Actually, from a performance standpoint, the Fit's gears are still a bit long. For track/autox use most people(JDM owners, at least) are putting in a shorter final to shorten it even more for better torque and acceleration, hence J's Racing making 4.4 and 4.7 final gear sets (and soon, T1R here as well w/ a 4.7). It might not be quite so comfy on the street, but it'll pull better for sure.
how much r&d would have to go into getting a 6th gear in the FIT? drivetrain has to be change totally? *curious*
i admire the thoughtfulness behind all of this, but the thing is...
if you worked for honda, you would make these cars, and you would be fired.
honda makes well balanced refined efficient and economical cars. if you make the spec-r, it would bite into s2000 sales. if you made the si, it would bite into civic si sales. not saying i wouldn't love a fit with most of the things you're talking about... but for example, the torsion beam rear suspension is done for cost and weight. mcpherson struts are heavy, heavy, heavy... almost as heavy as double wishbones.
the fit competes with yaris and versa, and it blows them out of the water. you're talking about having it compete with lotus and evos- where it wouldn't do nearly as well.
About the only way to have a high-output motor without cutting subframe, or going F/I...
Destroke the L15 and bore it out, using fiber-reinforced sleeves similar to the H22A, hopefully with the end result of 1.3-1.4L and a R/S ratio of 1.65 or so. Install oversized oil pump.
Keep it SOHC, just upgrade valvetrain with stiffer springs and valves if necessary. Then complement with high-lift, long-duration cam timed to peak torque at 8000 rpm. Use 2-stage vtec from L15A7, intake lobes only.
Individual throttle bodies to common plenum and air filter. Use 2-stage fuel injection with one set of injectors in the head and another set for high rpm by the throttle plates.
Put on a better flowing cat, tune out bad harmonics, set redline at 9500, put a 5.8:1 final drive in the transmission.
"K20 please!
First, i'll admit now that i'm heavily biased towards this motor since i've had a K-swaped EK hatch and that thing was DAMN FUN! I can only imagine how much fun a K20 Fit would be. If they did do this, it'd have to have LSD or else i'll have to post another one of these rants and bitch at honda."
If you had so much fun with your k20 hatch then why did you sell it and open a thread to complain to honda who created a car that satisfies more of the masses.
I like the way you think . The available mugen fit is impressive, but really, its a lot of small, considerate changes. To create and si/type s/type r version for the fit, it would have to be, like you're saying, a series of concise changes to the engine... but comon, throw in some standard street dampers, 16'' alloys or sum, (of course) disc brakes all around, and maybe some suede seats and some other interior goodies, and you got yourself a zippy little si/type s/type r fit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by polaski
My recipe for Fit Si:
About the only way to have a high-output motor without cutting subframe, or going F/I...
Destroke the L15 and bore it out, using fiber-reinforced sleeves similar to the H22A, hopefully with the end result of 1.3-1.4L and a R/S ratio of 1.65 or so. Install oversized oil pump.
Keep it SOHC, just upgrade valvetrain with stiffer springs and valves if necessary. Then complement with high-lift, long-duration cam timed to peak torque at 8000 rpm. Use 2-stage vtec from L15A7, intake lobes only.
Individual throttle bodies to common plenum and air filter. Use 2-stage fuel injection with one set of injectors in the head and another set for high rpm by the throttle plates.
Put on a better flowing cat, tune out bad harmonics, set redline at 9500, put a 5.8:1 final drive in the transmission.
Its always nice to dream though We all want the fit to be this ferocious underestimated underdog... And with the right kind of work... And with, unfortunately, stacks of 20s i can't even see over, the fit can be a very impressive adversary against some of the top inline 4 bullies.
so yeah thats me daydreaming...
You're right though, hands down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by handsdown
i admire the thoughtfulness behind all of this, but the thing is...
if you worked for honda, you would make these cars, and you would be fired.
honda makes well balanced refined efficient and economical cars. if you make the spec-r, it would bite into s2000 sales. if you made the si, it would bite into civic si sales. not saying i wouldn't love a fit with most of the things you're talking about... but for example, the torsion beam rear suspension is done for cost and weight. mcpherson struts are heavy, heavy, heavy... almost as heavy as double wishbones.
the fit competes with yaris and versa, and it blows them out of the water. you're talking about having it compete with lotus and evos- where it wouldn't do nearly as well.
