Well.. think about that one for a second...

The mods are in fact permanent yes, but on our Fits the gains will get dialed back.

You also have to consider that in changing the VE, which is the whole point of I/H/E mods, you are going to be shifting your power curve and changing the fluid velocity through the pipes both intake and exhaust.

So if you drop intake air velocity with a larger diameter tube on a CAI (assuming you have a GE with a MAF) you will have done two things to actually hurt performance.

The first is that the MAF is calibrated to a specific diameter of tube. The hot film on the MAF gives off a Hz reading that is directly related to a given mass flow for a specific tube diameter and length that is corrected for temp and barometric changes.

Altering this in any appreciable way without a way to recalibrate the MAF to the new tube will make for erroneous readings and in some cases can even cause harm instead of just poor performance.

The other issue with some CAI's is the way that the bigger diameter tube results in a drop in flow velocity. This directly impacts cylinder filling and at the very least low end power (torque) will suffer because you have shifted your VE to the right.

Now another thing to consider is that HP is derived from torque, so if you hurt your torque output (which directly corresponds with VE if you compare VE to a dyno graph) you have directly hurt your HP for that section of the power band.

And that is just for the CAI!

This will hurt the streetability of the car, especially as a DD because very rarely do you get to wind out to redline, and more often than not you just want a little extra passing power.

Now exhaust mods are another losing proposition more often than not for a DD, unless you really like the noise.

A bigger diameter pipe on the exhaust side will result in less backpressure, which will also adversely affect torque production down low.

So you should consider matching your mods to your goals.

Do you want all your power up top? All low end grunt?

Or across a wide range?

Just slapping on parts in the quest for power will more often than not yield an unhappy owner who has now spent a lot of money for little to no gain, and often with detrimental results.

Food for thought.

It's not about the best parts, its about the right parts in the right combination.

I consider fuel one of the MOST important parts, and on an EFI engine like ours in terms of $/hp, the 5-10* spark advance you get from better fuel alone will let you outstrip someone with a CAI/Header/Full Exhaust.

 

You dont save using 87, if you look at the hondata knock tables it shows that there is more timing at lower rpm due to a richer mixture and that the full throttle timing is lower producing less power. MBT is the least amount of timing through out the power band because the fuel burns more efficient. Also there is more total timing at full throttle. So if you said any more octane than MBT timing would be a waste I would agree but that still doesn't mean higher octane than MBT would not have some benefits.

Higher octane usually is a denser fuel which mean less fuel is need to achieve lambda. Plus premium has about 2 percent more energy than regular and the rest mpg is from less knock retard which adds up to about 5-10 percent better mpg. There is other benefits too like faster starts, smoother shift in an auto trans and the higher heat required to vaporize the fuel cools the air meaning a denser mixture, like adding a 10 horsepower shot of nitrous.

 

Thank you Texas!
I'm more and more convinced that this sport cat might not exactly be my cup of tea... If the cat burns less, more oxygen should be detected (lean), so the ECU would have good reason to add more fuel...

 

Hmm, very interesting. Going to fill up with 93 next time I need to and compare my average MPG. Paying 3.61 for 87, and I think 93 is 3.87ish or so.

 

I just paid 4.34 for BP premium and already my car runs better. Cooler, better throttle response with out going to 6000 rpm and better mpg. I used 2 tanks of generic premium and had problems and 34 mpg from ethanol blend gas to 37 BP and expect to get 40 plus average this summer. Here is a good link to show how knock retard works. http://cu-ocw.eng.chula.ac.th/cu/eng...COMBUSTION.pdf .

I realized that as the car burns more fuel the timing will be higher at low rpms and that stock knock is usually 1 percent below MBT. It might not seem like its a lot but over the rpm band its a lot. I see MBT timing and full throttle 28 degrees total timing but 22 with regular. Honda also has a high turbulence head so the in the graphs 100 ron octane is the MBT at lambda at 10 to 1compression and that running 98 ron, there is a few miles per tank to be had. Fuel trims are pulling alot of fuel but it was very humid and 92 IAT.

I hope you see the results I do and see that all premiums are not the same. Name brands seem to be better and probably have a friction modifier in them too.

 

I just finished my tank of 93 premium from mobil. Cost me 4.05 per gallon, and I averaged 36.3 mpg. This equates to 11.15 cents per mile.

With 87 octane paying 3.59 per gallon I averaged 32.9 mpg. This equates to 10.91 cents a mile.


