General Voltage Stabilizer Puzzle Thread - Unofficial Honda FIT Forums

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General Voltage Stabilizer Puzzle Thread

  #1  
Old 05-25-2007, 03:45 AM
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General Voltage Stabilizer Puzzle Thread

OK, I'm really wondering about the Voltage Stabilizer Modification Option. Frankly it seems too good to be true and smacks of so many other 'snake oil' type of modifications (Tornado and Electric Supercharger rubbish). All of the engineering types I've talked to think that the idea of a voltage stabilizer is hilarious. Many credible people, however, swear by them. Searching the internet you find as many people who think it is a gimmic as those who swear they saw improvement (mostly in idle smoothness and throttle response). Everything I have read here at Fitfreak has been positive--including those who have received the current holy grail--improved MPG.

There is an interesting bit here:
ScionLife View topic - Voltage Stabilizer DIY/Installation


I have posted questions in other threads but, in the interest of non-threadjacking, I thought I would start new here.

I guess my big question is why this is not on ANY vehicles from any factory? Like so many mods that could 'boost performance and MPG' it begs the question why, given millions of dollars spent on R&D by the manufacturers, this would not be included on SOME car SOMEWHERE. (Several other forums said that 'something like this' is included on the car already. Built into the ignition system.)

I guess the same question goes for multiple ground wires and Ignition Stabilizers. These things would cost virtually nothing to the factory but nobody sees fit to include them. It's not like they make too much noise or add excessive complexity or weight.

Heck, I'm probably going to get one regardless, if only out of curiosity, based on the positive testimonials here. I know that sometimes we spend good money on mods and we want to believe it was money well spent. This monkeys with our subjective 'butt dyno' and we heartily recommend things. The problem with this thing is that it is priced right that I can't resist!

My other question is about the potential hazards associated with the charge contained in the capacitors and if somebody could get zapped by this thing if they didn't know what it was. My question is how badly would they get zapped?
 
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Old 05-25-2007, 03:39 PM
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I work in the electronics field but I have not had a chance to see one up close so I can't comment on what it does or doesn't do.

However what you say about why the factory hasn't done it could just be that you and their test people can live without it, so why add the extra cost? Every little bit counts when lowering the COG (cost of goods) of a product, you have to think of the service life/warranty of it, R&D etc. just to add that little bit. Just a theory though, i have no idea why they would or wouldn't do it.

About the hazards, are they not enclosed in a case? I don't think you have anytihng to worry about. Also if you want to discharge the caps after removing the unit you can probably just touch the leads together and that will do it. I thought most of them have a switch to isolate the leads. I don't think its anymore or less dangerous that using jumper cables, just be careful.
 
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Old 05-26-2007, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by claymore View Post
Waste of money.
I think that the same is true of octopus ground wires as well. I do know racers who will run the ground wire all the way back up to the block when relocating a battery to the trunk but lots of little ground wires all over the engine bay...?

All negative things aside about the g-analyst, I think that I will test every mod I do against a baseline with it. I am tempted, thus, to buy a stabilizer to compare. I had my eye on T1R but e-bay is loaded with $10 voltage stabilizers and grounding kits .
 
  #4  
Old 05-26-2007, 07:41 AM
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Regretably, now days all Car manufacturers are run by accountants - not engineers, with probably only one exeption and that's Porsche.
For Voltage Stabilizer and other power/perf. adds-on, chek this: Tuner Performance Reports - magazine ; Tuner Performance Reports - TPRMag.com - We Do The Test, You Get The Best!
 
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by claymore View Post
It's been done. This long post is from OZHonda.com. The member tested before and after and things were NO BETTER with one. It's a long read but worth reading if you are thinking about getting one. Ozhonda

And that's a GOOD FIND by Misha great article by independent testers, and again NO Benefit.
I haven't read the OzHonda post b/c they want me to register using my ISP email, which I won't do, but I'd be careful about saying that the TPR article shows no benefits, because it doesn't -- it doesn't say one way or another actually. And if you look at the dyno charts, the ones for the Del Sol show consistent gains from all the products tested on it(although the Miata's seem to show no change or some losses, so I think it really depends on your car as to whether there's a benefit or not). From the charts it seems that the voltage stabilizers show the most noticeable change, whereas the ground wires are less so, and more in the low-mid range when they do have a gain. How accurate their results are is anyone's guess as they don't say if the cars are modded, stock, or what.







For my part, I do think there are some benefits received by using a stabilizer, though I think they are subtle and not really noticed by the majority of people. As mentioned earlier, that's probably why car companies don't seem to bother to put something like this on their cars usually -- why bother with the expense if your average punter doesn't care?

In my case, I just put a T1R Ignition Booster on my ride a few days ago and initially I didn't really notice much of anything, so I figured maybe it's a bust mod-wise. But then I noticed yesterday that my engine was idling a whole lot smoother than it did prior to having the booster -- originally it was rougher after putting my muffler on a while back, but now it's rock-solid. There also seems to be more snap to the engine around 3500-4000 rpm and above, and it doesn't seem quite so boggy on hills, but I haven't decided yet if that's a real gain or maybe just in my head, I'll have to drive it more. No idea on the mileage yet as still on the first tank that it was installed on. Overall I'd say I'm still up in the air about it as a mod, but the idling claims do seem to hold true in my case at least I feel.
 
