The problem is I am OCD.. but a bunch of crap was thrown in the garage because we had some pictures taken during an appraisal.

I do have an engine stand, 2 actually.. but they are occupied haha

 

When are you throwing it in? The next week is going to be a little warmer, great for tuning and a few moments of enjoyment before the bottom drops out weather wise.

 

It is in the mail currently so I am hoping in the next week or two.

I am actually looking forward to the cold weather 'cuz I can pack more air in with less boost.

Here is a comparison shot of what an HX-52 looks like:

 

The cooler weather helps make power, but hurts mpg. The MAF is showing more air so more fuel in my car with engine loads at 80 percent at 70mph compared to summer loads around 55 at that speed. That is a big turbo. How much air does if flow again?

 

~95lbs/min should be good for ~900+ whp :)

Ironically, in my situation, I use less fuel per unit volume of air when it is cold. I still use a ton of fuel because I am moving more air by mass when it's cold at the same boost level.

 

I guess it would lean the tune until boost is made. The Honda adaptive tuning relies on the MAF after start up. Uses the engine temp with the LT fuel trim to time the fuel at start up. It takes me 3 miles lately to get the engine temp to 180 in the Civic. The Fit engine temps were in the 170s most of the time.

 

Well its more that I dont have to enrich the mixture as much because the charge being colder both from compressor inlet temps and because the big intercooler is more efficient I don't have to use as much fuel to slow the reaction to prevent detonation.

 

I think I see what your saying. I also see why higher octane is needed because of the higher VE's due to cooler temps. I have also notice that my Fit with a Map used less fuel than my Civic with the MAF.

 

@SilverBullet.... The November issue of "Road & Track" Tech Advice column explains the cost difference between regular and premium fuel... Regular requires less crude to make, has less chemicals and detergents added to it than premium... There is a slight handling or transportation penalty for premium because it is a slower selling product... Premium gasoline is, well, a premium product so it can be marketed at a higher price.... I guess it is like the difference in price between mescal and triple distilled tequila.

 

You guys up there have much colder winters than we do here but I have always gotten better fuel mileage when it is cold, with boost even more so and a huge difference in power output... It is cooling off pretty good here but it's stil very dry... It was 49 degrees at sunup today and 90 at 1:PM.

 

There's the tipping point for us where you go from optimum IATs because you aren't taking in an exceptional mass of air, but the charge is cooled to where you don't need to add fuel to slow the burn and timing can be increased at the same time.. and any cooler than that and you start ingesting more air than can be made up for with the mileage offset from the leaner mixture.

Hope that makes sense.

In my experience with the Fit, the sweet spot is between 50-60F ambient, with low humidity.

 

It makes sense big time.. I got home from a trip to Dallas at 3:30 AM and was very pleased with how much my fuel gauge hadn't moved... It weird but I usually buy no name brand gas at the same convenience store or if away on the road Valero gas and my car runs great on the stuff... I bought Exxon yesterday and fuel mileage is great but power isn't as good... Maybe driving home at the night time speed limit and not misbehaving had a lot to do with it... I did take my son for a ride for the first time since upping the boost but in 1st through 2nd a couple of times and through 3rd once with the pedal all of the way down... When he was growing up I almost always had motorcycles and he never was nervous as a passenger or rider but in the Fit he has actually screamed... He had been drinking this time and thoroughly enjoyed the ride but was dis appointed that no one tried to challenge us.

 

I still think you need some real tires for the summer. Git yer meth goin too!

My fuel economy worries are pretty much non-existant at this point. At full song on the volleyball sized HX52 (it weighs 60lbs!), I will be close to maxing 4x 2150cc/min injectors.

 

I forgot the phase separation that happens this time of year. The big temperature changes and the condensation that is on the car will phase the ethanol out. Higher octane keeps the octane high enough to offset any major problems if that happens.

 

That is the only article I can get so I have to look for it at the store. 24 cents is a bargain for premium with all the additives when you compare it to 100 octane at 8 dollars and 3 dollars of regular. That would be 11 dollars for 2 gallons of 93.5 octane.

Gasoline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Hmm. Not sure I follow.. the VE hasn't changed with the temperature. The charge density has. The charge temperature is part of what would dictate the octane requirement for pump gas applications.

My observations were showing that while it wasn't the 50-60F range that would start to create cold start difficulties on the alcohol, but instead consumption would go up till the intake tract and block temperatures were increased such that the evaporation off the intake from the injector spray and the atomization in the charge stream were improved.

But prior to that lighting off wasn't necessarily tougher at 50-60F because while the alcohol may have issue lighting the base stock gasoline is of lower octane rating than 87oct E0 because the ethanol helps make up the difference being ~116oct AKI

 

Cooler intake temps makes more power and use higher VE tables in the map. I have seen higher engine loads and today my intake temps were 80 and the engine loads were in the 50s at 70 mph compared to 50 degree intake temps and loads in the 80s at that speed. Cooler intake temps require more fuel which the SAE standard is 60 degrees.

I think your talking about turbo so when I see your car you can explain that to me. Maybe I am thinking of thermal efficiency's.


So far I have not had any problems starting my car. Morning temps in the 40s and except for a 5 percent loss in mpg no problems yet. When it happens I have a few bottles of iso heet to use as needed.

Phase separation happens in this time of year because toluene can hold water and as the temps go down it releases it in the tank. Its now not suspended and here is some info. Fuel School: Phase Separation in Ethanol Blended Gasoline

There is also fuel permeation that happens and there is a study from CRC. http://207.57.249.253/reports/recent...March_2010.pdf

 

VE is referring to Volume. Temperature is affecting charge density, or changing the actual mass of the fixed volume available.

VE stays the same. Load increases. This concept applies to FI and NA.

The second half of your post certainly holds valid points with regard to condensation and constituent phases, how ever I don't think we are quite at the point where the normally anhydrous ethanol starts to have issues, and the toluene content is pretty low even in the BP gas. It is enough to make a statistically significant difference.

You can actually blend water, n-heptane and toluene for fuel use. Which is actually what they used in the F1 Turbo era of the 80's.

Toluene in large concentrations, which in my opinion is constituting more than 10% of the content by volume is where you need to consider pre-heating the fuel. Much like Honda did with their F1 cars running ~85% toluene fuel. The sweet spot they found was about 160F so they actually used exhaust heat to treat the fuel before it entered the rail.

 

I got it unless you change something the VE is the same, but there is still more o2 in the intake so its raising the volume of air because its denser, just like higher octane is denser and has more energy potential that a 10.4 compression can use.

Summer grade gas should have 25 to 35 percent toluene by volume and the gas does not change until Oct. 15 for the first level of winter gas around here Dec 15 is then all winter gas until March.

The water you said they add to stretch the fuel is the reason for phase separation. I am not saying it happens all the time but it can explain alot of problems some people have.