Going to do more tests, but it would seem like the higher octane gas may be worth the extra money -- only a QUARTER OF A CENT difference per mile, and lots of other performance upgrades.

Going to do this again a couple of times with different fuels to see what the numbers say.

 

I noticed that the price went up too. Normally its only 24 cents more but I noticed that it was 39 cents more. Its close to 5 dollars in down town Chicago. Prices better come down soon or else the country will go into a depression.

Remember when trying different fuels that there is still some of the premium still in there and it takes a few tanks before mpg really drops but performance will be felt right away. Maybe alternating fuels when it gets down to half a tank will save more money in the long run until prices stabilize.

 

Has anyone put the Fit on a dyno with a regular vs premium?

These threads are always a bit of a head-scratcher for me - who buys a Fit if they aren't cool with it being a slow car? Then they screw around with minutia like axle-back exhaust and replacement air filters, only to find that the ECU detunes the car for economy.

If you want the Fit to be fast, you're going to spend a LOT of money. If you want it to be a little bit quicker, you're still going to blow a good chunk of change. If you go forced induction, you'll lose fuel economy as well as money; why not just spend the extra money up front, and if you finance it, pay a bit more for your payment each month and have an actual powerful engine rather than blowing money on "maybe-it'll-works." Drop $5000 working on a $17,000 Fit, and you could have a $22,000 Mustang... even the V6 'Stangs come from the factory with 300+ horsepower these days.

But that's just me. Carry-on.

 

Lyon boosted his GE for ~$1100.

My GD will be boosted and running for less than $900 and I aim to make 250whp. For less than $1200, I am looking to approach 300whp when all is said and done. Though this may be pushing the limits of the stock rotating assembly. We shall see though.

Even then... just need to upgrade the twig-like con rods and maybe the pistons. Either 250 or 300whp in a Fit makes for a power/weight ratio far better than that of even the 2011 V6 Mustang. For far cheaper.

Lets say the 3.7L 2011 Mustang only suffers 15% drivetrain loss, he only has 255whp hitting the ground in a 3600lb car.

Thats 14.1lbs/whp. The 5.0L using the same 15% figure would be getting about 350whp to the ground, so about 10.2lbs/whp.

A 250whp/2500lb Fit is making 10lbs/whp, or the same as a 5.0L Mustang.

A 300whp Fit is looking at 8.3lbs/whp.

That is Corvette C6 and Lotus Exige territory. For ~$1200 more than a Fit Sport.

Not too mention that I can actually have passengers while towing a 16ft' aluminum outboard boat. I'll still be able to get 40mpg unloaded when commuting too.

Never seen a Mustang do that.

So far 1/3 of my budget was just for MNFit's used AEM FIC. Everything else is sorted except for a set of injectors and a UEGO. I did my downpipe, manifold, gaskets, and oil/coolant lines for $250. Part of that $250 deal transaction included a T3 flanged GT25.

It's all about picking the right mods. Not just throwing money at it.

 

Is it just me, or is there a lot of trolling on this site?

If you think its dumb for people to mod a Fit, then why waste your time on a forum that is made for those people?

IMO, thats a waste of your time.

 

I didn't want it to be FAST, I mostly just wanted some more acceleration for on ramps, and a little bit more power for hills. It looks like lightwieght performance tires are all I really need. I'm not looking to get the honda fit up to 200HP and race it. I just wanted a little bit more performance out of my econo-box.

 

Not to keep this going, cause it's been covered by several threads in the past, but I think in summation, the Fit does things that no other car does in one package. If you want to talk about performance to go along with all that, then the handling of the car is what is special about it for enthusiasts.

So, with a few suspension mods, we have a car that will hand many sports cars their ass in the turns, so what is wrong with then being able to power out of those turns with a few more hp and an increased response of the engine?

I know their is a lot of engineering and logic behind the true tuning results that may come of intakes and exhausts, but I'm not convinced they do nothing. I have been running a k&N filter with the leaf-access panel on the intake removed for months now. Then just the other day, I put the cover back on for kicks, and the car was more sluggish. It may have adjusted itself by now, but it's spongier now on the throttle and I feel that low end torque is not quite as there. I've got a pretty good butt dyno.

 

I've been around here long enough to have established myself as "not-a-troll" It's a serious question... it would be like if someone came on here asking how to increase cargo capacity. More than a few people asked me why I bought the Fit when the interior was so uncomfortable, and honestly, I didn't realize until after I drove it for a few months that it was going to be such a pain in the legs and back. But acceleration figures... you can look those up in any magazine.

