So the Radiator boils over on my 97 Accord, and I start the diagnosis
process, T-stat is OK so I get to step two and find that the rad.fan
motor does not respond to direct voltage except for an initial turn.
So I replace the motor and all is well.

I decide to pull the back off of the old motor see the cause of
failure. As I suspected it is normal wear on the brushes.

So here is the rant. why don't they sell brush kits to replace these
things with. I pay fifty bucks for a new motor when I need a ten cent
pair of brushes, (even if they were five bucks as a service item, I
wouldn't complain). And I throw away a handful of copper, steel,
plastic, that is essentially functional if they sold the brushes. And
the commodity price for all those items continues to inflate as they
become more scarce. I guess we will worry when we run slap out.

 

Well... don't be so sure that all you needed is a pair of brushes.
Often when just the brushes are replaced... they don't last long
because the surface they ride on needs attention. That's why when
electric motors are reconditioned, they not only change the brushes...
they work on resurfacing the commutator amounst other things. Don't be
so mad... just think of all the money you saved by diagnosing the
problem yourself.

Professor
Check out FlashAlert at www.telstar-electronics.com

 

The seam between the plastic and aluminum part at the top of my 97
accord's radiator split - so be careful and stop if you start getting
that sweet smell - warp the heads on an aluminum block/head engine and
it is all over.

 

Commutator looked and felt good. Just wasn't any brush left for the
spring to push against it. I used to work for a tool company that
used universal motors in the tools. A commutator can usually stand up
to a bunch of brush changes before the whole thing goes. These are
$75-400 tools and they all have user replaceable brushes.

I'm also old enough to remember back when all of these types of
motors, generators, alternators, on cars could be user repaired or
rebuilt.

My position stands. We have become a very wasteful society.

Frank

On 30 Jun 2005 11:06:18 -0700, "Professor"
<briangriffey@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Well... don't be so sure that all you needed is a pair of brushes.
>Often when just the brushes are replaced... they don't last long
>because the surface they ride on needs attention. That's why when
>electric motors are reconditioned, they not only change the brushes...
>they work on resurfacing the commutator amounst other things. Don't be
>so mad... just think of all the money you saved by diagnosing the
>problem yourself.
>
>Professor
>Check out FlashAlert at www.telstar-electronics.com

 

Frank Boettcher wrote:
>
> Commutator looked and felt good. Just wasn't any brush left for the
> spring to push against it. I used to work for a tool company that
> used universal motors in the tools. A commutator can usually stand up
> to a bunch of brush changes before the whole thing goes. These are
> $75-400 tools and they all have user replaceable brushes.
>
> I'm also old enough to remember back when all of these types of
> motors, generators, alternators, on cars could be user repaired or
> rebuilt.

Holy crap, I do as well!

> My position stands. We have become a very wasteful society.

That's for certain - it's the US economic model, don't repair, replace &
boost sales.

 

Frank Boettcher wrote:
> So here is the rant. why don't they sell brush kits to replace these
> things with.

why not go to a place that repairs electrical motors and buy some
brushes from them? if they dont have some that fit, im sure they could
grind some down. chances are its a standard size/style/type.

 

Frank Boettcher wrote:
> I'm also old enough to remember back when all of these types of
> motors, generators, alternators, on cars could be user repaired or
> rebuilt.

they can be. i pass by a place that rebuilds that stuff.

 

Frank Boettcher wrote:
> So the Radiator boils over on my 97 Accord, and I start the diagnosis
> process, T-stat is OK so I get to step two and find that the rad.fan
> motor does not respond to direct voltage except for an initial turn.
> So I replace the motor and all is well.
>
> I decide to pull the back off of the old motor see the cause of
> failure. As I suspected it is normal wear on the brushes.
>
> So here is the rant. why don't they sell brush kits to replace these
> things with. I pay fifty bucks for a new motor when I need a ten cent
> pair of brushes, (even if they were five bucks as a service item, I
> wouldn't complain). And I throw away a handful of copper, steel,
> plastic, that is essentially functional if they sold the brushes. And
> the commodity price for all those items continues to inflate as they
> become more scarce. I guess we will worry when we run slap out.

as stated by others, you have no guarantee this is a long term fix.
bearings, commutator, windings, all can go. replacing the unit is /the/
reliable solution. particularly if you are a garage/dealer and don't
want some upset [potentially ex] customer coming back in 6 weeks
demanding another repair, only this time for free. also factor in the
cost of labor. the cost for removing & refitting is the same for repair
or replacement, so cancel that out of the equation. now we have the
time for disassembly, diagnosis, repair, testing, reassembly. assuming
it's fixed right first time, that may be only 1 hour [minimum charge].
if the motor then proves defective, you've wasted 1 hour's worth of
labor charge, /and/ you still have to replace the motor on top of that.
it's just not economic unless you're doing it all yourself. and you
figure your time is free.

