What are you guys running for offset?
#61
What is it that you think is so different about the new Swift springs that prevent rubbing? The only thing it can be is less drop and a stiffer rate. Dimensionally, the geometry is identical and the aftermarket springs designed for the 2nd gen struts fit the third gen as well. The issue is the E.T. Of the wheels, period. Keep the back spacing good and there's no issues. Here's the 2nd gen Konis with H and R springs. They work great. I've got almost 5000 miles on them now. I'm sure glad I didn't wait:
No rubbing here:
No rubbing here:
ET isn't a problem per se, I'm running 38 on 17x7.5 and have never heard or seen wheel touching the wells on mine.
I also think springs (not coilover kits) are not cross compatible between gd and gk because on gk the rear rides on bump stops all the time.
This might not be a noticeable problem if you only ride on smooth to slightly less smooth roads or on the circuit for some fun but if you often ride on rougher roads and have people sitting in the back, it gets old very soon.
#62
Not the person you asked but anyway.
ET isn't a problem per se, I'm running 38 on 17x7.5 and have never heard or seen wheel touching the wells on mine.
I also think springs (not coilover kits) are not cross compatible between gd and gk because on gk the rear rides on bump stops all the time.
This might not be a noticeable problem if you only ride on smooth to slightly less smooth roads or on the circuit for some fun but if you often ride on rougher roads and have people sitting in the back, it gets old very soon.
ET isn't a problem per se, I'm running 38 on 17x7.5 and have never heard or seen wheel touching the wells on mine.
I also think springs (not coilover kits) are not cross compatible between gd and gk because on gk the rear rides on bump stops all the time.
This might not be a noticeable problem if you only ride on smooth to slightly less smooth roads or on the circuit for some fun but if you often ride on rougher roads and have people sitting in the back, it gets old very soon.
Regardless of what the springs are "designed" for, lowering the car will cause the shocks and struts to compress the bump stops (jounce springs). The jounce bumpers are not only bump stops to reduce harsh bottoming, they are supplemental springs. They add a progressive rate to the springs, and if the aftermarket mfr incorporated the jounce into their spring rate, cutting them could reduce the rate too much and make them sag more than designed, as well as cause bottoming too easily.
I cut my bumpers on the front, but after I replaced the OE shocks with Konis, I wish I didn't cut them. I didn't cut the rear bumpers because they snap into the plastic shield and tower pad, and the Konis are shorter which reduces the jounce compression:
Don't blindly cut the bumpers; check with the mfr of the aftermarket springs and see if they recommend cutting them or not.
My car rides freaking awesome. I know Swift makes a great product; I prefer a bit lower ride height than they offer. H and R makes great springs too and they match the Koni damping rate well. I love my set-up and I am very happy with my suspension, even though it's not "designed" for my car:
If I would have waited for Koni, H&R, Tein, etc to make specific suspension components, I'd still be waiting instead of enjoying the changes that I've already made. The parts I'm using are not for everyone. In fact, some might not like it at all and I'm not recommending anyone modify their car like I did. I can tell you I am very happy I did and I enjoy my car much more since the change:
Last edited by jhn; 05-22-2015 at 10:58 AM.
#63
Regardless of what the springs are "designed" for, lowering the car will cause the shocks and struts to compress the bump stops (jounce springs). The jounce bumpers are not only bump stops to reduce harsh bottoming, they are supplimental springs. They add a progressive rate to the springs, and if the mfr incorporated the jounce into their springs, cutting them could reduce the rate too much and make them sag more than designed, as well as cause bottoming too easily.
I cut my bumpers on the front, but after I replaced the OE shocks with Konis, I wish I didn't cut them. I didn't cut the rear bumpers because they snap into the plastic shield and tower pad, and the Konis are shorter which reduces the jounce compression:
Don't blindly cut the bumpers; check with the mfr of the aftermarket springs and see if they recommend cutting them or not.
My car rides freaking awesome. I know Swift makes a great product; I prefer a bit lower ride height than they offer. H and R makes great springs too and they match the Koni damping rate well. I love my set-up and I am very happy with my suspension, even though it's not "designed" for my car:
If I would have waited for Koni, H&R, Tein, etc to make specific suspension components, I'd still be waiting insted of enjoying the changes that I've already made. The parts I'm using are not for everyone. In fact, some might not like it at all and I'm not recommending anyone modify their car like I did. I can tell you I am very happy I did and I enjoy my car much more since the change:
I cut my bumpers on the front, but after I replaced the OE shocks with Konis, I wish I didn't cut them. I didn't cut the rear bumpers because they snap into the plastic shield and tower pad, and the Konis are shorter which reduces the jounce compression:
Don't blindly cut the bumpers; check with the mfr of the aftermarket springs and see if they recommend cutting them or not.
