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General Voltage Stabilizer Puzzle Thread

  #101  
Old 05-03-2008, 06:13 PM
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Why is this thread a sticky?
Voltage stabilizers are a waste of money. arteitle hit the nail on the head.

Originally Posted by arteitle View Post
I'd like to preface this by saying that I have bachelor's degrees in electrical engineering and computer engineering, and I have experience designing, building, and testing DC power supplies and board-level analog and digital circuits. I'd like to fill in some blanks and resolve some misconceptions regarding "voltage stabilizers".

A typical car battery may hold on the order of 50 amp-hours, or 180,000 coulombs of charge. At 12.6 volts, that's equivalent to around a whopping 14,000 farads. By comparison, let's be really optimistic and say that a "voltage stabilizer" contains 100,000 microfarads (say, fifty 2000 uF electrolytic caps), or 0.1 farads. Putting that in parallel with your battery increases its capacitance by 0.0007%. My point is that compared to the relatively huge capacity of your battery, the capacitance of a "voltage stabilizer" is practically nothing.

Various sources I've found online put the internal resistance of a typical car battery on the order of 0.01 ohms. In other words, car battery will only drop about a volt during a brief 100 amp drain. A typical alternator can provide up to 70 amps at full load, such as while powering accessories and recharging the battery. Alternator noise depends on engine speed, but is typically in the audible range, in the hundreds or thousands of hertz. Head- and taillights together draw around 10 amps of pure DC, and your audio system might draw as much as a couple dozen amps, again with frequencies in the audio range.

With such high amperage, relatively low frequency currents coming out of the alternator, into the accessories, and in or out of the battery, the "voltage stabilizer" doesn't have a chance of noticeably impacting the car's electrical system voltage. It's orders of magnitude too small.

An important question that nobody seems to ask is, what specific problem are "voltage stabilizers" meant to solve? Noisy power to the ECU? To the audio system? If these were actual problems, a much better solution would involve one or more LC circuits (pi filters, as mentioned earlier) and/or an active semiconductor voltage regulator in series with the supplies to these components. A relatively microscopic capacitor in parallel with the entire electrical system won't cut it. Chances are good that the ECU already has a semiconductor-regulated supply, but I haven't dissected mine, so I can't say for certain. However, both devices were designed to be powered by an alternator, and both have their own internal power filtering.

In summary, my expert opinion: it's a waste of money. Any benefit one might experience will be due to the placebo effect or simple experimental variation. This I can say without owning or testing a "voltage stabilizer", as the principles by which it is supposed to work are well understood, and have been known and studied for over 200 years.
 
  #102  
Old 05-04-2008, 12:35 AM
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It's a sticky b/c not everyone agrees with experts that don't have one, never have had one, thus have no first-hand experience with one whatsoever.
 
  #103  
Old 05-04-2008, 03:49 AM
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congrats on the 1000th post chikubi!
 
  #104  
Old 05-04-2008, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Chikubi View Post
It's a sticky b/c not everyone agrees with experts that don't have one, never have had one, thus have no first-hand experience with one whatsoever.
There is a reason experts don't have one. You don't need to buy something or take something apart to know its not worth it, if you fully understand the engineering principles behind the part's technology (or lack thereof). I don't understand why people argue this one.
If you want one, get one. Done.
This thread is here to get expert opinions on a questionable product. Those opinions (along with facts) have been expressed. Now people can make a decision.
 
  #105  
Old 05-07-2008, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by CasopoliS View Post
There is a reason experts don't have one. You don't need to buy something or take something apart to know its not worth it, if you fully understand the engineering principles behind the part's technology (or lack thereof). I don't understand why people argue this one.
The fault lies in assuming the experts fully understand the engineering principals behind the technology. It also lies in assuming you're talking to the right experts. And the biggest problem of all is assuming you're enough of an expert to preclude yourself from the necessity of hands-on experience. I mean, I know a lot about aeronautics. I can tell you the how and why a plane flies in detail and the design concerns etc. involved in building one, though I've never actually built one. Would you really want to sit in the cockpit with me still on my maiden flight?
 
