Update: Daughter picked it up yesterday from the dealer. Had to wait for parts to come in and when she could leave it for the day. $97 total. Had them do the intake cleaning and they credited her the original diagnostic fee towards it. Injectors/Pipe done under extended warranty.

Says it seems to accelerate better. I'll be doing the plugs/coils, front brakes in a week. Maybe Oil and CVT fluid again. Check the brake fluid and coolant.





2016 Japan Made EX with CVT, about 115k miles.

Had been throwing the P219A/P420, now threw P300 P301 P302 misfire codes on her ride back, so I'm pretty sure it's the injectors.

Hoping when my Daughter takes her car in to Honda that it will be under the extended warranty. Hoping it falls in the VIN numbers (This car is Japanese made, so the VIN is: JHM.....GS0000**. Looks like that TSB was for some Japanese cars but the last part is GX000001 through GX0*****) If it's not, I have limited time (she's working 3+ further west from me and I'm 3+ hours from 'home' further east) to work on cars. Not going to let a dealer charge full rates if it's something I can do myself. So I'm starting to find sources for parts and DIY videos/instructions. Fortunately my Brother works on his cars and he's about an hour and 10 minutes north from me, 3+ hours from her so I can use his garage/tools if needed.

So, I need some guidance on parts...what parts need done (Fuel injectors and rail if I recall from reading on here). Parts numbers?

I did see reference to 'upgraded' injectors and them needing a new rail. How do I ensure I don't get the old parts by mistake?

I see several options for the injectors: Honda parts suppliers (around $850), Reman from Rock Auto ($460 a set after core return), and some oddball ones 'OEM 4 Injectors' listed on Ebay for $100ish for the set. Nice label on the box, but I'm guessing they're probably imitation Chinese parts (or maybe the old style injectors dumped cheap)?

Fuel Rail...looks like it's Honda only (can't really find it elsewhere)...but if I use reman (rock auto) does that require the new fuel rail?

Any gaskets, etc that are removed during the process that should be replaced?

Finally...what else should I do when I'm in the guts of the engine? I really, really hate it when there's an exposed sensor/valve/gasket, etc. during one repair that took 3-4 hrs to get to that level in the engine, you fix the original problem, put everything together, then 4 months later that sensor/valve/gasket goes bad and you're back to work.

Thanks!!

I'll copy and paste this down below also:

Dealer. 1 hr service time to diagnose.

Needs tires (quoted for 4, front are not that bad) $140 a piece for ones with low UQTG ratings (Firestone).
Brake fluid change, CVT fluid change, Coolant service (total $450ish).

Alignment: no price quoted.

Coils ($115 each) and Plugs ($53 each).

Now on to the issue that caused the problem:

Injectors ($1520), Pipe ($290).

Intake clean ($255).

Looks like a computer flash at 0.5 hrs.

Apparently the good news is it's covered under the 22 TSB Above. Says "on Honda" in the quote.

I'm thinking let them do the intake cleaning and the injectors/pipe. I'll handle the Coils/Plugs myself (easy enough), and do the rest (she's due for front brakes) as part of basic maintenance one weekend.

 

Found the link on here to the Chilton's PDF with the injector replacement. Didn't look too hard (done much harder in my engine compartment). Just checking on the parts and any suggestions?

I did file (in searching the forum here) with NTSB for my Daughter, AND sent a message via Customer Service to Honda Corporate to see if it's covered.

 

When Honda redesigned the fuel injector and rail they would have pulled all the Honda old parts from circulation. That still leaves the risk of old parts in any "used" parts which might be circulating and any third party non-Honda parts which might be up for sale (and should be avoided anyways).

There are several Honda Service Bulletins which touch on fuel injector replacement: 16-034, 18-027, 22-002. You should be able to find them with a Google search.

 

Thanks. The numbers definitely help. She has an appointment on Thursday early AM.

 

@woof

Read through the TSBs:

Here's the parts for each:

16 TSB:

18 TSB:

22 TSB:

 

Not sure what is in the last one (Fuel Injector Kit) because it shows as $270 on line, whereas the Fuel Injector set from the first two is $870 on line, and the fuel joint pipe set is $160. None of them list the fuel rail (thought that was redesigned?).

