Hi all. I have a 2008 Fit Sport A/T with ~155K miles, and recently the power steering light came on. Power steering feels like it's still on but with reduced assist, which checks out with what the manual says (EPS could be reduced, or completely off – to me it feels like the former). It was right after I had the battery replaced (and right before a big trip) and my mechanic thought it might've been some data lost from the computer, as the code didn't make sense to him for something EPS related. The code is 21-02 Comparison Between the Vehicle Speed and the Engine Speed Signal. He cleared it, and we thought it might be a fluke.

On the first day of the trip (about a week later, though with little driving in between) the light came back on 🤦🏻‍♂️. The out-of-town mechanic I brought it to pulled up the same code, though said the battery connection was loose and maybe a power outage/spike could've knocked out some other sensor/module. Either way, he wasn't sure and didn't want to go further, suggesting I go see Honda about it.

I'm bringing it to the dealer tomorrow and will see what they say. The code doesn't match the ones outlined in the Fit service bulletins for known EPS issues I've seen, so who knows if they'll consider it covered, and I'm past the extended 10 year/150K mile point anyway (though not by much).

Anyone run into this? I see a bunch of threads about EPS in general, but none relating to the vehicle or engine speed sensors, and no mention of 21-02 either. Thanks!

 

How did it go? Did the dealer figure it out?

 

Heard back today, and they've diagnosed it as a faulty EPS unit unfortunately. I was really hoping it was a connector that was loose/worn, a broken wire, etc. but what they said checks out with the troubleshooting info here: ( TF09E00K722000R2101FAAT00 ) The service manual they used had a few additional steps so I guess it's something more recent, but they ruled out any open connections/lack of continuity between the EPS and the ECM or vehicle speed sensor. I mentioned the service bulletins (09-043, 14-058), but between the DTCs not matching and being over 150K, nothing is covered.

They quoted $1,872.41 for the EPS replacement, and because it's the dealership of course they also recommend:
$793.93 for a valve adjustment (based on age & mileage, not inspection or symptoms)
$344.12 for spark plugs (no reason given)
and suggest...
$250 for a brake fluid flush
$260 for coolant
$250 for transmission fluid (which I just had changed)

I'm out of town currently and driving about 800 miles back home soon…not feeling great about the cost to replace, or not being able to bring it back if needed. Oh boy…

 

I wouldn't bite on that repair bid just yet.

If they used HondaFitJazz's service manual as a guide then the diag is already flawed from the jump. Both the DTC description and procedures are different on their service manual versus Honda's information. There are indeed wiring differences between our US/Canada spec Fits versus the European market Jazz and Asian market Fit.

The two connectors mentioned in the service manual linked don't correlate with our cars at all to be honest. Our PCM's connector A is a 31 pin connector (their's is 49 pin) and our EPS control unit's connector C is a 2 pin connector (not a 16 pin).

Valve adjustment is plausible since its generally recommended to do every 100k as routine maintenance. You can even monitor Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor voltage readings to get an idea on how out of spec valve lash is. 0.85ish volts is normal. Once your start seeing 0.95 and higher, you'll want to adjust valves.

Brake fluid is due every 3 years because it is hygroscopic (absorbs water, can be verified with a water content tester) and coolant every 5 years or 60k miles (can be verified with a hydrometer).

ATF is a tad harder to pin down but should be blatantly obvious if you JUST replaced it... Unless the fluid wasn't replaced in nearly 100k miles before that.

As for the bulletins you mentioned... The car was well out of the coverage range before it hit 150k miles. The 10 year/150k mile warranty extension ended around July or August of 2018 since warranty of the vehicle starts the day of its new delivery date. If memory serves me right, the last new 2008s were all sold out for sure by August of 2008.. MAYBE even July.

