Well Guys, have any of you noticed a negative camber issue with your rear wheels? For those uninformed, camber angle is the measurement in degrees of the difference between the wheels vertical alignment perpendicular to the surface beneath the tire. If a wheel is perfectly perpendicular to the surface, its camber would be 0 degrees. Camber is described as negative, when the top of the tires begin to tilt inwards towards the fender wells.
Our new Fit visually displays a negative camber angle issue on both rear wheels. I realize loading of the vehicle will somewhat affect the camber angle. With two full-size adults, in the front seats, a negative camber is still quite noticeable. I have not yet contacted the dealer, nor have I researched the factory default rear camber angles. My long term concern is the abnormal wearing of the inside of the tire treads. Additionally, it just doesn't look right for passenger car tires to not be perpendicular to the ground.
Has anyone else noticed this issue? Have you done anything about it? Our Fit is brand new, with only 200 miles on it, so I'm not yet that concerned about uncharacteristic tire wear. I'm wanting to prevent further problems.

 

No such issue here, but if you notice such issue with your car. You need to contact the dealer and have it fixed ASAP. With the camber in the negative, you are compromising the stability of the vehicle.

 

There are three angles that come into play with wheel alignment: camber (as you described), caster (the fore-aft tilt of the wheel's vertical axis) and toe-in (difference in distance between the leading and trailing parts of the wheel.

Negative camber is normal, and is offset by a bit of toe-in and caster angle adjustment to ensure tire wear is kept to a minimum.

The three adjustments work together to make the car track straighter. If all three were set to a neutral adjustment, the car would wander all over the road.



es

 

There's really not much that could go wrong to cause an issue like this on the Fit except a bent beam. The rear suspension is a torsion beam and is not adjustable for camber from the factory. As a matter of fact, there is probably nothing that CAN be adjusted in the rear?

More than likely it's just an exaggerated optical illusion, but if you're still concerned, take it back to the dealership and ask them nicely to put it on the alignment rack to show you where it sits. AFAIK the GE (09-13) rear end had a little more camber than the front did as well.

 

Correct.

es

 

As long as it doesn't look like this, I think you should be fine.

 

Negative camber is on all 3 generations of Fits. It is meant to help the car track straight and under steer for control. It's a MacPherson strut system in the back and contrary to what many people say camber and toe can be adjusted...hub shims can be installed in the back of the hub in order to change the geometry. the problem with this is it is a lotta work.

 

Hub shims are possible on the GD, not the GE, the hubs are not remove-able from the torsion bar. Not positive about the GK.

 

I need to take the wheels off this weekend in order to snake my brake controller wires around the suspension components. I'll confirm this for you guys. 99% sure it is. either way the whole nature of a MacPherson strut system even if nothing is bent, if the construction jig was not straight when the parts were welded together, the toe and camber could be off by many degrees causing wear and tracking issues. I had to deal with this issue on my 2011. I got baseline readings from a friend who worked at a tire shop. only the front toe and camber can be adjusted and I think after very little unless you change the bolts. in order to do this you need to reference the back wheels if they are "non adjustable."

I bought the shims and installed them on the vehicle behind the hub after figuring out what degree angle I needed in order to get the hubs into spec. This worked out very well until I crashed it earlier this year during a winter storm and insurance paid for all new suspension components all the way around. I didn't have any issues with tracking camber toe etc. There was no need to install shims at that point. a few months later I got my 2015 GK.

Now had I known about this forum a few months ago I would have written about this whole shim project / crash ordeal. I would have also been spending a hell of a lot more money much faster on the first two generations of Honda Fits I've owned. ;-)

 

Okay I stand corrected. The hubs are removeable on the GK 3rd gen body. One can put shims behind the hub to correct camber/toe. If the hub geometry is out of spec...shim

 

Wow, that's plain inexcusable on the part of Honda. I guess what do they care if you need to purchase a new axle to get into alignment spec, and with NO guarantee the new axle will spec out out any better than the original.

And try telling the service manager your new rear axle is out of spec a couple of hundred or thousand miles after taking delivery, and I'm sure his or her answer will be that you must have hit a pothole large enough to bend your 2015 Fit's unadjustable, unshimmable, rear axle.

My GE was way out of factory spec from jump, and the first set of tires was shot in less than 20K miles, even with frequent rotations. The second set of tires were doing no better when the vehicle was totaled at 29K miles, basically saving me from having to shim the rear in order to keep tires on the car.

Some of the crap mainstream automakers are building these days is pretty mind boggling, even from companies perceived to have hig reliability, such as Honda, Toyota, Mazda, and Subaru. Japanese built units lack in robustness of both design and build, and are probably no better than their counterparts built in Mexico and other countries where manual labor is so inexpensive that automation costs are minimized to increase profit. I wonder how many people are dropping $35-$40K to buy into MB and BMW solely to own the marque; meanwhile, vehicles like the MB CLA have inexcusably poor suspensions that literally bottom out, and their owners will be strapped with nearly $200 per hour labor cost for the life of the vehicle. No thanks. There's a reason why there are so many CLA's on the used car market just one model year into their life cycle.

 

Yeah I was a bit disappointed myself. My 2008 model had the back alignment toe settings something like this..../------\


It was simply how it was welded to the axle. The stock Dunlops dies in 28k even with rotations. I put some good Bridgestone tires on but it had a higher speed rate and directional tread, which made the tracking worse because the back wheels were f^&cked up. I had Town Fair tire align the car 3 times and every single time my steering wheel was crooked. Finally took it to the dealer and they told me the car doesn't need an alignment, said its the way the steering system is made, its not a hydraulic steering. I personally know the tech who works on all my Fits and even he said yeah all the rear axles are off in some spec. The best he is allowed to do is align the front wheels by "referencing" the back wheels.


So I took it upon myself to order a shim kit. I got the baseline readings of the back wheels and front, and bought the correct size shim to correct more in line with spec. I put grease between the hub and spindle so debris wouldn't bother it (since you are adding a gap) and reassembled. When I had the dealer align on their machine, wouldn't ya know...NO MORE ALIGNMENT/TRACKING ISSUES!


A kit like this: k6660-4

 

I am really surprised that you see a problem with this..negative camber is always achieved at the rear axle when loaded. fwd, rwd, awd (doesn't matter) this is 100% normal and part of the reason is so that your tires do not come into contact with the wheel well.

If you tried to tell the dealership that this is a concern, they will say the same thing. you have nothing to worry about.

 

My rear wheels have negative camber also. I think they are all like that if you take time to look. Nothing is bent. It's just how they are made. You have to look close. Don't know how it will affect tire wear, but it's designed that way on purpose.

 

the suspension is designed to have negative camber. don't sweat it. ive owned 4 Fits (2 modded) and all of them run pre-programmed negative camber and toe. it is the car's suspension geometry.

I've not had one issue with odd tire wear or handling problems.