All this talk is making me excited lol Where are our Honda representatives' responses?!
... bump
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldaino
2 things i just have to say:
1. if they ever did make a type r or si fit why would it have a k20 motor? ek was mentioning it like if it was a fact, that if it were ever to come to the U.S. it would without a DOUBT have a k20. sorry. not gonna happen.
2. the reason the CIVIC type r will never make it to the U.S. is because of the mugen si. honda had their chance and they blew it. car and driver quoted honda in saying that the reason the type r would never make it here was because no one would pay 25k+ for a civic. and look what we get? a dressed up mugen civic that in most cases EXCEEDS the 30k price tag. Honda blew it with that one. You gotta realize that if they decided to bring the type r over here, AND they wanted to keep the mugen around, the type r would have to be crazy expensive. I for one would have loved a no mugen but a type r for america approach. THAT would have worked.
No getfitted dreams of an si are not far fetched....his presenation was just a little too outlandish and unreasonable. Brembo's? come on!
For all of those who comment on the suppossed 'commuter car' status of the fit...i'm sure that spoon didn't look at it that way. I kid i kid! i do understand its intended purpose...but how many old civic hatches and crx's are ripping corvette's new ones with their performance potential? No one is denying the cars roots, but the possiblities are there.
A fit si is def doable. Make it around 17.5k, rear discs, slightly bigger front discs and rotors, standard 16's with low profile tires, a unique interior with more heavily bolstered seats, a close ratio 5 speed manual, maybe, just MAYBE a limited slip as an OPTION, (if not thats ok), about a .75-1.0 inch drop, stiffer spring rates, larger anti roll bars would all be in order.
and then the engine. The most extreme engine choice that i could think of would be maybe a k18 making around 170 hp. Totally out there right? yeah pretty much, besides the k series doens't displace smaller than 2.0 litres so i doubt honda will be changing that up. So that leaves us with the l series. Keep it at 1.5 litres, make it DOHC i-vtec and we are good. Should push anywhere from 125-140 hp and rev up to about 7200 rpm. That or a 1.6 litre version making about 135-155 hp and revving up about the same would be wonderful. Weight? the fit does not weigh that much more than some of the older hatches and the suspension does fine for what it is.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is your realistic version of a fit si.
I want to be slightly more realistic, IMHO Fit Si and/or FTR should be these:
Fit Si:
1. R16 (Power: 123 bhp (125 PS, 93 kW) @ 6200 rpm Net horsepower; Torque: 15.6 kgf·m (151 N·m, 113 lbf·ft) @ 4200 rpm Net horsepower)
2. Add Rear Disc Brakes
3. 5 Spd Manual+5 Spd AutoShift (93-95 5th Gen Coupe EX (Hatchback was 5 Spd only) was available in 4spd auto as well as manual)
4. Panoramic Roof
5. HPF struts and springs standard (.075 to 1 inch drop)
6. 16" Forged light weight wheels standard.
7. 205/50/16 tires
8. Sport (non Recaro) seats
9. Racing pedals standard
10. Sport (large) diameter cat-back kit
11. Colors: Granprix White, Racing Red, Formula Green (same color as RA108 F1 car stripe color), Earth Blue and Berlina Black
Fit Type R
1. K20A3 (ala EP3 Si); 160HP@6500RPM
2. 4 Piston front and two pistons rear
3. Short-throw 6 Spd and LSD ONLY
4. Delete Magic Seats; Two bucket seats in the back instead to save weight. Seats do not fold (less mechanism=less weight)
5. Motegi tuned suspension (1.50 to 2.00 inch drop)
6. Lightweight forged 17" Rims
7. 205/45/17 HP all season tires or 215/40/17 summer UHP tires
8. Recaro front seats (it's a must!)
9. Composite body panels and interior panels.
10. Lightweight audio components; Ipod compatible audio dock or HD radio compatible dock (decent sound because we want to hear the real soundtrack instead: K20 singing at 7000RPM)
11. Racing inspired exhaust system (street legal) available; otherwise carrry over from Si
12. Front, rear and lower strut/tie bar
13. Light weight, closed gap racing pedals (heel and toe FTW, baby!)
14. Colors: Championship White, Formula Red, Racing Black.
__________________ (DAMAGED)Tidewater Blue Pearl GE8
Last edited by R35553H; 10-22-2008 at 03:38 AM.