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Old 05-31-2007, 03:11 AM
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the first graph shows about +7hp and +7ftlbs. that seems pretty remarkable. Is that within acceptable variations for a dyno?

really this is just a bump to see if anyone else wants to pipe in here with their experience with one of these thingies.
 
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cheffyjay View Post
the first graph shows about +7hp and +7ftlbs. that seems pretty remarkable. Is that within acceptable variations for a dyno?

really this is just a bump to see if anyone else wants to pipe in here with their experience with one of these thingies.
cheffyjay,

Thanks for the thread! I've been holding off buying any of this stuff for the same reasons as yours- sounds like b.s. I don't have any complaints about how my Fit runs. If m.p.g. gains can be proven, then my interest will increase, but I am not among the AT owners getting dismal gas mileage.

For owners of these kits, please keep posting any positive/negative results.
 
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Old 06-01-2007, 02:33 AM
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Well, hope this helps. As a follow up to my installing the T1R Ignition Booster it does seem that the mpg has increased. I'm still on the first full tank after its install, but I know that before when I hit the halfway mark it was always around 150 miles, and now I'm at 160 and just coming up on the half tank mark. Of course, won't know for sure till a real fill-up, but there's does seem to be a difference. On average I've been getting 28-29 mpg like clockwork, so if it increases from that for this tank I'd say there's something to the hype.

BTW, the first 105 miles of this tank were spent tear-assing aroung the backroads here on my day off. Lots of 60-70 mph in 4th gear, hills, etc. Much harder use than my daily norm, and I didn't even use a 1/3 of the tank, which would have been normal otherwise.
 
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Old 06-01-2007, 09:38 AM
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you seem to forget that AJ has released a VS, not only that but also an ignition booster.. id like to know more on that

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/aj-r...abilizers.html
 
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Old 06-01-2007, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sLiVeRwOrM View Post
you seem to forget that AJ has released a VS, not only that but also an ignition booster.. id like to know more on that

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/aj-r...abilizers.html
Actually, I have both, but have only installed the Ignition Booster at the moment -- partly because I'm lazy, but mostly I wanted to wait before installing the VS so I could see what effects, if any, there were from just the Booster alone. I'll probably drop the VS in after a this tank or maybe one more.
 
  #11  
Old 06-01-2007, 03:30 PM
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Wow, I think I'm in the wrong business....

Nah, I like being able to sleep at night.
 
  #12  
Old 06-02-2007, 05:06 AM
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I didnt read all the replys so it might already of been said. But most of the Voltage stabalizers ive seen that have a box, Not a normal Grounding Kit. Are just a simple capasitor, that will absorb and discharge voltage, thus smoothing it out a little bit. It could be usefull might help with the dimming of headlights and stuff when you tap the brake lights.

But you will get more use out of a Grounding Kit than the voltage Stabalizers. I wouldnt buy a kit, id just go down to Walmart or whatever and buy one of there cheep 8Gauge Amp install kits, and a bunch of Ring terminals, and make your own.

Hondas especialy older ones are plauged with old faulty ground's, I know many many 84-91 Civic/CRX/Integra owners that have electrical grelimins that go away by simply using newer larger wire and replacing all the factory grounds. And it cant hurt to add a few more in Key areas.

I know for a fact the Negative battery cable on my 87 had .4 ohm's of resistance before i replaced it. And the new wiring is 0. So it cant be all bad.
 
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Old 06-02-2007, 05:52 PM
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Thanks for initiating this tread, as I blindly but one from the group buy myself, simply because it was priced right. Now to comment on part of questionning: My other question is about the potential hazards associated with the charge contained in the capacitors and if somebody could get zapped by this thing if they didn't know what it was. My question is how badly would they get zapped?



A fully charged battery has a voltage of about 13.2V. when it is not under load.
The alternator (with built in diodes) kicks in and off with a somehow regulated voltage of 14.4V. On top of that rough voltage there is plenty of ripples and/or noise.
The capacitors within the stabilyser filtres out part of that crap (charge cycle) and promptly zaps current out upon demand (discharge cycle). It can cycle like that hundred of times per second thus delivering intantaneous peak current.
Although it is used in a relatively low voltage environment, I would discharge the module through a resitor such as ...a light bulb!

Now what it effectively does and why the car maker don't include them relates to another type of issue: even if it helps the throttle response, if it does not translate in better gas mileage under standard test conditions, why care?

P.S.: I am giving voltages numbers out of memory and have not measured them lately, so feel free to correct if needed.
 
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Old 06-02-2007, 06:21 PM
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Thus says an electrician (me)...

Voltage stabilizer = snake oil.

A capacitor is only effective at stabilizing voltages in AC (alternating current - such as in your home)... not DC (such as in your car). In an AC system, it helps to eliminate ripple current, and straighten out the waveform of the AC pulse.