 

The original 2015 fuel rail does not work with the redesigned (2016?) injectors and must be replaced. Yeah, the TSB's are kind of confusing.

 

One of the issues I see is that a lot of the parts (honda parts online, etc.) say 'country of origin MX'. I REALLY don't want to get the wrong parts in in the middle of the project and have it down for a week until the correct parts come in AND I can get back to working on it.

I'm thinking that if it's not covered under warranty, get the dealer to give her a list of parts needed...

 

It's not the "rail" it's the pipe that joins the high pressure, fuel pump to the rail. From a while ago reading others' experiences at the dealer, I don't think the pipe ever changed, but maybe I'm not remembering right. I thought, maybe using a new pipe may be a precautionary, safety thing... like it loses its integrity at the joint when reused and maybe more susceptible to a leak, so they use/list another new one, but I don't know. Anyway, I guess you can ask Honda about what you need.

I've also wondered about that "kit" and why so cheap everywhere?

 

@jscene
So the rail is still universal (i.e...shouldn't need replaced barring any damage)?

It says it includes the Fuel Injectors, but considering the injectors are $850+ from Honda parts sources, I have to wonder (maybe it's just new seals)?

 

Correct on the rail. It's over $400 and I've never heard of anyone having to get it replaced with the injectors. Just that pipe replaced which I always thought was the same, with the same part number.

Aside from that service bulletin, I can't find anyone that states what's in that kit and the bulletin states it's injectors (which should be the newer ones with the slightly different part number) and anything else needed which I assume to be just a new pipe and gasket. As far as I know, the injectors come with the seals. It's high pressure, DI. I guess you can ask about it though.

Although my car is currently running fine, I was interested because my 10-year injector warranty expires in Oct and when it does, I was just going to order that kit for that cheap price and have it just in case or maybe just change them out someday, just for precaution.

I think other Hondas (Civic, Accord) have kits too... a little more expensive, but still cheap price for those cars.

 

New here. Learned a bit cleaning intake valves and replacing fuel injectors - Unofficial Honda FIT Forums (fitfreak.net)

I found this thread link, scrolling down at the bottom of this thread. I thought there was another DIYer posting, with someone just going by the service bulletin instructions but I don't know if anyone did any step by step or what youtube may have.

 

I'll update today. At the dealer getting it checked out. $170/hr shop fee.

Only recall under her VIN is the Start/Stop button.

Per a Honda Tech on another board, any time he sees the P0420 in a 2016+ he goes right for the injectors. Easy job he says.



Dealer. 1 hr service time to diagnose.

Needs tires (quoted for 4, front are not that bad) $140 a piece for ones with low UQTG ratings (Firestone).
Brake fluid change, CVT fluid change, Coolant service (total $450ish).

Alignment: no price quoted.

Coils ($115 each) and Plugs ($53 each).

Now on to the issue that caused the problem:

Injectors ($1520), Pipe ($290).

Intake clean ($255).

Looks like a computer flash at 0.5 hrs.

Apparently the good news is it's covered under the 22 TSB Above. Says "on Honda" in the quote.

I'm thinking let them do the intake cleaning and the injectors/pipe. I'll handle the Coils/Plugs myself (easy enough), and do the rest (she's due for front brakes) as part of basic maintenance one weekend.

 

Update in first post

 

Coming back just to provide info for future searchers: The 06160-5R1-000 part number in the 22 TSB does indeed include injectors, the fuel pipe, ethylene glycol, and the TB gasket. It is a single part number that includes all those items. I have no idea how the price is so low, other than that Honda is trying to help out owners out of warranty.

 

Also for future searchers, did the swap a few days ago, not terrible. Total took under 3 hours for a very mechanically savvy first-timer.

Remove airbox: unclip top of airbox, unplug MAF, remove air filter. Remove 2 10mm bolts holding rear of lower airbox to car, one on left and one on right side of airbox. These bolts are captured on the airbox and will not come out fully, also cannot get lost. Unclip 2 green clips holding wire harness to left of airbox, can gently depress the tabs on back side and slip them out. Remove 4 plastic push fasteners holding the front snorkel portion, one frontmost toward center of car is a Phillips head center, the rest are push type. Loosen hose clamp for plastic air duct onto throttle body (5.5mm hex, first time I've used my 5.5mm). Unclamp the two metal pipes behind the air duct, bigger one is PCV breather and thinner one is coolant into throttle body. Disconnect them; coolant one will drip a few tablespoons of fluid, plug it with something if you'd like. They can be fairly stuck with age, use a thin pick inserted between hose and metal tube to help detach, and try to twist the hose on the metal to help break them free, then pull straight off. There is a ~2" hose into the bottom of the air duct as well, it simply slips off.