My car rides freaking awesome. I know Swift makes a great product; I prefer a bit lower ride height than they offer. H and R makes great springs too and they match the Koni damping rate well. I love my set-up and I am very happy with my suspension, even though it's not "designed" for my car:
If I would have waited for Koni, H&R, Tein, etc to make specific suspension components, I'd still be waiting insted of enjoying the changes that I've already made. The parts I'm using are not for everyone. In fact, some might not like it at all and I'm not recommending anyone modify their car like I did. I can tell you I am very happy I did and I enjoy my car much more since the change:
I'm also perfectly clear what bump stops do on this car and how they supplement the spring. Key word, supplement. It shouldn't take over spring.
If you didn't cut your front bump stop in front it would ride on it so spring wouldn't really do much work. Mine did and it's shorter drop than yours. Looking at the photo it seems you still do ride on them.
I'm actually very interested in one detail about your setup since I first saw it, because the rear strut cylinder is shorter.
Could I bother you to do one thing when and if possible:
Measure the distance from the center of the rear wheel to the edge of the fender then disconnect the struts and measure again.
Last edited by CN_Fit; 05-22-2015 at 11:08 AM. Reason: ET not it
#64
Mine rubbed with way less off-set than that. Maybe my springs are softer. They still ride much stiffer than OE.
Those would have to be really stiff to not hit.
You car looks great, btw. I like it.
#65
I'm not attacking your choices here, to each his own, just clarifying why it isn't recommended to cross-install springs just because you can and that ET isn't really an issue here (but it can be). Nice ride BTW.
I'm also perfectly clear what bump stops do on this car and how they supplement the spring. Key word, supplement. It shouldn't take over spring.
If you didn't cut your front bump stop in front it would ride on it so spring wouldn't really do much work. Mine did and it's shorter drop than yours. Looking at the photo it seems you still do ride on them.
I'm actually very interested in one detail about your setup since I first saw it, because the rear strut cylinder is shorter.
Could I bother you to do one thing when and if possible:
Measure the distance from the center of the rear wheel to the edge of the fender then disconnect the struts and measure again.
I'm also perfectly clear what bump stops do on this car and how they supplement the spring. Key word, supplement. It shouldn't take over spring.
If you didn't cut your front bump stop in front it would ride on it so spring wouldn't really do much work. Mine did and it's shorter drop than yours. Looking at the photo it seems you still do ride on them.
I'm actually very interested in one detail about your setup since I first saw it, because the rear strut cylinder is shorter.
Could I bother you to do one thing when and if possible:
Measure the distance from the center of the rear wheel to the edge of the fender then disconnect the struts and measure again.
If I can get a chance this weekend I'll give it a go. I'm interested to see if the sag increases as well
Last edited by jhn; 05-22-2015 at 11:32 AM.
#66
Great, thanks! Do put some wood pieces under each strut eye so you don't damage them when lowering the car from lift/lifts, they'll be extended.
#67
Though I do have different problem and will be doing a write up soon for others to be aware.
#68
Again, I'm having 205/40x17 7.5in wide on TEIN high.techs, no rubbing whatsoever and I'm driving in CN where roads are like a wheel of fortune, one is great with random deep potholes and another is cracked concrete all around.
Though I do have different problem and will be doing a write up soon for others to be aware.
Though I do have different problem and will be doing a write up soon for others to be aware.
I forgot to mention before: I did measure the height of the car with the stock rear dampers, and then after I added the Koni's. There was to change at all. Same height. I noticed more body roll and better ride quality with less bounciness with the Konis. It was noticeable right away.
Last edited by jhn; 05-22-2015 at 12:27 PM.
#69
So what is it then? The drop on those is 1.2", I think? You have stock dampers? Your telling me the springs alone are preventing wheel rub and it's the extra lowered .4" height that's the issue, not the off-set?
I forgot to mention before: I did measure the height of the car with the stock rear dampers, and then after I added the Koni's. There was to change at all. Same height. I noticed more body roll and better ride quality with less bounciness with the Konis. It was noticeable right away.
I forgot to mention before: I did measure the height of the car with the stock rear dampers, and then after I added the Koni's. There was to change at all. Same height. I noticed more body roll and better ride quality with less bounciness with the Konis. It was noticeable right away.
Yes, stock struts but I'd like ones like yours sonner than later I saw you tucked your wheels for 1.7 deg and now I'm just waiting for camber bolts to follow your suggestion.
We all have different setups so what I'm saying is that on mine there's no rubbing with ET 38. Obviously we're talking here about aftermarket springs so going lower will rub eventually but his drop doesn't look so extreme and that's why I asked him what he did with the bumps. Yours looks slammed, which makes me think you're still on bumps and that's what (probably) gives you bouncy feedback.
I'm puzzled about your rears though. Bumps on mine actually maintain the height which I extremely dislike.
Last edited by CN_Fit; 05-22-2015 at 12:37 PM.
#70
The tire size is a bit of a puzzle for me because most of the rest of the world gets 185/60x15 so 205/40x17 is within 1.3% or so difference in diameter. Mugen also has their units on same size so I went with that. I wanted more sidewall on 17 but figured better to err on the side of mugen
#73
I was puzzled as well, but by the fronts. The spring perch visually looks higher, effectively increasing the preload if it were the case. I anticipated a slightly higher front height after the Koni swap, but my measurements remained the same as OE
Last edited by jhn; 05-23-2015 at 11:03 AM.