 

In article <mgj8c1tujdd10kr4l05lfs2tknp9fsj7c4@4ax.com>,
Frank Boettcher <fboettcher@comcast.net> wrote:

> Commutator looked and felt good. Just wasn't any brush left for the
> spring to push against it. I used to work for a tool company that
> used universal motors in the tools. A commutator can usually stand up
> to a bunch of brush changes before the whole thing goes. These are
> $75-400 tools and they all have user replaceable brushes.
>
> I'm also old enough to remember back when all of these types of
> motors, generators, alternators, on cars could be user repaired or
> rebuilt.
>
> My position stands. We have become a very wasteful society.
>
> Frank

Of course tools have replaceable brushes. The grit of machined material
destroys them in a hurry. Brushes in sealed motors can easily last long
enough to wear through the commutator or outlive the bearings.

Many autoparts stores buy back parts so they can be rebuilt. You don't
have to waste that big chunk of iron and copper. You can also still buy
brushes at motor shops, though rebuilding is probably the better way to
go on an important car part.

 

I understand perfectly that commercial shops can't take the time to
crack open these little motors and diagnose the problems. But when I
open it up and see that the commutator is clean and smooth, and that
the bearings are free and quiet and there is no radial or axial play
in the shaft, I'm willing to take the chance on replacing the brushes.
I'm not talking about a user rebuild, only replacing the brushes.
Unless a motor has an electric brake all the other components should
be able to outlast several sets of brushes. Electric brakes are very
hard on universal motors, tend to scorch the commutator.

I'm researching where I can get some brushes now. If I'm successful,
maybe I'll Post an FAQ guide to doing this.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:34:37 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net>
wrote:

>Frank Boettcher wrote:
>> So the Radiator boils over on my 97 Accord, and I start the diagnosis
>> process, T-stat is OK so I get to step two and find that the rad.fan
>> motor does not respond to direct voltage except for an initial turn.
>> So I replace the motor and all is well.
>>
>> I decide to pull the back off of the old motor see the cause of
>> failure. As I suspected it is normal wear on the brushes.
>>
>> So here is the rant. why don't they sell brush kits to replace these
>> things with. I pay fifty bucks for a new motor when I need a ten cent
>> pair of brushes, (even if they were five bucks as a service item, I
>> wouldn't complain). And I throw away a handful of copper, steel,
>> plastic, that is essentially functional if they sold the brushes. And
>> the commodity price for all those items continues to inflate as they
>> become more scarce. I guess we will worry when we run slap out.
>
>as stated by others, you have no guarantee this is a long term fix.
>bearings, commutator, windings, all can go. replacing the unit is /the/
>reliable solution. particularly if you are a garage/dealer and don't
>want some upset [potentially ex] customer coming back in 6 weeks
>demanding another repair, only this time for free. also factor in the
>cost of labor. the cost for removing & refitting is the same for repair
>or replacement, so cancel that out of the equation. now we have the
>time for disassembly, diagnosis, repair, testing, reassembly. assuming
>it's fixed right first time, that may be only 1 hour [minimum charge].
>if the motor then proves defective, you've wasted 1 hour's worth of
>labor charge, /and/ you still have to replace the motor on top of that.
> it's just not economic unless you're doing it all yourself. and you
>figure your time is free.

 

| shops can't take the time to crack open these little motors
Doesn't your city have a repairer of motors ?
Here in Pg Msia ( population 0.7m ), 1 repairer has repaired motors
of my Hitachi lawn mower ( twice ) & vacuum cleaner, 3 Black &
Decker grass trimmers, 1 National ( Matsushita ) table fan.

| >> I throw away a handful of copper, steel, plastic
Sony ddu1621 dvd drive's circuit*board has a Winbond flash rom
soldered onto *, I cannot replace this rom so tried to buy a new *.
Sony would not repair this drive, or sell this * ( has a 10 digit part #
), will sell only parts with a 9 digit #.
Toshiba xm5702 cd drive's * 's flash rom sits in a socket, so this
rom is replaceable. Don't buy Sony dvd drive.

 

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 16:57:35 +0800, "TE Cheah" <no@spam.biz> wrote:

>| shops can't take the time to crack open these little motors
>Doesn't your city have a repairer of motors ?
>
They do for larger induction motors. But not for small universal
motors.

Here in Pg Msia ( population 0.7m ), 1 repairer has repaired motors
>of my Hitachi lawn mower ( twice ) & vacuum cleaner, 3 Black &
>Decker grass trimmers, 1 National ( Matsushita ) table fan.
>


>| >> I throw away a handful of copper, steel, plastic
>Sony ddu1621 dvd drive's circuit*board has a Winbond flash rom
>soldered onto *, I cannot replace this rom so tried to buy a new *.
>Sony would not repair this drive, or sell this * ( has a 10 digit part #
>), will sell only parts with a 9 digit #.
>Toshiba xm5702 cd drive's * 's flash rom sits in a socket, so this
>rom is replaceable. Don't buy Sony dvd drive.

It is the way we are going.
>