My engine started making a rattling noise about a month or so ago while driving on the freeway. I checked the oil level and was able to add 3 quarts, so I guess there was about a quart of oil in the engine at the time the noise started. This was about 9 months after the last service/oil change at the dealer. There were no warnings or indications that the oil level was low, and I am not in the habit of periodically checking the dipstick, since I just do what the maintenance minder tells me…

I took it in to the dealer to have it checked out and they said the rattling is coming from the lower end of the engine and their recommendation was to replace the engine, as it would cost more to dismantle/diagnose/repair the problem than it would to replace it with a refurbished engine ($3700). They also did not find evidence of any oil leak.

I continued driving for a couple weeks and at the end of my commute this past monday morning, the noise became extremely loud and eventually there was a loud crunching noise and the engine stopped.

My questions are:

Does anyone have any idea what may have contributed to the failure?

Is less than a quart of oil too little for the engine to operate properly?

Should I have expected to burn 3 quarts of oil in the nine months since the car was last serviced?

Should I have seen some kind of indicator or warning that the oil level was less than a quart?

Any recommendation for specific questions to ask the service dept. when I have it towed back?

Should I go with their recommendation to replace the engine with a refurbished engine?

After this happened, I found out about the recall to replace the lost motion spring, but my VIN does not seem to be included. Does this seem like something that could be caused by a broken lost motion spring?


I appreciate any help or advice, thanks!

 

Sorry to hear about your Fit. That really sucks. It makes no sense how you can lose 3 quarts of oil and have no leak. Did they show you under your engine that there are no oil leaks? Did you look at your drive way where u park and look for oil puddles? stains? Did you check your dipstick when you last had an oil change? Maybe they only put in 1 quart. Did they do another oil change when u went there to get diagnosed? I bet there were alot of metal fragments in that 1 quart of oil left and continued to do damage even if u added 3 quarts.

Fact of the matter is you ran the engine for however long below the required 4 quarts and at 1 quart which is not enough to lubricate the insides of your engine. This caused your engine failure with all kinds of shit broken, cracked, fragments/debris flying around inside. I bet even if they tried to diagnose the problem inside the engine, most likely you'll have to replace everything anyway, essentially a new engine. You have no choice. As far ask getting a refurb, price out a new one.

good luck!

 

It sounds like they didn't refill the engine oil at the last dealer service. Don't know why you didn't get a warning light, however.

Am I missing something?

 

I believe in the previous service the staff forgot to add all the necessary oil because at your mileage the oil consumption can't be so high.

On the otherhand you should have not driven the car with such a noise and get it serviced straight away. This would have avoided such a big costly damage.

Refurbished engine can be an excellent deal if you know the company. Some companies are very skilled and take the engines back to their original conditions at 60% of the price of the new engine, others have much less reliable reputation at leat this is how it is in Italy.... so it is better to know the supplier. Refurbished engines come with a warranty.

 

I'll be a little more specific about the engine noise: It started after driving for 15 minutes or so at high speed. It sounded more like an internal part tapping the inside of the engine with each revolution, and not like a loose piece of metal rattling around inside. It was loudest at light acceleration, maybe 1-10% throttle, then diminished with more throttle, then became louder again when approaching about 5k rpm (iirc).

I suppose it's possible they forgot to add oil during the last service, not sure how I would be able to verify this though. I didn't check the dipstick afterwards. I will take a look at the documents. Anyone have any personal experience at Honda of Oakland?

When I brought it in after hearing the noise, they did not do an oil change and I didn't ask them to show me that there were no leaks. I haven't ever seen any oil drips or puddles/stains where I park my car in my driveway or on the curb, so I tend to believe them when they say they did not find a leak. Would it be possible to burn 3 quarts of oil over nine months if I spent a considerable amount of time in the high-rpm range on a daily basis?

At what point should the engine oil light come on? Is it possible the engine oil monitoring system is faulty?

I did actually take the car in shortly after the noise started, within a couple days I think. When they recommended the engine replacement I asked if it was safe to drive, and they told me it might eventually cause damage to other components. I took the car back because I wanted time to think about it, needed a car to drive, am considering purchasing a larger car soon (new addition to the family) and wasn't sure if it was worth it to replace the engine before selling or trading it in. I also did not get the impression from the service staff that an engine failure was imminent.


Thanks again for the feedback!

 

How many miles since the oil was changed? It's hard to believe a car owner would drive a car 9 months without checking the oil level. I'm almost sure your owners manual reminds you to check the oil level on a regular bases because you may run lots of miles before the maintenance minder tells you it should be changed.

If the dealer didn't fill it you would have experienced problems much sooner, there isn't a quart of oil left in the sump after it's drained. There is no warning system for low oil, only your dip stick.

Sorry, I feel for you but I have to blame the driver, not the dealer on this one.


Clifton

 

my wife NEVER checks the oil nor the washer fluid levels on her own, so i suppose this could happen if there is no car person in the family..

u'd trust the dealer to do the work, and rely on the maintenance reminder. so can't really blame the driver for it.

 

@Tetraeon: sorry for this direct question, are the 93K all yours or is the car II-hand?
Do you know the type oil used by the dealer?

In my experience using 0w20 Oils with high mileage engines can lead to oil consumption. In Italy the FIT/JAZZ run all with 10w40 and always wondered why local Honda dealers never use 0w20.

 

The last service was done about 10k miles ago. In addition to the oil change, they replaced the rocker arm oil pressure switch.

I bought the car new in 2009, always taken to dealer for service. The oil they use is 5w20.

Had it towed back to the dealer service center yesterday; new engine is about $5700, used engine with 20k miles and one year warranty is about $4000. Asked what they might give me to trade-in towards another car and someone in the used car dept. appraised and said $500.

Seems like I should just donate it...? Wish I could just drop a V6 in it

 

and how much for the labor to put replacement engine in?

question is does the rocker arm oil pressure switch, if it worked, can tell if your oil pressure/level was low? if it does, then would it be safe to say that the dealer is at fault if the said part they used was defective or installed improperly.

 

That description of the noise sounds like a classic connecting-rod knock. Worn connecting-rod bearings are the usual cause, in this case from the lack of lubrication.

Just because the oil-change intervals are extended, does not necessarily mean that oil consumption is similarly reduced. You still need to check the level, maybe even more diligently since, as you've discovered, it's possible for the oil level to get critically low before it's drained and refilled.

My 2009 uses a quart of oil about every 7000-7500 miles. Not bad, and certainly not cause for concern, except that it doesn't ask for an oil-change service until it's been over 10,000 miles since the last one. If I didn't check and top it off in between changes, it would be 1.5 quarts low before it was refilled, and that could start things wearing out faster, as well as using oil even more rapidly. Might be what happened to yours...

 

So i have some food for thought. Vtec operates off of oil pressure. So by your description your car ran fine until the knocking started but you had no check engine light at all???
In my experience vtec doesn't operate without proper oil pressure. Idk what the case is with your engine but it sounds weird to me that the car ran fine with a quart of oil.

 

The prices they gave me includes parts and labor.

xxryu139xx, actually I'm not exactly sure what the rocker arm oil pressure switch does! A quick google search seems to show it's a common point of failure, but didn't find out exactly what it does. Anyone?

4thCornerFit, that sounds like a reasonable explanation. Is it surprising though that I never saw any warning indicators, even right up to the point of engine failure?

painterguy, that is also a little confusing to me. Before the noise started, I experienced no other symptoms of impending doom, and no warning, no CEL. Am I wrong in assuming the engine oil low pressure warning indicator should have been lit at some point? I did have a CEL before the last service, caused by the failed rocker arm oil pressure switch according to the service documents.