Reason: TYPO
yea i agree with what ppl are saying.. the si/k20 engine are legendary to honda and is its bread and butter..if u put a k20 in the fit it would nip the civic si sale horribly...
buuut they should do a limited sale production like the mugen si and do it to the fit.like the fit dynamite would be badass and id buy it in a heartbeat
yea i agree with what ppl are saying.. the si/k20 engine are legendary to honda and is its bread and butter..if u put a k20 in the fit it would nip the civic si sale horribly...
buuut they should do a limited sale production like the mugen si and do it to the fit.like the fit dynamite would be badass and id buy it in a heartbeat
The thing is that the car does not even need top of the shelf K20 to be that good of a Type R. That is because when it is stripped to almost bare, the Fit has a lighter curb weight compared to EP3 or the newer Civic bodies so a little improvement goes a long way.
IMHO, the people from Honda whom are reading our forum at this moment most likely from the marketing people and not the engineering dept. Marketing wants to package a car that sells with the most amounts of profit so the bean counters can give a go. R&D and Engineering are the least people to get involve with the decision making.
__________________ (DAMAGED)Tidewater Blue Pearl GE8
In the light of my last comment, I would like to edit my last entry about Fit Si/Type R configuration.
Quote:
Fit Si:
1. Detuned R18 (Power: approx 125~130HP SAE Net; Torque: approx 115~120lb-ft) (Reason: cheaper to mass produce because they are readily available thus Honda can send Body and Chassis only to USDM and CDM for assembly without shipping and stripping the whole car)
2. Add Rear Disc Brakes (What is a performance car without a Rear Disc Brakes for better stopping power?)
3. 5 Spd Manual+5 Spd AutoShift (93-95 5th Gen Coupe EX was available in 4spd auto as well as manual); LSD Option on the 5-SPD Manual only.
4. Panoramic Roof (ala JDM Options)
5. HPF struts and springs standard (.075 to 1 inch drop)
6. 16" Forged light weight wheels standard.
7. 205/50/16 tires (wider lower profile without sacrificing much of ride quality)
8. Sport (non Recaro) seats (we need to be extra "hugged" sometimes)
9. Racing pedals standard (it is a sporty car but no sporty pedals? Come on!)
10. Sport (large) diameter cat-back kit (I want my Si sounds better than my Fit Sport)
11. Colors: Granprix White, Racing Red, Formula Green (same color as RA108 F1 car stripe color), Earth Blue and Berlina Black.
Quote:
Fit Type R
1. K20A3 (ala EP3 Si); 160HP@6500RPM (widely available engine and spareparts=cheaper to build and maintain)
2. 4 Piston front and two pistons rear (extra power needs extra braking power)
3. Short-throw 6 Spd and LSD ONLY (Yes, we do need the extra gear)
4. Delete Magic Seats; Two bucket seats in the back instead to save weight. Seats do not fold (less mechanism=less weight) (pass through in the middle should fit a bicycle and this is not your groceries run car anyway)
5. Motegi tuned suspension (1.50 to 2.00 inch drop)
6. Lightweight forged 17" Rims
7. 205/45/17 HP all season tires or 215/40/17 summer UHP tires
8. Recaro front seats (it's a must!)
9. Composite body panels and interior panels. (If you want to go further, add "Carbon Fiber Roof" to lower the center of gravity).
10. Lightweight audio components; Ipod compatible audio dock or HD radio compatible dock (decent sound because we want to hear the real soundtrack instead: K20 singing at 7000RPM)
11. Racing inspired exhaust system (street legal) available; otherwise carrry over from Si (I want my Type R to sound like...Type R)
12. Front, rear and lower strut/tie bar
13. Light weight, closed gap racing pedals (heel and toe FTW, baby!)
14. Colors: Championship White, Formula Red, Racing Black.
__________________ (DAMAGED)Tidewater Blue Pearl GE8
recipe cont.
Its always nice to dream though 
lots of good ideas
lol 
-
Linear Mode