Now, top it off with the Fit's ECU swallowing every stage 1 MOD people do to it, (and few people on here go beyond Stage 1 modifications... I haven't heard of many folks boring out their cylinders to gain displacement ... it's mostly intakes, exhaust, and other such cheap modifications, followed by a bewildered thread a few months later about how the ECU just adapted it all away.)

Forced induction is another story, but forced induction is just a way to get more displacement, and more displacement usually means poorer fuel economy.

DSM's Fit hauling a 16 ft boat is a scary thought... I don't like towing with a short-wheelbase vehicle; one strong side wind, and even if you stay on the road, it's off the change the undies!

 

The best thing to do is sell it and get a 5 speed.

 

FWIW, Occam, I know you are not a troll.. and the boat weighs less than I do

I also mount it with the engine removed and lying bolted low in the center of the trailer frame, with the boat inverted over it like an airstream trailer. the keel line is lower then the H symbol on the hatch in this configuration.

And you are half-right on FI vs. fuel consumption.

The half that is correct is that I will have poor economy figures under boost, but outside of boost it is still a 1.5L engine. So the majority of the time I will have stock fuel consumption.

I get 28mpg combined in my cammed/bored 2.0T Laser just cruising in town and on the highway. But I get ~4mpg under +35psi on a 59mm turbo.

The other fun bit about that is I can actually run slightly leaner in cruise when I have the ability to tune all the cells myself.

This means I can return better mileage by tweaking the DA tables and still have more power when I put my foot down.

As far as a bore, Two of the three blocks I have for my Laser are bored, including the one in the car. But like the Fit there's just not a whole lot of meat between the bores and the water jackets and oil galleys so I can go more than .060" over if I wanted. Which I don't because I like to make lots of cylinder pressure, and then bores do not like that.

The L15A is the same way. A very mild bore and a bigger stroke would be the way to go. But we don't have the best r/s ratio to begin with... so boost it is!

 

Obviously, anyone expecting huge gains from an exhaust or intake on a naturally aspirated 1.5L is going to be dissapointed. Hell, thats in any modern NA engine for that matter. There will be minimal gains, but they are really more for sound and astetics on a NA Fit. At the same time, telling people that adding forced induction is the only "real" mod, is an elitist attitude, and completely false.

I've done the whole building and boosting a car that wasn't meant to be, and while building it was fun, it made the car completely impractical for everyday use. Especially where I live.

My point is, to each their own. Just because you would only bother doing mods that make large gains, doesn't mean everyone else thinks that way. Some of us are just interested in some small changes to personalize out rides.

 

Gentlemen be nice and appreciate what the other person has to say. It would be a good thing to respect each other's thoughts here.
Rodney King " Can't we just get along here?"

Big Mike

 

Now If ya really what sum mo power try "poppa's recipe" go to Wal-Mart and get ya a big 'ol box of mothballs, Nathalene, a 32oz. gator aid bottle, 1 gallon of WD-40, and cheap fuel injector cleaner-stp. fill the bottlle w/ mothballs, 8oz. of cleaner & 8oz. of wd40 and let set up for 7 days. pour 1oz per gallon of hi test and the mpg is better and the aceleration pulls harder. I've used it for 25k in my Fit and would not run a tank w/o "Poppa's Receipe" in it. Yeeeeha!


PS don't let your dog drink it ............... Moonpie was under them sawhorses fer a week bfor he cum outta dare!

Big Mike

 

Schoat333, i wouldnt say dsm is being some kind of elitist. he is just biased thats all. he is a boost guy and he prefers his method of increase in power the way he knows best which is boost by turbo.

he is not knocking on NA tuning. all he is stating is the fit has a way of neutralizing any and all gains from bolt ons due to the ecm programming.

though dsm speaks some truth i wouldnt say all gains are lost because my i can feel my fit has better response with my added bolt ons(mainly sri and ik22).

 

The b16a is a prime example of a good base for N/A power. Cams, head porting and headers with a good tune. 200 wheel hp is easy. It also revs to 9000 rpm's and the L1.5 motor is not capable of that so the best way is to Turbo. Ive seen B18 tricked out running 11.7 seconds all motor in a Civic. Ive also seen a stock K20 running 20 pounds of boost in a Acura Integra running 11.6. Its all about the set up and tune.