#74
The only thing I can think why you're not hitting is the smaller diameter tires. That 1/4" or so reduction in radius is enough to prevent contact at full compression?
There's plenty of examples of 205/50/16 +40et hitting with stock suspension so any lowering and increase in et will rub if overall diameter and tread width remain constant
There's plenty of examples of 205/50/16 +40et hitting with stock suspension so any lowering and increase in et will rub if overall diameter and tread width remain constant
#75
What kind of tires are you guys running? Not all 205's are 205mm. I suspect your tires jhn are more performance oriented tires (I guess since you have a number plate), and as such, might actually be MORE than 205mm... and CN_Fit's tires may actually be less than 205mm
How the tire fits on the rim is important too... how the sidewall forms on the bead. Some tires sit differently than others. My 205/55/15 Kumho Ecsta 4x rub more than my same size S.Drives did on my GE because they balloon more.
I didn't notice if either of you posted what tires you were running, maybe I missed it. When you start getting getting really close to the rub/norub line small differences like tire construction can push you over.
#76
Mine rubbed w/ the OE 185/55/16, +42
Now if they're rolling/ pulling/ tucking the fenders and liners that would do it. But I'm not going to do that. At 1.5" drop my car's not really slammed so aside from the smaller overall diameter of 205/40/17 on 7.5" +38 or more, I'm not sure why the Swift springs are the deciding factor that allows their cars more off-set w/ no rubbing. I'm missing something in my understanding because my experience would expect that it does.
Now if they're rolling/ pulling/ tucking the fenders and liners that would do it. But I'm not going to do that. At 1.5" drop my car's not really slammed so aside from the smaller overall diameter of 205/40/17 on 7.5" +38 or more, I'm not sure why the Swift springs are the deciding factor that allows their cars more off-set w/ no rubbing. I'm missing something in my understanding because my experience would expect that it does.
Last edited by jhn; 05-22-2015 at 07:58 PM.
#77
ET, combined with tire width absolutely is the problem. No amount of spring rate adjustment on lowering springs will correct or prevent fender rubbing with too much off-set/ too wide tires.
Regardless of what the springs are "designed" for, lowering the car will cause the shocks and struts to compress the bump stops (jounce springs). The jounce bumpers are not only bump stops to reduce harsh bottoming, they are supplemental springs. They add a progressive rate to the springs, and if the aftermarket mfr incorporated the jounce into their spring rate, cutting them could reduce the rate too much and make them sag more than designed, as well as cause bottoming too easily.
I cut my bumpers on the front, but after I replaced the OE shocks with Konis, I wish I didn't cut them. I didn't cut the rear bumpers because they snap into the plastic shield and tower pad, and the Konis are shorter which reduces the jounce compression:
Don't blindly cut the bumpers; check with the mfr of the aftermarket springs and see if they recommend cutting them or not.
My car rides freaking awesome. I know Swift makes a great product; I prefer a bit lower ride height than they offer. H and R makes great springs too and they match the Koni damping rate well. I love my set-up and I am very happy with my suspension, even though it's not "designed" for my car:
If I would have waited for Koni, H&R, Tein, etc to make specific suspension components, I'd still be waiting instead of enjoying the changes that I've already made. The parts I'm using are not for everyone. In fact, some might not like it at all and I'm not recommending anyone modify their car like I did. I can tell you I am very happy I did and I enjoy my car much more since the change:
Regardless of what the springs are "designed" for, lowering the car will cause the shocks and struts to compress the bump stops (jounce springs). The jounce bumpers are not only bump stops to reduce harsh bottoming, they are supplemental springs. They add a progressive rate to the springs, and if the aftermarket mfr incorporated the jounce into their spring rate, cutting them could reduce the rate too much and make them sag more than designed, as well as cause bottoming too easily.
I cut my bumpers on the front, but after I replaced the OE shocks with Konis, I wish I didn't cut them. I didn't cut the rear bumpers because they snap into the plastic shield and tower pad, and the Konis are shorter which reduces the jounce compression:
Don't blindly cut the bumpers; check with the mfr of the aftermarket springs and see if they recommend cutting them or not.
My car rides freaking awesome. I know Swift makes a great product; I prefer a bit lower ride height than they offer. H and R makes great springs too and they match the Koni damping rate well. I love my set-up and I am very happy with my suspension, even though it's not "designed" for my car:
If I would have waited for Koni, H&R, Tein, etc to make specific suspension components, I'd still be waiting instead of enjoying the changes that I've already made. The parts I'm using are not for everyone. In fact, some might not like it at all and I'm not recommending anyone modify their car like I did. I can tell you I am very happy I did and I enjoy my car much more since the change:
#78
Rear bumps shouldn't be cut on gk5, but to answer your question: with strut bottom supported on the floor jerk the top assy and it'll release. The small sleeve is just stuck on conical part of the strut stem.
#79
No more drilling out the sleeve!
#80