  #106  
Old 05-07-2008, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Chikubi View Post
The fault lies in assuming the experts fully understand the engineering principals behind the technology. It also lies in assuming you're talking to the right experts. And the biggest problem of all is assuming you're enough of an expert to preclude yourself from the necessity of hands-on experience. I mean, I know a lot about aeronautics. I can tell you the how and why a plane flies in detail and the design concerns etc. involved in building one, though I've never actually built one. Would you really want to sit in the cockpit with me still on my maiden flight?
seriously, i thought this would be a nice thing to have half a year ago. then i took my physics class this semester. (Physics 5b:electrics, magnetism,& optics)
a few weeks into the course, i read this thread again and noticed that the experts are RIGHT! it's just super simple physics! and simple technology. you'd have to be a fool to buy this.
if you learned a few simple circuit, resistance, and capacitance rules you'd kick yourself for buying this
 
  #107  
Old 05-07-2008, 11:25 AM
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Nobody knows anybody on the internet. When you ask for expert advice on the internet it IS really hard to know if the person giving the facts is truly an expert. I totally agree. Your best bet is to do the research yourself rather than question the facts that others bring to the table. Solidify the facts the other people bring to the table with your own research.
 
  #108  
Old 05-07-2008, 11:45 AM
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Good post by quangalang. Good to see a member learning something in school that helps him understand his FIT and mods better. But like he posted it's just simple physics like a few of us have posted no need to buy one to try it out.
 
  #109  
Old 09-15-2008, 03:58 PM
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Is it that complicated? Come on guys. We're not running a race car. Thers so many things that the battery is doing. The VS might not even be doing what it's name says but something else. Has anybody considered that?
 
  #110  
Old 09-16-2008, 06:19 AM
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I'm an expert at drinking beer. Do I qualify?
 
  #111  
Old 01-08-2009, 03:09 AM
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I just bought my voltage stabilizer. It works!!!

Three months ago I was at a local drug store and saw a gadget call neo socket it plugged into the cigarette lighter socket and had claims of saving gasoline due to smoothing out the excess alternating current thus making a truer base for the engine computer. I know it sounds like snake oil but, would you plug your brand new flat screen into an unfiltered outlet. Anyone who appreciates high end audio video will tell you cleaner the source voltage cleaner the picture and sound.

The sales person said she had a Nissan Titan and swears she got 15 mpg from her usual 13. 59 bucks, I thought well why not. Guess what, the moment I put it in the car felt perkier and was able to go on a mountain freeway in 5th gear normally 3rd and 4th and even got 2 more mpg. (33 to 35 consistently)

Anyway, today I put in the real deal I don't know if it will be any better than my Neo Socket but, I want to free up my cell phone charger. For those who think their smarter than inventors you guys sure miss out.
 
  #112  
Old 01-13-2009, 03:17 PM
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Okay, I just added a Sun Hyper Voltage Stabilizer Mid RPM range unit to the battery and the difference is very noticeable. I say at least 2hp across the whole power band.

I unplugged my Neo Socket and had a little power loss at low rpm so I stuck it back in. I wish I never saw the negative comments on this thread or I would have been enjoying this new found power a long time ago.
 
  #113  
Old 03-05-2009, 12:05 AM
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Must be strong.... and not neg rep... ok, now

Originally Posted by 08FitSport View Post
Okay, I just added a Sun Hyper Voltage Stabilizer Mid RPM range unit to the battery and the difference is very noticeable. I say at least 2hp across the whole power band.

I unplugged my Neo Socket and had a little power loss at low rpm so I stuck it back in. I wish I never saw the negative comments on this thread or I would have been enjoying this new found power a long time ago.
Comments like this start to tick me off right away. If you are going to make claims of extra HP and smoother bla bla bla... please... go book some time on a Dyno and prove it for the rest of us.

Do a run with it on... and then a run with it off and post up the results. I would LOVE to see somebody actually post up some back to back results with these things to finally end this thread.

Otherwise I call BS on this. Sorry, but after screwing around with power mods for the past 2 years on the Fit I can tell you right now that is a total BS statement. Lots of this stuff is in your head, when you think you have done something it is enough of a placebo to actually convince you it works.

.....Gaining power from a LED covered capacitor... give me a break
 

Last edited by Sugarphreak; 03-05-2009 at 12:19 AM.
  #114  
Old 03-05-2009, 01:32 AM
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^^^ i completely agree with that.

dyno will ends all bets but it seems no one is willing to back up their power statements with nice graphs.
 
  #115  
Old 03-05-2009, 03:24 AM
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Call it as you like, Sun Voltage stabilizers have the HP gains backing their products and the place I bought it from showed me actual Dynos off some of their cars showing up to 10hp gains of course not on a 100hp car. Without the stabilizer I could not start off in second gear with out struggle now I have no problem. I am not going to Dyno my car to prove a point. If it was only BS don't you think these products would disappear. Go figure.

If you never tried it with or without the Dynoing your car how dare you call it BS. Did you ever stop and look at the theory behind the product? I've seen electronic 101 students knock this product but, common advance or field technical people know that if there's voltage fluctuations and or alternating current spikes getting through the charging system the computer is not going to be giving the right messages out hence, loss of HP. Go figure, I see AJ fought this same battle in his thread.

