VTEC Light for USDM FIT Completed!
#41
11-22-2006, 07:16 AM
What is the purpose of the relay? Seems to me that the current required to energize the relay would be higher then the current required to light the LED. Is the purpose of the relay to minimize loading on the ECM? Also, relay coils can produce very high voltage spikes when turned off and could damage your ECM. Must make sure to use some kind of voltage spike suppression on the relay coil.
#42
11-22-2006, 08:11 AM
Strange, I saw the videos, man the car sounds really nice. What mods do you have? headers? Anyway, Maybe me, but, I saw the light on just before 3k, not in the 3.4k RPM's.
Anybody?
Anybody?
#43
11-22-2006, 09:31 AM
The video to sound ratio was slow. My digi-cam is old sorry for the in-accurace is visuals. you just have to listen to what I said in the video.
As for Mods, I have Fujita CAI, custom 2 and 1/4" B-pipe, Fujitsubo Wagolis, GTSpec lightweight crank pulley. That's it for engine performance.
As for Mods, I have Fujita CAI, custom 2 and 1/4" B-pipe, Fujitsubo Wagolis, GTSpec lightweight crank pulley. That's it for engine performance.
#45
11-22-2006, 09:58 AM
Originally Posted by FITforKRUG
What is the purpose of the relay? Seems to me that the current required to energize the relay would be higher then the current required to light the LED. Is the purpose of the relay to minimize loading on the ECM? Also, relay coils can produce very high voltage spikes when turned off and could damage your ECM. Must make sure to use some kind of voltage spike suppression on the relay coil.
You do know that in a relay there are 2 completely different circuits operating yes? The second is going to draw the amount of amperage needed from the live B+ wire of the relay circuit based on resistance in the circuit. We have the LED and a resistor of 330 ohms. THe draw is correct to light the bulb adaquately without blowing anything up!
As for when the Relay de-energizes and voltage spikes would only happen on the LED circuit (the switched current side), not the on/off reference lead (Vtec Wire).
Remember relays take a small amount of voltage to actuate X amp of voltage, depending on the amp of the relay and the current in the circuit you are activating.
#46
11-22-2006, 11:27 AM
I wonder if the VTEC engage points are different between the CVT, AT, and MT vehicles. Someone (me?) will have to do this to an AT and report the results.
#47
11-22-2006, 09:17 PM
Nice job!
BTW, this will work on any VTEC engine. It might be a different wire on the PCM in different cars, so check first 'tho.
The only advantage to using the relay is the ability to use a different power source for the LED. The safety argument is negated because the relay coil is probably more likely to short out then an LED.
If you're really worried about something shorting just throw a 0.5A fast-blow in-line fuse onto the wire coming off the solenoid B+ signal, as close to the wire tap as possible.
I wouldn't worry about driving a 25mA LED straight off of the solenoid B+ circuit. You might want to think twice before using an incandescent bulb 'tho.
If you're just using a ~25mA LED why not use a PhotoDarlington OptoCoupler? Google for "4N33". You'll want one with a continuous collector current (sometimes labeled "Ic" on the datasheets) at least as great as the mA rating of the LED you're planning to use. Since most are in the 100~150mA range they should have no problem switching a small LED.
And the 4N33 will optically isolate the computer from the dimming circuit.
Using a 4N33 as a solid state relay, you should be able to drive the LED off the dash light circuit, and have it dim with the rest of the dash stuff.
Maybe I'll try it.
I'll have to go look in my Fit and see which things dim.
Anybody got any pictures of the back of the dash?
edit: BTW, a 4N33 should cost you about $0.50 online.
edit2: http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea...860&Row=202013
BTW, this will work on any VTEC engine. It might be a different wire on the PCM in different cars, so check first 'tho.
The only advantage to using the relay is the ability to use a different power source for the LED. The safety argument is negated because the relay coil is probably more likely to short out then an LED.
If you're really worried about something shorting just throw a 0.5A fast-blow in-line fuse onto the wire coming off the solenoid B+ signal, as close to the wire tap as possible.
