I said no more posts here, but I feel I should reply. Not a problem we all make some errors. Apology accepted.
It may be my turn next. Have a good day.


Clifton

 

perhaps you didn't consider drilling the back plate to hub plate. and grinding the weld.
shimming the plates properly will correct the camber and caster but that corrction long long ago published is tedious and requires lots of math and sometimes doing it more than once.
whats the pity is honda refuses o correct the fabrication quality; they say its not important. and in most cases thats right. it takes a lot of te variation to at least equalize even if not in spec.

 

That is exactly what I am planning to do. Looking at the diagrams it appears that the only difference between the two assemblies (2008 and 2011) is one holding screw which Honda changed to a weld. The spindle is really clamped and held in place by the 4 bolts that hold the spindle and the backing plate.

I'm a little busy today and tomorrow cleaning up 14-16 inches of new snow, but as soon as I get a chance I'm going to pull the wheel and drum and verify that I can indeed just grind the weld to get it apart. I have several shims here and I'll insert what I think it needs. Then and check the camber with my camber gage and do the toe with straight edges. If it looks good I'll take to an alignment rack to more closely fine tune it.

That is the plan at the moment. I'll let you know what I finally do.

Honda never planned for this to be adjustable. The shims are all after market. Honda does not offer them, but if it turns out that it is a simple matter of grinding a couple of welds, inserting some shims, and reassembling, then we need to get the information out to people. I also plan to stop by the local frame shop to see what he says about just bending it into place. This most recent snow and the fact the car is being used every day has slowed me down a bit on getting this done.

Thanks for the posting.

 

forget bending.
grinding the welds and if needed drilling for the bolts if not there already.
grind the welds.
the thickness of the shims, or washers, must be calculated you must change the fore and aft ane up and down shims to bring the camber and toe in line; bolt them up and set the car down, even drive it a bit and remeasure toe and camber, adjust again if necessary. because the thicknesses on the washers on the bolts is so precisely neededyou'll need micrometers and excellent trig skills. the hieght and width between both verticaland horizontal is so much less than the chabge at tire cicumference its tough.
it is tedious and time consuming. we've had to do it as many as three times to get it riight just on one side. AFTER making sure the axle was square with the chassis. that means adjusting the yoke, sometimes on both sides thru which bolt 2 passes to fix the axle placement, not the hinge itself.
in passing, more often than not just squaring the axle was enough to eliminate drifting of any significant amount. we've also been told that just adjusting the hinges with washers also has sgifted the axle angle enough to square up the axle with the chassis but I can't verify tho it could certasinly do that. adding to one side and suhtracting the other will cause the axle to rotate thus squaring end plates to the chassis. it does mean didling with the yoke and hinge.
good luck.
ps you can grind washers to the desired thickness if you don't have access to shim stock. thats likely the best for rotating (squaring)the axle to the chassis. Without good math and measuring skills its the technique think is best.
good luck. you'll need it in cold snow ambient.

 

I have the pre-calibrated shims from Moog. They come in 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and 1 degree thicknesses. I can also get 1.5 degree ones. By rotating their mounting position you can change the toe, camber, or both with each shim. This makes it much easier than calculating and grinding shim washers and they were only $2.86 each. Adjusting the mounting of the beam will not solve my immediate problem because the wheels are toed out in relationship to each other (not the car body). Once I get them parallel to each other (actually 1 degree towed in), then I can look at shimming the mounting of the beam if necessary to parallel the pair of wheels to the body.

Thanks again for your input.

 

interesting. we had to use washers of different thicknesses on each bolt to get correct camber and toe. I suspect the Moog shims are for camber only.
The reason for recommending squaring the axle first will bring the toe to at least close to equal on each side; that makes shimming the hub for camber easier but in at least one case that was all that was needed to get decent tracking, best camber for cornering no but last time we did it t cost 11.5 manhours to fix. expensive but if you do it yourself.
Do you have good accurate gauges to measure toe and camber?
sorry about harassingyou but having done that 3 times just trying to help.

 

I have Moog brand shims but here is a similar shim by Specialty Products out of Longmont Colorado.

Specialty Products EZSHIM Calculator

Specialty Products Company | SPC Alignment | The Automotive Alignment Leaders

You can use either the red or yellow size on a FIT. I do not have this brand. I have Moog but the design and position selection process is the same. Just determine the rotational position needed for your amount of correction. Then snap out the appropriate tabs to allow the 4 mounting bolts to go through it and assemble everything.

I'm using a my Longacre Camber/caster gauge for the camber measurement and I'm using using straight edges across the spindles with tape measures for the toe.

I also have a floor mounted toe measurement stick that can be used if the tires are mounted.

I'll get it as close as possible and then take it to my friends foreign car business and put it on a regular alignment rack for a final check.

 

Before you took your measurements, did you check that the wheels ran true? Is it possible you measured distortion in the wheels rather than alignment issues?

 

Yes I did and I used 2 different set of wheels. I have a second set of brand new steel wheels with snow tires on them. I also ran the camber checks with the wheels in 4 different positions 90 degrees rotation a part. Also them came out -3 degrees. The spec is 0 to -2.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Well we finally got around to fixing this problem. I have a retired GM friend in Michigan who has access to a state of the art frame / and fabrication shop. We pulled the rear beam assembly and I took it up there. He put it on this machine and measured both the camber and toe. He also measured it for twist meaning the right or left side spindle higher than the other one. It was determined the all corrections needed to be done on the right side only. So using the machine he straightened (bent) the right camber back to the center of the Honda spec (-1). The left side was close to -1 so we left it alone In correcting the camber he also corrected some of the toe out problem. He measured the spindles in relation to the front pivots (mounting points). Then he bent the right side only to finish correcting the toe out problem. There had been a small amount of twist before we started but after correcting the camber and toe, the twist was with 1/32" so we left that alone. In total it took him less the 1/2 hour to straighten out the assembly. I did a quick check with my camber gage while it was still on the table but no longer attached to the machine. It confirmed that the camber was what the machine had read. I did not verify the toe readings.

It was late and the shop was closed so we got out of there and I took my friend to dinner as payment for his work.

The next day I returned to Indiana with the part. My daughter reinstalled the rear beam assembly that evening after work. I can not lift it as I'm under a 10 pound lifting restriction by my doctor. She had to do it alone. It probably weighs around 75 pounds so she used a transmission jack to hold it in place while inserting the two pivot bolts. When she was done before she reinstalled the wheels, I checked the camber and it was right on. She will check the camber and toe after she has put a few thousand miles on it. She will probably do it the next time she changes oil.

All it all it was not a bad job labor wise. It took her about 45 minutes to get it off the car and 1.5 hours to reinstall it. It took longer to bleed the brakes than anything else She was doing this on a 2 post hoist with air tools at another friends house rather than laying on a concrete pad. Our friend with the hoist was around for about 10 minutes to help lift it into place and then had to go to work.

We still have no idea how it got bent. There was no signs of any other damage anywhere else on the car. If had to be a big pot hole somewhere.

 

Outstanding. I would not be surprised that it was bent in initial assembly. Its not done on really precise fixtures.
not as good as the MI shop I bet.
And she and my daughter would have a good time together.