a call saying I'm going to have possible rub issues. BTW my Kumhos XS on my +45 did rub a little but I just squeezed the top tab up and it was good to go. No Ethics violation in my book. Keep up the good work.

I just want to mention that our Fit bodies are so soft that polishing the fender to hard can move the fender in 1-2mms and gently pulling on the tab area can move it 1-3mm maybe even more.

 

For the record I never cited Tirerack for ethics violation; I was saying I was having an ethical crisis because I was torn between not saying anything and watching people get inaccurate information & speaking out against a sponsor.

I am not surprised they phoned you about the 215's, that would be a red flag at any tire shop. Picking up the +45 rims probably saved you a lot of major issues in this case.

It is important to remember what may seem like a minor inconvenience when you have a few people in the back seats around the city will turn into a tire destroying nightmare if you take the car on the track. Make sure it is taken care of totally before you take your car out.

 

When you write a public thread called crisis it automatically screams foul or violation as you made your contradiction in your first statement. If you pmed it that would have been cool. I just simply chimed in to say Tire Rack deserves nothing but props. If you ever dealt with them you'ld know it.

Tires are very very durable they won't blow up from a little rub and like I said a little squeeze of the top tab and it's all good!!

 

Actually in post 1 I explained the title;

In post 3 I mentioned that I have dealt with TireRack before

In all the other posts I have basically said that TireRack is a good company to buy tires from;

This entire thread is intended to highlight the fact that they are recommending incorrect sizes. Jim also mentioned they are not recommending certain fitments now so basically the thread is useful.

Finally, I already made it clear back in post 1 that I tried to flag the issue with Jim before.

If you read the posts it would have been more useful to you as well.

Also; as mentioned before what seems like a minor issue with your rubbing problem could ruin your tires in 10 minutes at the track. Durability has nothing to do with it.

 

Thanks for the dissapproval I did read through your whole thread and find your thoughts very amusing and exagerated.What happened to be strong no negative repping. I guess your the true BSer.

 

I must say....the rep system is pretty lame if this is what it comes to...

 

Roger that, but no worries now I can rip into these idiots who can't open their minds to innovation.

 

Your welcome

Actually if you read the thread you would have discovered both of your reasons for "chiming in" have no merit;

1) If you read post one, line three; the title is explained

2) From what I got out of your "Chime in" you ordered tires, they phoned and told you that they would rub and they did... they arrived at your door.

Thanks for your chime in; that part of Tireracks operation was never once in question and that was made clear. So as nice as I can say this; basically your post is useless.

This is the second go around with this person (I assume you know him personally from your local forum). He is posting mostly because of past history in another thread rather than in the spirit of helping the forum; honestly he deserved exactly what he got.