I wouldn't worry about driving a 25mA LED straight off of the solenoid B+ circuit. You might want to think twice before using an incandescent bulb 'tho.
If you're just using a ~25mA LED why not use a PhotoDarlington OptoCoupler? Google for "4N33". You'll want one with a continuous collector current (sometimes labeled "Ic" on the datasheets) at least as great as the mA rating of the LED you're planning to use. Since most are in the 100~150mA range they should have no problem switching a small LED.
And the 4N33 will optically isolate the computer from the dimming circuit.
Using a 4N33 as a solid state relay, you should be able to drive the LED off the dash light circuit, and have it dim with the rest of the dash stuff.
Maybe I'll try it.
I'll have to go look in my Fit and see which things dim.
Anybody got any pictures of the back of the dash?
edit: BTW, a 4N33 should cost you about $0.50 online.
edit2: http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea...860&Row=202013
Last edited by JCLW; 11-26-2006 at 04:27 PM.
#49
11-22-2006, 10:02 PM
Someone that Posts too much
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 711
#50
11-22-2006, 10:03 PM
#51
11-22-2006, 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by sillypuddy
where did you get the jdm manual?
-joe
-joe
#52
11-23-2006, 09:14 PM
Post your light when you are done! and inform us exactly what you did to tap into the dimmer function!
#53
11-23-2006, 10:46 PM
This is what I'm planning:
Fuses F1 and F2 are optional.
Using a 1k resistor for R1 should allow operation down to 11.2VDC, and protect the 4N33 from 18V+ on the high end. I havn't checked the running voltage of my fit, but I assume its around 14V. The PCM VTEC solenoid line may also be regulated to 12V, or similar. Either way, it'll work.
Using a 510 ohm resistor for R2 should work for your standard 3mm blue 3.4V 20mA LED. This resistor can be changed to adjust overall brightness, or to allow use of different colour/size LEDs.
Remember the dimmer circuit on the radio varies the grnd reference up, not the +12VDC line down.
PCM GRND: Use chasis ground
PCM VTEC +: B6 (GRN/YEL)
RADIO 12VDC: A17 (WHT/RED)
RADIO DIM -: A1 (RED)
Fuses F1 and F2 are optional.
Using a 1k resistor for R1 should allow operation down to 11.2VDC, and protect the 4N33 from 18V+ on the high end. I havn't checked the running voltage of my fit, but I assume its around 14V. The PCM VTEC solenoid line may also be regulated to 12V, or similar. Either way, it'll work.
Using a 510 ohm resistor for R2 should work for your standard 3mm blue 3.4V 20mA LED. This resistor can be changed to adjust overall brightness, or to allow use of different colour/size LEDs.
Remember the dimmer circuit on the radio varies the grnd reference up, not the +12VDC line down.
PCM GRND: Use chasis ground
PCM VTEC +: B6 (GRN/YEL)
RADIO 12VDC: A17 (WHT/RED)
RADIO DIM -: A1 (RED)
Last edited by JCLW; 11-26-2006 at 04:24 PM.
#54
11-25-2006, 10:13 PM
Well I didn't get anything done or tested in the car today, but I started on the electronics.
This will be my official parts list, and will be edited as I work. URLs listed are well known places that you can easily get the parts from, but not neccesarily where I got them. The prices I list are what I paid in CDN$, just as a guide.
$0.75 - 1x 4N33 PhotoDarlington OptoCoupler (http://www.digikey.com/)
$0.10 - 1x 1000 ohm (1K), 1/4W, 5% carbon film resistor (http://www.digikey.com/)
$0.10 - 1x 510 or 560 ohm, 1/4W, 5% carbon film resistor (http://www.digikey.com/)
$0.75 - 1x 5mm blue LED (http://www.digikey.com/)
$6.00 - 12' of 20/2 cable (http://www.westmarine.com)
$2.50 - 1x pack of 1/8" heat shrink tubing (http://www.westmarine.com)
$0.50 - 1x 3/4 copper sweat cap (local hardware store)
$5.00 - 1x tube of 5min epoxy (local hardware store)
$1.50 - Piece of double sided thermal tape (local computer store)
$0.50 - 1/4" small (red) ring terminal (local computer store)
--------
$18.20
Notes:
Ended up using a Motorola 4N33, because they were in stock and the Fairchild ones weren't. Exactly the same specs.