Remove throttle body: unclip the electrical connector, undo 4 10mm bolts, set throttle body down on top of tranny beneath. Be aware there is another coolant pipe to the throttle body, and if you did not cap off the one coolant pipe you disconnected earlier, it will leak a lot more coolant as you move it lower relative to the rest of the coolant system. The throttle body gasket will be in a groove on the intake manifold once you take the throttle body off. It has a little tab on the side facing front of car, you can pull it out by that tab and discard. Replace with your new one in the kit. Behind and below the throttle body is a 10mm bolt holding the bracket for the high pressure fuel pipe - remove that bolt.

Now to access fuel rail: On the engine towards front of car, right beneath the intake manifold. It has a foam cover over it that needs to be removed first. On the right side (driver side) there are 2 ground wires attached to the block right under the intake manifold, 10mm bolt. Remove that just for some clearance. On the left side is an electrical harness clipped to the foam cover, again 2 of the green clips. The foam cover itself is held on by 2 10mm bolts underneath it, use a mirror on a stick to help see, but roughly 1/4 the way in from either end. These are the 2 shortest 10mm you'll have, the one holding the 2 ground wires is slightly longer. Wiggle the foam cover outward and upward to remove (toward front of car and upward).

Remove fuel rail: Left side of fuel rail has a pressure sensor plugged in. This has a large rubber boot over the entire thing, but on the boot is a molded PUSH - squeeze that area to release the clip and wiggle it off to the left. On top center of intake manifold is a PCV vacuum line - unclamp with pliers and pull it off with a twisting motion, this is just to give some room to clear the fuel rail. Unclip the 4 injectors - the clips are under the injectors and the lock tab is on the underside of each clip. Press lock tab upwards and gently wiggle each connector off. There isn't much room to do this. Prepare a rag. Crack the high pressure fuel pipe loose - both ends are 19mm nuts, one into end of fuel rail and one off the high pressure fuel pump. The lower end (the end on the fuel rail) will drip some gas when you loosen it, catch it with the rag. High pressure fuel pump also has a foam cover on it, this is held on the rear end through a metal bracket, but you can lift the front of the foam (the end towards front of car, nearest the fuel pipe nut) to get clearance.

Remove the fuel pipe - this slips downward off the high pressure fuel pump and will require a bit of rotating and wiggling to clear the bends. There is a foam cover on the fuel pipe, it clips onto the pipe with 2 metal clips. Note the orientation and position of the foam and transfer it to your new fuel pipe in the kit. Remove the fuel rail itself - there are 2 10mm nuts and 6 10mm bolts. The nuts are on studs to help you align easier on installation. 6 bolts are same length. Wiggle fuel rail out towards front of car and slightly upward angle. Work your way side to side, there is a lot of seal friction you will gradually overcome. Clean up the injector pockets and the fuel line connection on the fuel rail carefully, you cannot get dust, dirt, or fibers into the fuel system here.

Pull out each injector. Some of them will come out with the rail, or not. All of mine stayed in the engine. Hook the top flange of the injector with thin pliers and brace against the bolt boss where the fuel rail bolted on if you need some leverage help, but be very careful. You can also use an injector puller, there are specific tools for this. Clean up the injector pockets on the engine very carefully, and clean up the bosses where the fuel rail will bolt back on very carefully.

Assembly - follow the reverse of above in detail: Note that the kit includes glycol in a little syringe with very clear instructions to apply it to the fuel pipe tapered sealing ends and the threaded portion of the joint at the end of fuel rail and off the high pressure fuel pump. In addition, I apply a little engine oil on the new fuel injector top o-rings as well as a light swipe of it around each injector hole on the fuel rail. Install the new injector clips on each new injector (all included in kit) - match your takeoff injector for proper orientation. They snap on and hold themselves in place on the 2 flats on each injector.

