Thanks Steve and Casual. I'll try some amount in the middle, maybe 2-3 bottles.

 

10 years later, 150K, the Fit has moved on to a new generation. Son that is. He sent me a glamour shot the other day:


He graduated college and after a Miata, and a fugly truck, he really wanted a Fit. He's a bit odd.

Some more odds and end along the way to 150K:

• 107K plugs changed valves adjusted by MM. Minor blowby on plug 4. Torqued to factory specs (that have since changed, read up on it). Minor adjustment to valves. They make some noise when cold but after warming up the solid lifters expand and it quiets down.
• 2nd A/C charge needed around 138K (this is about every 4 years at this rate).
• Door latches, remote lock actuators, started failing around 130K. Eventually replaced all 5. This is pricey even if you do it yourself.
• Starter is making annoying noise when below freezing. Have one in stock to throw on with my son when he comes to visit someday.

Look for my son here (if he's not too embarrassed).

What am I driving? I got a 2015 Leaf. Cheap. Comfortable. Perfect commuter pod for commutes less than 30 miles. I miss the Fit. He better treat it right.

 

Cool update!

Great to hear your son is keeping the Fit going.

 

[QUOTE=Steve244;1113274]



Graphic pictures follow:


[/QUO



TE]


Placing car on four jack stands simulataneously is a dangerous practice. Only two jack stands on either front or back of car (never on same side) should be used simultaneously. Reason is obvious, no?

 

As long as it's level, I would trust four stands more than two.

 

But, alas, you'd be wrong. Look, I don't have the time to explain all this to you in detail but in the interest of your health and others here it is indisputable that using four jack stands, one on each corner, is a dangerous proposition, especially if you are under the car torquing on various fasteners. First of all, garage concrete floors are not perfectly level so as a matter of fact only two jack stands of the four will be bearing most of the weight of the car (jack stands are solid, stiff objects with no suspension to "take up" even small variances in surfaces that are not level). Secondly, ask yourself a question, what is more stable a car resting on its wheels/tires or one on sticks with a small base? In fact, many folks who think through the risks of getting under a car supported by jack stands (even if used on one end of the car only), use a back up such as tire rims placed under the frame rails in the event the car is jostled off the jack stand or the jack stand otherwise fails to support car.

 

Good intelligence here. I'm not an expert so thanks for this reminder @FTBT .

For low consequence activities, reducing risk does not matter so much. For death consequence activities, we really need to eliminate all risks or eliminate the activity.

I think if just 1 of 4 jacks fails, there is no redundancy. It doesn't take much of a weight shift to move a jack or stand, just torqueing a bolt is enough.

Do we trust the chinesium jack stands?

Also we are relying on a high-quality concrete pour under each leg of each jack. We don't know the thickness of the concrete, if the concrete was properly prepared, if the soil was properly prepared or if anything has been eroded, etc. Concrete is very delicate outside limited design specs.

From basic physics class, I suspect when jacking up just one side, additional weight is transferred to the two tires on the floor, reducing the load on the jacks and those jacking points. Although the suspension and other factors come into play.

My friends jack up only two wheels, use a lot of redundant devices like big wheels, big logs, jacks, etc. All my mechanic buddies are 100% safety first and take zero chances.

EDIT - This is NOT a criticism of anyone so thanks to everyone for great photos and stories. Safety is a great discussion topic for everyone. Jack safety is an area we all need to study and continuously learn and refresh.

 

Ditto .

 

I'm going to overlook the fact that your tone makes you sound like yet another "Internet expert." Tone is easy to get wrong in digital media.

Working on cars can be dangerous. However, I've seen more cars slip off of two jackstands rather than four. That said, once the car is on jackstands, putting a tire rim or a cinder block in a strategic place is not a bad precautionary measure. But I live in earthquake country.

I see nothing wrong with Steve's method of doing things. The much greater risk is when people forego jackstands altogether and simply rely on a floor jack or, even worse, the jack that came with the car.

 

That's damn nice of you (I guess you overlooked my "Ditto" comment, huh?).

Nonsense statistic even if true (which is quite doubtful otherwise you'd be cautioning against the use of jack stands generally) as most people only use two jack stands at once.

Using a cinder block is also a poor idea as a dropped load on a cinder block will often cause it to crumble/break apart.

It may be true that you see nothing wrong but nonetheless it's a dangerous practice especially if one goes under the car. As to the comparison to using a floor jack or the car's jack, that's just silly absurd as these practices are downright reckless and obviously should not be the standard by which alternative means of elevating car should be judged.

This is serious business. Hence my commentary is no nonsense and direct. I'd hate to see anyone here hurt themselves or worse by engaging in unsafe practices. If that rubs you the wrong way so be it.

 

All great points and not something that everyone would think about. I don't see an issue with using 4 jack stands but I get the idea behind using only 2 at a time. Once the car is supported you are suppose to give it a good shove (at least that is what I was taught) so that if the vehicle does rock some it will remain safe. I will even hit the base of the jack stand a little to make sure it is secure.

Unless I am removing the wheels I always use ramps. I much prefer to work under them then jack stands. If the car is supported with jack stands, wheels are chocked and there is a back up jack stand, and the floor jack around the area I am working.