I'm using a 560 ohm resistor for R2 (because I thought I had a 510 but I didn't). This should drive my blue LED at about 20mA, which is perfect.
This will be my official parts list, and will be edited as I work. URLs listed are well known places that you can easily get the parts from, but not neccesarily where I got them. The prices I list are what I paid in CDN$, just as a guide.
$0.75 - 1x 4N33 PhotoDarlington OptoCoupler (http://www.digikey.com/)
$0.10 - 1x 1000 ohm (1K), 1/4W, 5% carbon film resistor (http://www.digikey.com/)
$0.10 - 1x 510 or 560 ohm, 1/4W, 5% carbon film resistor (http://www.digikey.com/)
$0.75 - 1x 5mm blue LED (http://www.digikey.com/)
$6.00 - 12' of 20/2 cable (http://www.westmarine.com)
$2.50 - 1x pack of 1/8" heat shrink tubing (http://www.westmarine.com)
$0.50 - 1x 3/4 copper sweat cap (local hardware store)
$5.00 - 1x tube of 5min epoxy (local hardware store)
$1.50 - Piece of double sided thermal tape (local computer store)
$0.50 - 1/4" small (red) ring terminal (local computer store)
--------
$18.20
Notes:
Ended up using a Motorola 4N33, because they were in stock and the Fairchild ones weren't. Exactly the same specs.
I'm using a 560 ohm resistor for R2 (because I thought I had a 510 but I didn't). This should drive my blue LED at about 20mA, which is perfect.
Last edited by JCLW; 11-28-2006 at 08:25 PM.
#55
11-25-2006, 10:36 PM
Putting together the 4N33:
You'll want to use a soldering iron with an output of around 15W. Anything more and you will risk damaging the components.
And I highly recommend silver bearing electronics solder (available at Radio Shack or equivalent).
Cut off one foot of 20/2 cable, and strip the jacket off. You should be left with two wires (one red, one black). The red wire will go to pin 1 (one) and the black wire (with the 1k resistor) will go to pin 2 (two).
Strip about 1-1/2" (one and a half) inches of the jacket off of one end of the remaining cable. Because a resistor goes in-line the black wire will have to be cut shorter. The red wire will go on pin 4 (four), and the black wire (with the 510 ohm resistor) will go on pin 5 (five).
Solder all the resistors and wires to the 4N33 according to the diagram a few posts above. If you haven't printed out the diagram I'd suggest doing it before you start.
There should be a dot on the top of the chip, which marks pin 1 (one).
Dip the leads/wires in acid paste flux and pre-tin them before trying to join things together.
Trim the leads on the resistors, so they are just aprox 1/4" long.
Note: In these pictures I have a yellow wire going to pin 1, not red.
Now cut a piece of thermal tape the size of the 4N33, and stick it on the top. Make sure you get all the air bubbles out.
Peel off the backing and stick the whole assembly into the base of the 3/4" copper sweat cap. This way the copper cap will act as a heatsink for the 4N33.
Once your 4N33 is stuck in the cap, mix up your 5min epoxy and fill the cap up to the brim. It should totally cover the 4N33 (obviously - since it's at the bottom), the resistors, and any bare wires.
Now you have a nice little bullet-proof PhotoDarlington OptoCoupler
You'll want to use a soldering iron with an output of around 15W. Anything more and you will risk damaging the components.
And I highly recommend silver bearing electronics solder (available at Radio Shack or equivalent).
Cut off one foot of 20/2 cable, and strip the jacket off. You should be left with two wires (one red, one black). The red wire will go to pin 1 (one) and the black wire (with the 1k resistor) will go to pin 2 (two).
Strip about 1-1/2" (one and a half) inches of the jacket off of one end of the remaining cable. Because a resistor goes in-line the black wire will have to be cut shorter. The red wire will go on pin 4 (four), and the black wire (with the 510 ohm resistor) will go on pin 5 (five).