I'd honestly have a trust worthy Honda dealership, Honda specialist shop, or independent mechanic give the car a second look over. The EPS Control Unit is still indeed a plausible point of failure but looking from the outside in, I couldn't comfortably recommend it using that service information for the wrong vehicle. The HondaFitJazz troubleshooting doesn't rule out the vehicle speed sensor, PCM or the wiring to the sensor, PCM or the EPS Control Unit.

Anywho... Just my thoughts before you bite the bullet and make an expensive choice.

 

Absolutely, I appreciate the detailed thoughts!

Oh I only meant that what they said was in line with the info I'd seen on hondafitjazz.com, i.e. engine & vehicle speed in the data list, checked the connectors, wires, & continuity between the EPS, sensors, and ECM…

Oh definitely, and I think I do need it for my car. I meant I was annoyed here since they didn't say it was recommended based on having looking at anything, rather it needed "immediate attention" based solely on the age of the car. I could've just had it done, who knows? They didn't make a point to elaborate on anything

Now this is a great tip. I'll see whether my (cheapo) scanner can read these sensors.

Totally, same complaint as above. If they tested it, then put then results in the inspection report. If they didn't, say it should be changed at whatever interval and it's recommended if it's been that long. The blind recommendations are what annoys me.

Yea, changed about 1K miles ago, but could've been the first time in a long time, or ever. (I've only owned for 3 years/10K miles). But again, no indication if they looked at it or just added it on.

The tech printed out & left the troubleshooting guide in the car for me – it is more detailed, has different connectors shown, does account for testing the VSS & wiring amongst various modules & sensors. I believe their assessment is right, though it looks like a pretty easy job to swap the module and I'm planning to give it a shot once I get back home. For the rest of the stuff, I'll happily give my local, trusted mechanic the job (valves, brake fluid) or do it myself (spark plugs, or ignition coils which are curiously absent from their suggestions)

Thanks again!

 

Providing an update here...

I replaced the EPS with a used module from LKQ...the power steering light went off when the car was started, power steering was fully restored (you can tell the difference between it being stiff but functional with reduced assist vs. full assist), and the light came back on during the first drive!

I then replaced it again with a second unit. Same thing! At this point I'm fairly convinced it's not the EPS unit and there's some other condition causing it to go into that state.

 

Sometimes it good to eliminate what it's not. What year is the car? I noticed that you are from new york. Cars can tend to get pretty rusty and crusty over there. You might want to go back to basics and start checking all of your ground points and checking if any wires or connectors have signs of corrosion or water damage. Start with the basics and see where that gets you.

 

It's a 2008, though according to car records it spent 6 years in California, then 5 in Massachusetts, and now 3 in New York. But I guess 8 years is enough

When the dealer was troubleshooting, they did check for loose or broken connections, and shorts between various connector pins. I have a printout the tech used and marked up if you're curious or there's any useful info in there. But I'm not sure what to look at given their work, and knowing that I again replaced the EPS and firmly seated the connectors. Also my understanding is the wires between the EPS and the PCM/ECU (which is in the glovebox I believe) are all inside the car? (i.e. shouldn't get water damage or be exposed to the elements)

 

I'm not too familiar with this model year Fit so I can't say for sure if the wires are located inside the cabin. Do you have a sun roof? That is a common way for water intrusion inside of vehicles. It's not impossible for water and corrosion to find it's way inside the vehicle.

I know that on my GK5 there are ground wires near the fuse box inside the car, ground wires for the engine near the washer fluid reservoir and there are ground wires behind the bumper. I don't know if they checked any fuses but I would check all the fuses as well as all the grounding cables.

I wish I had the car in front of me I would be a lot more useful

As you begin to eliminate things this is what I see the the remaining possbile issues could be: ECU, EPS Motor, wires, connections and grounds. I don't have a wiring diagram with me but these connections can tie into many different places. If you take it to the dealer they would probably want to drop the subframe and put a new power steering rack in there. If you are short on cash you can live without power steering. That's pretty much all I've got. Tell me if you have any more questions.