 

On the issue of 4 stands versus 2, if you need four wheels off the ground, i.e. rotating tires while swapping sides, 2 stands are not an option.

2 stands are not inherently safer than 4:

• The stands are designed for downward force, not from the side. Using 2, the car's angle will mean some sideways force on the stands reducing the stands' capacity as well as increasing the possibility of toppling.
• Even with properly blocked wheels, there is some give from the rubber. Movement is more likely with two tires on the ground than 4 jack stands.

The forces involved with 2 stands and the inherent instability having the car at the angle with two points resting on soft rubber, make me a bit queasy thinking about getting under to remove the oil drain plug.

With 4 stands, at least 3 will be taking most of the weight, (not 2) unless you take care to raise the car on a level concrete surface (never gravel or asphalt), or adjust the stands to the surface. If one of the stands makes contact after the other, watch to make sure the car settles completely. If not adjust the stands. Cars are not rigid (unless you've installed a racing backbone suspension tweak on your fit). The car will rest securely on 4 stands.

Cinder blocks are frowned on for support. A good karate chop will break these. For backup support, sure, slide one of the wheels underneath. I leave the floor jack in place as a backup.

I haven't found any recommendation for 2 stands only, but don't take my word for it; google it. In the meantime here is a comprehensive guide for raising and working under a car: 10 Commandments for Putting a Car on Jack Stands

 

Thanks for the detailed post @Steve244 .

Cinder or concrete blocks also scare me as they are built to a price and for a different purpose. Sometimes they are very strong and sometimes they are very delicate.

 

Nonsense. You can lead a horse to water . . .

Are you aware that some manufacturers of jack stands specifically direct users to use only one pair at a time? Why do you suppose that's so? Could it be that their engineers (and lawyers) know that that results in a more stable situation? As to the number of jack stands bearing most of the weight in the event surface is not level, the answer is two not three -- hint think of four legged tables that rock, they rock diagonally; also note that the base of a tripod, an inherently stable base, forms an equilateral triangle not the right triangle associated with jack stands on an unlevel surface.

Go ahead and put your car up on four jack stands, get underneath car and start torquing away. See how many times you can do that before you become an example of Darwinism. And don't forget to send us the video so we know that you put your money where your mouth is.

I wouldn't get under a car supported with only two jack stands unless there were bullet proof back up devices in place. Anyone who gets under a car supported by four jack stands is nuts.

 

The lawyer makes that decision. With only 2 jack stands to worry about there is less liability.

Yes tables that are not designed well and a none rocking table with jack stand bases would be even more stable. (on a level surface). A great reason to buy good jack stands.

No one ever said that they would do any of this on a none level surface that is just silly.

This is why you check the stability, this can happen with any number of jack stads. I used 6Ton wide base stands for the Fit.

If he was just rotating tires then he would not need to get under it. If done correctly I wouldn't hestitate to get under a car with four jack stands.

 

I suspect product liability and ASME PASE-2014 (American Society of Mechanical Engineers, Portable Automotive Support Equipment document 2014 available for $169.00 digital) has lead to packaging and specifications for jack stands sold only in pairs.

It doesn't appear single stands are sold any more. Part of this is to remove ambiguity about the load rating (is 3 tons for a single stand for a total of 6 tons, or for a pair of stands total of 3 tons? And what would it be for 2 pairs?!!!). Prior to 2010, from what I've read, there was no standard.

Instructions are still ambiguous as to their use. Here is the bit from mine, purchased from Harbor Freight (highlights mine):


I take this to mean these should be only be used in pairs to support only one end of the vehicle per pair. Item 4 suggests the Chinese tech writing hacks at harbor freight agree.

US JACK seems a nice American company, but their text is still ambiguous as it calls for them to be used in pairs (note plural use of pair) for supporting a single end of a vehicle. Call me nuts, but this could be taken to mean you shouldn't use a single pair to support both ends of a vehicle. Yes, you'd have to be an idiot to support both ends with one pair:



That brings me to the Omega line of jack stands. Their tech writers (and lawyers) are unambiguous:

I understand why you would want to follow manufacturer's safety recommendations, FTBT. Maybe you would post the instructions from your stands.

To add to what GolNat said above: a car is not a table. Weight distribution is not 50/50 (I think it's something like 80/20 on our fits). It doesn't tilt back and forth on two stands at corners on opposite sides. It's not rigid. Me, I'll continue to lift both ends of my cars when I see fit. Yes, it's cheap insurance to slide a wheel under the car near where you're working, or leave the floor jack in place.

 

The information you have posted is not really ambiguous.

AND I stand by my prior comments and analysis: Anyone who goes under a car supported (only) by jack stands is a MORON. Of course, my IQ is over four standard deviations above the mean so I see this as an obvious truth. And let me add that those who understand the stupidity of getting under a car supported as described in my second sentence but nonetheless say it's OK (but would never do it themselves) because they just can not admit to being WRONG, are unconscionable petty little human beings who have blood on their hands to the extent anyone follows their advice and is injured or killed in so doing.

 

Ain't the internet great.
Ask a question. Get lots of answers. Many just bs.
If you don't feel safe under a car on 4 "quality" stands, you shouldn't do it.
You probably shouldn't be doing any work on a car.
Going under a car with just a jack is crazy.
Before I retired from Auto repair, anyone I found under a car without stands, lost his job.