Solder all the resistors and wires to the 4N33 according to the diagram a few posts above. If you haven't printed out the diagram I'd suggest doing it before you start.
There should be a dot on the top of the chip, which marks pin 1 (one).
Dip the leads/wires in acid paste flux and pre-tin them before trying to join things together.
Trim the leads on the resistors, so they are just aprox 1/4" long.
Note: In these pictures I have a yellow wire going to pin 1, not red.
Now cut a piece of thermal tape the size of the 4N33, and stick it on the top. Make sure you get all the air bubbles out.
Peel off the backing and stick the whole assembly into the base of the 3/4" copper sweat cap. This way the copper cap will act as a heatsink for the 4N33.
Once your 4N33 is stuck in the cap, mix up your 5min epoxy and fill the cap up to the brim. It should totally cover the 4N33 (obviously - since it's at the bottom), the resistors, and any bare wires.
Now you have a nice little bullet-proof PhotoDarlington OptoCoupler
Last edited by JCLW; 11-28-2006 at 08:26 PM.
#56
11-26-2006, 04:16 PM
Running the wiring:
You'll need to take a few things apart. Glove box and Radio/heater controls in particular. It's all pretty straight forward, and covered in the ESM: https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4735.
The radio is hard to get out - reach through from the glove compartment hole and push the radio from behind. There are lots of little clips. With my automatic I had to move the gearshift to "1" in order to make room.
When you remove the heat/AC control push/pull cables, use a permanent marker to mark where they are secured in the clips - this way it'll be easy to put them back in the right place.
Next, secure the 4N33 package (with cable ties) down near the PCM (passenger side, behind where the glove box used to be, lots of wires & plugs...). Run the wire up beside the existing harness, along the top of the metal reinforcing tube, and follow the audio sub-harness down to the radio. Cable tie the new wire to the harness every 8" or so.
Next, cut your new wire off - leaving enough room to solder the Red wire onto the plug's red wire. Strip about 3/16" of insulation off the Red wire coming out the the plug. Solder (or wire tap) Red to Red.
Now, take the piece of remaining wire and solder (or wire tap) that Red to the White/Red wire on the plug. The two blacks get soldered (or wire tapped) together, and heatshrunk. Tape up the solder joints on the Reds, and put a small cable tie on top to keep the electrical tape from coming off. Ideally we would take the pins out, and slip heatshrink over the solder joint, but I couldn't get them out.
The remaing wire gets fed to where ever you want your LED. There is lots of room under the steering wheel to feed it.
After feeding the remaining wire to your LED location, you can put the radio and heater/AC controls back together. Make sure you have all the plugs connected, and the push/pull cables operate correctly.
Next, over at the 4N33, solder (or wire tap) the Red wire onto the Green/Yellow wire on the "B" connector (white, 2nd from firewall/front of car). It is located in position B6.
Then, solder a 1/4" small (Red) ring connector onto the Black wire and secure it under the PCM mounting bolt that should be right in front of you.
You can put your glove compartment back together at this point.
Then mount your LED and connect it. Don't forget that LEDs are polarity sensitive. It won't work if it's connected the wrong way, but it won't hurt anything either. I found that my LED was still a bit bright, so I added another resistor at the LED end. You can play with different resistors to get the desired brightness (it doesn't matter which side of the LED you connect them to).
I'll cover how I mounted my LED when I finalize it.
And now your LED will dim with the dash lights.
You'll need to take a few things apart. Glove box and Radio/heater controls in particular. It's all pretty straight forward, and covered in the ESM: https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4735.
The radio is hard to get out - reach through from the glove compartment hole and push the radio from behind. There are lots of little clips. With my automatic I had to move the gearshift to "1" in order to make room.
When you remove the heat/AC control push/pull cables, use a permanent marker to mark where they are secured in the clips - this way it'll be easy to put them back in the right place.
Next, secure the 4N33 package (with cable ties) down near the PCM (passenger side, behind where the glove box used to be, lots of wires & plugs...). Run the wire up beside the existing harness, along the top of the metal reinforcing tube, and follow the audio sub-harness down to the radio. Cable tie the new wire to the harness every 8" or so.