Install the injectors in the engine, connector pointed downward. Press them in just until they stop, you will press them the rest of the way as you install the fuel rail. Install the fuel rail, carefully lining up each injector into its hole so you don't damage the o-rings. Press the fuel rail toward the engine to help seat, you should be able to get a couple threads of each of the 2 studs to protrude through the fuel rail flange. Start the 2 10mm nuts, then start all 6 bolts. Going from center to outside in a back and forth pattern, snug each bolt/nut half a turn or so at a time so the entire fuel rail tightens evenly. Repeat this pattern until done, probably took me 20-30 repeats. Be patient, you want this to seat flush and evenly, do not get impatient and get it cocked by uneven tightening. Note torque spec on these, it is not much torque. Carefully thread the new hard fuel pipe up into place (one end at high pressure fuel pump, with foam cover transferred from old pipe.) Apply glycol to the tapered cone and to the threads on each end, and start the nut a few threads. Do not tighten yet - line up the bracket in the middle of the pipe with the threaded mount hold on engine and start that bolt. Then go back and tighten each end of the fuel pipe, note the torque spec. Then go back and tighten the bracket bolt.

Replace the foam cover on the high pressure fuel pump. Connect the booted electrical connector to the sensor on left side of fuel rail. Replace the foam cover on the fuel rail, 2 short 10mm bolts. Connect the 4 connectors to each fuel injector. Clip the 2 harness clips on left side to the foam cover. Bolt the ground wires on the right side back to engine (one 10mm bolt slightly longer). Plug the PCV vac line back into top center of intake manifold and clamp. Make sure new throttle body gasket is installed, attach throttle body with 4 bolts. Connect throttle body electrical connector. Install lower airbox, make sure to reconnect the 2" hose underneath, insert the vacuum pipe above the inlet tube, and reconnect the coolant pipe to hose right behind the vacuum pipe. 4 push fittings on the snorkel up front, 2 10mm bolts on either side to rear of filter box. 5.5mm hose clamp to clamp the intake pipe to the throttle body. Install air filter, install air box lid, 4 latches. Plug in MAF sensor. Clip 2 green clips holding MAF wire back into to the airbox.

Clear the codes, check for leaks - you'll likely smell a leak before you see it on the high pressure fuel system, esp since it's covered by foam.

 

Sam, Thank you for these instructions. I don't think I've ever used a more thorough, clear and accurate set of instructions. They were perfect and guided me through the procedure beautifully. My only struggle was accessing the two bolts under the foam insulator that goes around the fuel rail. God knows how I would have found those bolts without your help. Also, snaking the new fuel pipe up through the narrow passage way was difficult. Other than that, things went smoothly.
My 2015 has 175K miles on it, and the injectors were ugly. On one of them, two of the six holes were plugged. The others didn't look good either. But with so many miles, I'm happy they did as well as they did. My fuel economy had dropped to a max of 35 mpg a few months ago. The car would get 42 or even 45 mpg on a 55mph highway trip. It got close to 50 once or twice in the past. Four dash warning lights (TPM, Chk Eng, Steering, and SRS) had come on a couple of times. I cleared them by disconnecting the battery, but I knew I had to do something. Advice here on Fitfreak forum suggested the injectors were the problem.
I'll probably also replace the O2 sensors soon, more or less as preventative maintenance. I walnut blasted my intake valves while I was at it with a cheap blaster I got for $40 at Harbor Freight. Pretty gunked up in there. But they're pretty now. While I had it off, I noticed that my intake manifold cover had oil in it, probably 3 or 4 oz. So I replaced the PCV valve, and I hope that fixes it. Might also be valve stem seals, given the age of the car.
All in all, I spent about 8 or 9 hours on the project, including time to find bolts and tools I dropped down into the darkness a few times. The walnut blasting was slow and tedious. That alone probably took 3 hours. I'm sure I could do the injector job in 3 hours, as you suggest, if I were doing it the second time.
I have had very few problems with my 2015 fit (starter button and VTC rattle, mainly). It's been a great car.

 

Happy to hear that they helped someone!

 

Dude.... THANK YOU SO MUCH! You are a lifesaver!

-Sponiebr