However, this isn't the case in a DC system. A capacitor in a DC circuit acts as a voltage blocker. When DC power is applied to one side of the capacitor, it stores a charge on one of the plates... where it stays indefinitely until it is discharged. What does all this mean? A voltage stabilizer is useless.


If one REALLY wanted to stabilize the voltage in a DC system, a 1:1 transformer would help somewhat... but the effects would likely be minimal.


If you really want to see if a positive change has taken place with a 'voltage stabilizer' - show me an oscilloscope waveform of before and after installing the stabilizer. What you'll find is there is ZERO change.

Can we please drop this subject of voltage stabilizers and assign it to the halls of urban legends?
 
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Old 06-02-2007, 10:06 PM
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TO:AppleMac*FIT,do you have a voltage stabilizer in your honda fit?if you do could you please post some pictures?
 
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Old 06-03-2007, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by AppleMac*Fit View Post
Thus says an electrician (me)...

Voltage stabilizer = snake oil.

A capacitor is only effective at stabilizing voltages in AC (alternating current - such as in your home)... not DC (such as in your car). In an AC system, it helps to eliminate ripple current, and straighten out the waveform of the AC pulse.

However, this isn't the case in a DC system. A capacitor in a DC circuit acts as a voltage blocker. When DC power is applied to one side of the capacitor, it stores a charge on one of the plates... where it stays indefinitely until it is discharged. What does all this mean? A voltage stabilizer is useless.


If one REALLY wanted to stabilize the voltage in a DC system, a 1:1 transformer would help somewhat... but the effects would likely be minimal.


If you really want to see if a positive change has taken place with a 'voltage stabilizer' - show me an oscilloscope waveform of before and after installing the stabilizer. What you'll find is there is ZERO change.

Can we please drop this subject of voltage stabilizers and assign it to the halls of urban legends?
You can come up with all the reasons you like why it shouldn't work, but the fact is it does.

Today I had to fill up before going to autox this morning. It was the first fillup after installing the T1R Ignition Booster I bought a while back. To date, I have been getting 28-29 mpg like clockwork for a year. Calculated mileage from the tank w/ the Booster -- 33.4 mpg. The ONLY difference was the addition of the booster -- same gas station I always use, same pump for the most part, same driving I always do. Now, if it was like 30-31 mpg, then maybe I'd still have a fair amount of doubt about the booster, but 33.4 is a significant change. Tie that in with the noticed improved idling as well, and I say it does what it promised. You can argue all day about why it shouldn't or should work, I don't care -- it made a difference, and not a subjective difference either, but a measureable, quantifiable change. Of course, I'm going to keep tabs on future tanks as well and average it all over time, but I don't expect too much change from the results I got with this tank.

Do with this info what you will, I'm only reporting my experience with the product.
 
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Old 06-03-2007, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by boyetssilverfit View Post
TO:AppleMac*FIT,do you have a voltage stabilizer in your honda fit?if you do could you please post some pictures?
I think it is tricolor to whom you'd want to address that. Sounds like AppleMac*FIT wouldn't hear of such a thing.
 
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Old 06-03-2007, 11:57 AM
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BTW, to answer the question about a shock hazard from these things -- the T1R booster has a light on it when there's juice in it. Soon as you turn off the car you can watch the light hold for a few sec then gradually fade away as the charge dissipates. It holds a charge maybe 10 secs tops and even that's maybe a bit long. I think that unless someone was messing with it with the car on, or w/i that ~10sec window, there's no current left in it to shock someone.
 
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Old 06-03-2007, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cheffyjay View Post
I think it is tricolor to whom you'd want to address that. Sounds like AppleMac*FIT wouldn't hear of such a thing.
i dont mean to be rude but i clearly stated to whom i'm requesting to post a picture,i'm requesting AppleMAC*Fit if he could post some pictures so maybe some fitfreak members will believe him or not believe him.
 
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Old 06-03-2007, 02:15 PM
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Exclamation

Originally Posted by Chikubi View Post
You can come up with all the reasons you like why it shouldn't work, but the fact is it does... You can argue all day about why it shouldn't or should work, I don't care -- it made a difference, and not a subjective difference either, but a measureable, quantifiable change. Of course, I'm going to keep tabs on future tanks as well and average it all over time, but I don't expect too much change from the results I got with this tank.

Do with this info what you will, I'm only reporting my experience with the product.

I didn't state why it "shouldn't" work... I stated, scientifically, why it CANNOT work. Furthermore, your reasons for why it 'does' work ARE SUBJECTIVE. Show me an oscilloscope print out of the waveforms before & after installing the voltage stabilizer. HINT - they'll be the same waveforms, for the reasons I mentioned before.

That's fine if you want to believe your voltage stabilizer works. Many folks still believe the earth is flat.

To anyone else pondering the purchase, with the reasoning "Hey, it might work, right!?! Plus it doesn't cost a whole lot!"... I offer this: don't waste your money, there's no science to it. Please read my initial post for WHY it will not work. If science doesn't interest you - feel free to purchase a voltage stabilizer. I suggest saving your money.
 

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