Hi,

For those who are using the Spoon drop-in air filter, do you notice significant improvement over the stock filter and does anyone know how it compares with the K&N one?

Thanks

WK

 

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-...t=spoon+filter

according to this dyno test, spoon drop-in = fail

 

spoon scratch that spoonful

 

Thanks kennef, great info.

 

Perhaps the filter is designed to work with all the other spoon bolt-ons. Not saying the dyno was incorrect but I know a lot of manufacters design their products to perform based on a combo with their other products.

I am getting ready to do a few dyno sessions with my mugen drop in, header, and muffler to see what it does with all 3, and then with one gone and then another. Also tossing in my Panducky Cam to see how it performs with all of it.

and btw I did say Cam

 

Also factor in the car was probly cold when it did the first two pulls with the oem filter and probly warmed up and hot when it did the last two runs with the spoon filter.

 

I'm almost willing to bet the filter MADE power....


I mean look at it....

they did 4 pulls in a little less than 5 minutes.... and expect the dyno graph to be consistant? C'mon, you have to let the car cool down...

On top of that, the humidity from run one to run 4 changed 1% (which is a LOT), and the temperature changed by .6 degree warmer.

Between that and the super-speedy runs, i don't doubt one bit that the car made less power... it probably would have made even LESS power if it had the stock filter in it for run #4...



Do the same thing with your precious T1R intakes, and i'll bet they will "lose power" to.

 

i gotta diagree brotha. 5 mins is plenty of time between dyno runs for a car like the fit with the stock intake (plus mugen drop-in). i say that because
1. the fit is NA, and a low power NA at that. we aren't talking about a big turbo that pushes a massive volume of hot, compressed air through an intercooler that will get heat soaked due to lack of air flow. we're talking 109hp, NA.
2. the stock intake is FRP (correct me if i'm wrong) and does not conduct heat very well. meaning that the heat from the fit's motor, which doesn't generate much heat to begin with, isn't heating up air intake temps such that the ECU is retarding timing due to knock. at least, that's what i'd bet on in vegas.

 

It's not just about intake temps, it's about the heat that's contained in the cylinder walls and the actual engine, which isn't given a chance to normalise between runs that close. Not saying the motor is gonna explode or something, but it's not a good way to get consistent conditions to have comparable runs. Four runs in five minutes including the filter change means there was no more than a minute between runs... IF the person changing the filter was really fast (stepping around the fans and all).

 

what, the intake plenum is the only place where heatsoak can be considered to cause power loss? ...the issue is not the intake manifold, but the heat the engine has in it in general in it... the expansion of the pistons, the expansion of the cylinder walls, and the temperature that both have in them, etc... much more to it than the intake plenum.... and only the plenum portion of the intake is plastic, the main portion of the runners are still aluminum.

Also, a key number there is the humidity and the room temperature printed on the dyno sheet. Those two items can and will alter the way that dyno interprets power. Also, they will change the way the car makes or doesn't make power. lets also not forget that maybe since it is a "lowly" little 109hp, maybe they didn't put the fan on... or maybe they were doing it with little airflow, which can affect the oxygen/co2 count in the air... tire temperature increases tire pressure which can affect how tight the car is pushing against the rollers.... i.e. on cold tires, strap the car down, heat the tires up by 2-3psi which is common in hot tires, and it will push against the roller harder causing more drag....

not to mention the Dynojet is not exactly the most accurate thing out there anyway. being off by a hp or two is "close enough" on those things...

There are too many variables to call this one conclusive IMHO...

Many people are too quick to jump on a conclusion without examining facts more. I don't think the Spoon filter is debunked here at all. I'd bet that the same thing would happen with the Mugen filter in the exact same circumstances... as well as T1R, etc...


What i'd really like to see, is someone put the stock filter and the spoon, and mugen to a MUCH more conclusive test... stick em on an actual flowbench, and see what the results are from that. Cone-filter based setups shouldn't be added to the test, or tested against, because its simple to see that those will outflow a flat filter, cause there is more surface area... but i want to see the stock-replacement based ones.

 

The point I was trying to make with the dyno was that the drop-in filters (well at least Spoon) doesn't live up to the hype. I think it's about equal to stock.

 

Right... but your test isn't done in a way that can yield accurate results, that's our point.

 

Well if someone is willing to put down the money to do an “accurate” test otherwise this is as close as it gets. Plus there is no way you can get all variable / factors the same, it's impossible. I mean, if I were to cool down the engine, the ambient temperature may go up or down and then you guys will say the same thing. That’s why I said 2hp is probably within the standard deviation of a dyno especially a Dynojet. Of course 2hp may seems a lot when within the relative graph for a low powered, but probably wouldn’t mean a thing if it was some 300+hp car.

 

That is normally true with the deviation but to do the runs that close together is very hurtful to the results. I am happy that at least someone is doing more than just saying my car feels slower/faster. Like said I am going to a dyno here shortly (waiting on a few things) and doing several tests to see how the mugen filter does and how other mods I have do vs stock.

 

Anybody question whether the car was given adequate time to adjust to the influx of less restricted air? I imagine he turned the car off, swapped the filters, and started it back up for another run. I remember back in the day, whenever I added engine mods to my Si, I would have to reset the ecu so it can adjust. I don't know if that still applies today, but I'm just throwing the idea up in the air.

Also, I'm a bit disturbed how easily people buy into the discreditation of this product with only one session on the dyno. A reputable company like Spoon puts in a lot of research and development into its products which would include multiple sessions on the dyno in a controlled environment. I think, if there were more dyno results that displayed similar power loss, then I would be more receptive to the idea that Spoon filters are flawed.

 

I had wondered that too as it was the same with my Mitsu Mirage. Not only was it a ECU reset but it was also around a 10 minute idle for the ECU to rethink and set defaults. Followed by a typical drive for the ECU to learn driving inputs for typical use. If i didn't take the time to do this when adding or deleting parts on that car it ran like like crap.

 

I gonna get the K&N Filter, Better value

 

theres probably some kind of jdm air filter adjuster that needs to be installed on the fit when putting a drop in air filter power adder in there. i hope they disconnected the battery when they changed the filters out, if not they would have fried the computer.

 

your sarcasm doesn't contribute anything to this topic. Take it somewhere else. These are real questions and ideas. If you want to state your opinion, then say it in a respectful manner.

 

The filters do something...as to say how much that is to be known later. I know that just with an axle back exhaust, header, and drop in filter I dropped from an 18.8 to a 17.0 in the 1/4 mile and gained about 7-8mph. I am sure the exhaust parts added a lot but i doubt they did that alone. We at Panducky will be doing more tests once more products are finished and here. I do not have the Spoon drop in but I do have the Mugen. When we do our testing we will show several runs with differant setups to show an avg of what the products do.