Next, cut your new wire off - leaving enough room to solder the Red wire onto the plug's red wire. Strip about 3/16" of insulation off the Red wire coming out the the plug. Solder (or wire tap) Red to Red.
Now, take the piece of remaining wire and solder (or wire tap) that Red to the White/Red wire on the plug. The two blacks get soldered (or wire tapped) together, and heatshrunk. Tape up the solder joints on the Reds, and put a small cable tie on top to keep the electrical tape from coming off. Ideally we would take the pins out, and slip heatshrink over the solder joint, but I couldn't get them out.
The remaing wire gets fed to where ever you want your LED. There is lots of room under the steering wheel to feed it.
After feeding the remaining wire to your LED location, you can put the radio and heater/AC controls back together. Make sure you have all the plugs connected, and the push/pull cables operate correctly.
Next, over at the 4N33, solder (or wire tap) the Red wire onto the Green/Yellow wire on the "B" connector (white, 2nd from firewall/front of car). It is located in position B6.
Then, solder a 1/4" small (Red) ring connector onto the Black wire and secure it under the PCM mounting bolt that should be right in front of you.
You can put your glove compartment back together at this point.
Then mount your LED and connect it. Don't forget that LEDs are polarity sensitive. It won't work if it's connected the wrong way, but it won't hurt anything either. I found that my LED was still a bit bright, so I added another resistor at the LED end. You can play with different resistors to get the desired brightness (it doesn't matter which side of the LED you connect them to).
I'll cover how I mounted my LED when I finalize it.
And now your LED will dim with the dash lights.
Last edited by JCLW; 11-28-2006 at 08:22 PM.
#57
11-26-2006, 06:58 PM
I just installed a variable resistor 5k ohms, and now I can turn it down to a nice night time brightness, and turn it up to a nice visible day time brightness!
JCWL, I know that you did all of the above to get dimming automatically, you didn't describe whether that is working or not? Since it is too bright, get a couple of K ohm resistors and you will be good!
JCWL, I know that you did all of the above to get dimming automatically, you didn't describe whether that is working or not? Since it is too bright, get a couple of K ohm resistors and you will be good!
#58
11-26-2006, 09:46 PM
Yes, the dimming works perfectly.
With the headlights off the voltage is ~12VDC. With the headlights on the car's dimming circuit allows you to vary it between ~10VDC and ~5VDC (thanks to kps for noticing my earlier error).
People will have to play around with different resistors, because every different kind of LED will be dimmer or brighter.
I'm going to wait until I have my LED mounted where I want it, before I make a final resistor choice.
With the headlights off the voltage is ~12VDC. With the headlights on the car's dimming circuit allows you to vary it between ~10VDC and ~5VDC (thanks to kps for noticing my earlier error).
People will have to play around with different resistors, because every different kind of LED will be dimmer or brighter.
I'm going to wait until I have my LED mounted where I want it, before I make a final resistor choice.
Last edited by JCLW; 11-30-2006 at 09:13 PM.
#59
11-27-2006, 09:30 AM
I used a volume control dcv 5k ohm resistor, this way i can even cut the power completely if I want.
But your automatic dimming job was well researched! Next one I put on someone else's FIT, i'll try your method!
But your automatic dimming job was well researched! Next one I put on someone else's FIT, i'll try your method!
#60
11-28-2006, 08:40 PM
OK, updated the pics.
With the automatic transmission VTEC seems to engage anytime after 2400rpm (depending on throttle position). It engages more often then I would have thought driving around the city (I don't push the car very hard at all while city driving. I haven't been on the highway since I installed the indicator, but I'm going on a road trip this weekend so I'll post some more thoughts next week.
With the automatic transmission VTEC seems to engage anytime after 2400rpm (depending on throttle position). It engages more often then I would have thought driving around the city (I don't push the car very hard at all while city driving. I haven't been on the highway since I installed the indicator, but I'm going on a road trip this weekend so I'll post some more thoughts next week.