I also did a blind study on my wifes Murano for about a year her car read 21 mpg on her milage computer. I stuck in a Neo Socket (capacitor with led) in the back without her knowing I reset the computer and after a month and a half (several fillups) her mpgs is now at 24 mpgs. It still holds that reading today now about 5 months now. Not bad for a capacitor with led huh.

Two years of playing with cars. Dude I was hot rodding cars back in the eighties. When you call someone out make sure you can back it up.


Be strong no negative repping.


Originally Posted by Sugarphreak View Post
Must be strong.... and not neg rep... ok, now



Comments like this start to tick me off right away. If you are going to make claims of extra HP and smoother bla bla bla... please... go book some time on a Dyno and prove it for the rest of us.


Do a run with it on... and then a run with it off and post up the results. I would LOVE to see somebody actually post up some back to back results with these things to finally end this thread.

Otherwise I call BS on this. Sorry, but after screwing around with power mods for the past 2 years on the Fit I can tell you right now that is a total BS statement. Lots of this stuff is in your head, when you think you have done something it is enough of a placebo to actually convince you it works.

.....Gaining power from a LED covered capacitor... give me a break
 
  #116  
Old 03-05-2009, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by 08FitSport View Post
Call it as you like, Sun Voltage stabilizers have the HP gains backing their products and the place I bought it from showed me actual Dynos off some of their cars showing up to 10hp gains of course not on a 100hp car. Without the stabilizer I could not start off in second gear with out struggle now I have no problem. I am not going to Dyno my car to prove a point. If it was only BS don't you think these products would disappear. Go figure.

If you never tried it with or without the Dynoing your car how dare you call it BS. Did you ever stop and look at the theory behind the product? I've seen electronic 101 students knock this product but, common advance or field technical people know that if there's voltage fluctuations and or alternating current spikes getting through the charging system the computer is not going to be giving the right messages out hence, loss of HP. Go figure, I see AJ fought this same battle in his thread.

I also did a blind study on my wifes Murano for about a year her car read 21 mpg on her milage computer. I stuck in a Neo Socket (capacitor with led) in the back without her knowing I reset the computer and after a month and a half (several fillups) her mpgs is now at 24 mpgs. It still holds that reading today now about 5 months now. Not bad for a capacitor with led huh.

Two years of playing with cars. Dude I was hot rodding cars back in the eighties. When you call someone out make sure you can back it up.


Be strong no negative repping.
To be honest, it is usually out of my character to call BS on something... but getting 10hp out of this product is BS... I am sorry, but it is. You are not adding fuel, you are not adding air... you are not changing timing... the only thing you MIGHT be doing is somehow getting a better spark (although I am pretty sure you won't because of the way the ignition system on the Fit is designed)... so how are you getting more power exactly? The same logic applies to the fuel efficency.

First off I can tell you (and so can everybody else) that Honda ECU's are not mis-firing or screwing up the timing due to an oversight on the charging system. The alternator has a filter and the battery would absorbe any major power spikes. NOT TO MENTION... the ECU probably has it's own power supply all together which would have all the protection it needs from voltage fluxuations. It has to, most batteries put out 12~16 volts... thus the ECU must have protection. It is not gettting screwed up and throwing the timing out on the car... you are just getting drawn into the scam.

It just isn't feesable; unless they of course are actually micro-generators which create more power than they use... then it would work.

If Honda knew they could get 10hp and better fuel efficency out of thier car by adding a 5 cent capacitor and maybe a diode... I am sure they would have. Although they would have probably cheaped out on the main selling feature... the LEDs.

You (and wife) are probably getting better mileage from your driving habits, enviromental factors and terrain. Too many factors to give credit to this kind of product.
 

Last edited by Sugarphreak; 03-05-2009 at 02:32 PM.
  #117  
Old 03-05-2009, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kylerwho View Post
^^^ i completely agree with that.

dyno will ends all bets but it seems no one is willing to back up their power statements with nice graphs.
Except manufactures... who I am sure just fudge the test when they sell snake oil products like this

lol, this reminds me of an artical I read recently where they were testing these kinds of hoaky products;
http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...32.html?page=1

Electronic Engine Ionizer Fuel Saver
B&G Electronics at shop.store.yahoo.com/engineionizerstore, $80 for a V8.
THEY CLAIM: "Increase Gas Mileage Up to 30% Electro Chemically."


ENGINE IONIZER
The Electronic Engine Ionizer Fuel Saver consists of a couple of pieces of wire molded to some rubber blocks, which the manufacturer refers to as "capacitor blocks." There are no capacitors in them, however, as we found out during the test. The rubber blocks clip onto the spark plug wires near the plugs, and are intended to carry the "corona charge" from one cylinder's plug wire to the electrodes of the other plugs. This charge is supposed to "cause a partial breakdown in the larger hydrocarbon molecules in all the non-firing cylinders, resulting in increased combustion efficiency." Yeah. Normally, we try to prevent cross-coupling between spark plug wires to prevent crossfiring between cylinders. The Engine Ionizer seems calculated to promote crossfire.


THE DYNO SAYS: The truck we tested showed about a 15-hp loss with the Ionizer. About 10 miles into our economy test, the left bank of rubber capacitor blocks started to melt and sag onto the red-hot exhaust manifold. When smoke started to fill the dyno room, we interrupted the test and redressed the wires and capacitor blocks more securely. But when one on the right bank liquefied and dripped onto the manifold, we had flames a good 2 ft. tall, requiring the use of a 20-pound fire extinguisher. This, of course, terminated the test. Besides, most of the capacitor blocks looked like yesterday's chewing gum. Consequently, we have no comment as to the abilities of the Electronic Engine Ionizer Fuel Saver to reduce fuel consumption.
 

Last edited by Sugarphreak; 03-05-2009 at 02:51 PM.
  #118  
Old 03-05-2009, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Sugarphreak View Post
To be honest, it is usually out of my character to call BS on something... but getting 10hp out of this product is BS... I am sorry, but it is. You are not adding fuel, you are not adding air... you are not changing timing... the only thing you MIGHT be doing is somehow getting a better spark (although I am pretty sure you won't because of the way the ignition system on the Fit is designed)... so how are you getting more power exactly?
If you read my post good I said not a hundred HP car. The 10 HP gain was on 350 whp Subaru WRX.

Back to basics.If you're computer reads say an O2 sensor with a reading of faltering voltage say 12 volts instead of 14 is the signal sent back to the computer going to be accurate?, then will your injector signal be right? Or turn that steering wheel and draw 25 amps and will the voltage not drop? Or say you're diodes in the alternator starts leaking are you not going to get some ripples of AC in your DC voltage that might possibly send mixed signal out of the computer?

This is my last post here trash it if you want. It's funny how there are so much race cars with voltage stabilizers out there and other sites Subaru, Evo and other car forums that rave about the VS. We must be all be crack heads that need more weight in our engine compartments. Good luck with your venture you need it with your attitude.
 
  #119  
Old 03-05-2009, 04:59 PM
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I wasn't going to get personal but, I'm sure you know this looking at you're Dyno.

Originally Posted by Sugarphreak View Post
Except manufactures... who I am sure just fudge the test when they sell snake oil products like this

lol, this reminds me of an artical I read recently where they were testing these kinds of hoaky products;
Looking For A Miracle: We Test Automotive 'Fuel Savers' - Popular Mechanics
 
  #120  
Old 03-05-2009, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 08FitSport View Post
If you read my post good I said not a hundred HP car. The 10 HP gain was on 350 whp Subaru WRX.
Sorry, my bad. Still...

Originally Posted by 08FitSport View Post
Back to basics.If you're computer reads say an O2 sensor with a reading of faltering voltage say 12 volts instead of 14 is the signal sent back to the computer going to be accurate?, then will your injector signal be right? Or turn that steering wheel and draw 25 amps and will the voltage not drop? Or say you're diodes in the alternator starts leaking are you not going to get some ripples of AC in your DC voltage that might possibly send mixed signal out of the computer?

This is my last post here trash it if you want. It's funny how there are so much race cars with voltage stabilizers out there and other sites Subaru, Evo and other car forums that rave about the VS. We must be all be crack heads that need more weight in our engine compartments. Good luck with your venture you need it with your attitude.
I really don't know what you are trying to imply with these comments, I think the stock ignition system and ECU signals work fine in a Honda. If your O2 sensor has faultering voltage to it you have bigger problems that can't be fixed by this kind of product. I also have yet to see a real race car that uses a voltage stabilizer. (unless lets say it is owned by a company that is pumping such products)

Originally Posted by 08FitSport View Post
I wasn't going to get personal but, I'm sure you know this looking at you're Dyno.
I am not making this personal, I am just disagreeing with you... very strongly. Why? Because I feel your posts are misleading to other Fitfreaks about this product.

You have your right to an opinion, as do I. Unless I see some kind of real proof these things work I am of the opinion they are a gimmick.
 

Last edited by Sugarphreak; 03-05-2009 at 06:19 PM.

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