Just for all the new T25 Guys who might stumble on this thread during a search:

 

the k23 is a new engine. much harder to come across and more expensive. there is a HUGE selection for parts for the k20 or k24, so you mind as well use one of those engines as a base. this also allows you to use kpro or flashpro to tune.
for the L15, the best tuning is the AEM FIC. however there is only 1 person that has run 15psi+ on an L15 and that was a completely built motor. the oinly readliy available aftermarket parts for teh l15 are pistons. no rods, cams, valves, etc. makes for an expensive build when it all has o eb custom made.
at that point id suggest just buidling (or even leaving it stock since it can handle 400+whp from the factory) a k20 and swapping it in, then you can use kpro/flashpro.
i want to say that honda map/maf sensors can only be used up to 10psi, but im not 100% sure on this.
no idea on the fuel pump flow rates, but at 15psi, you will need a high flow fuel pump (walbro 255) and you might want to look into a fuel return system as well.
you cna use a sadnwich plate at the oil filter or place a tee fitting between the block and the oil pressure sender switch. either will work fine.

to be honest, its all weak. bigest concern would be connecting rods, then pistons, and then clutch/transmission. they are all rather weak, but teh clutch can be changed out much easier than the pistons and rods, so they are higher on the list.
upload to photobucket or antoerh image hosting site. copy the url, click on the "insert image" link at teh top of the reply box adn past the link in there.

 

Thank you for taking the time to go through all that. I've been contemplating the k-swap since I saw there were already several done and there are even motor mounts from Haspro.

Though I think with alot of meth or E85 and maybe just some nicer pistons I should be able to pull off ~15psi with conservative timing on the L15A. I think I will go with a Bosch -044 inline pump, aeromotive fuel pressure regulator, high flow filter and maybe a -8AN feed from the 044 to the rail in an attempt to keep my injector duty cycles down. It sounds like a -6AN return would be a good idea as well.

From what I can find, the Fit comes with something like ~180cc injectors, and I thought I read there are some that will work for us in the neighborhood of ~300cc, which at high enough base pressure should support 275-300whp on the 14b on pump gas, but E85 is gonna require alot more injector, on the order of ~35%.

Which is why I am leaning towards alky injection at the throttle body or upper intercooler piping.

Would I be able to "hide" the boost above 100kpa with a one way valve between my manifold source and MAP?

I think I may investigate into taking the oil feed from between the block and sending unit as you suggest.

If I do go K20/24 I will probably put a much larger frame turbo like a 62mm compressor inducer, or a compound set up on if I can find some room.

I have yet to start researching kpro/flashpro or AEM F-IC... Are these lap top based? Are they flashed chips like EEPROM? Or are they piggybacks like an S-AFC II?

Thanks again,
Chris

 

From my experience this is becoming a bit of a headache to do (boost).

Weak points are as Nighthawksi pointed out, you can add the crank to that list.

Wiseco and CP pistons are available, as for rods K1 produce a forged set although Im not certain its for high boost/power applications.

The stock MAP sensor is a 2bar unit.

300-440cc injectors should do the trick.

Invest in a standalone EMS as FI/C, e-Manage, etc are piggybacks and ultimately limited if your chasing big power or higher boost. Flashpro is laptop based if Im not mistaken.

Sounds like you're on the right track though.

 

What problems arise with the crank? Does it walk out after wearing on the thrust surfaces? Does it start to try and jump rope out of the block? does it just break past a certain power level or redline?

I am familiar with Wiseco and CP, K1 is new to me, but I would have to venture a guess that if they would take the time to produce and sell forged components that they are likely tougher than that of OEM rods.

Would I be set if I just magnafluxed and REM'd my crank?

Standalone is looking more and more attractive... and with a 2 bar I could see ~14psi and still be in operating range, but I would probably just get higher capacity unit like the GM3bar, Omni 4 bar or AEM 5 bar like I have in my Laser. But in any case, 14psi on the 14b is still in the +250whp range for a 1.5-2.0l fwd.

All the clutches I am running into are very expensive, and seem to be $600 for just an organic full face sprung hub disk.. are there any pucked options? lighter flywheels? stronger pressure plates?

 

185cc is stock
id recommend 410cc (RDX injectors), but really there is no harm in larger injectors(especially if you go kswap+turbo since you can boost more). the newest and best recommended injector i hear of is injector dynamics. i think the smallest they make is 750cc, but no harm in larger as long as your tuned correctly. otherwise, jsut try for around 400-450cc injectors
the AEM FIC has a built in pressure sensor so you cna tune off that and clamp the voltage the OEM MAP sensor sees.

.
you obviously liek boost, but if your goal is 275-300whp, you can "easily" build a NA k20/24 and drop it in. tune with kpro or flashpro and be right around that whp.
AEM FIC is a piggyback.

kpro is a modded ecu that replaces yours and allows you to change the tune.
flashpro is a unit that you plug into your ecu and change the tune

 

Yes I do love boost. The sound, the hit as it spools and the power under the curve are addicting. Which would be my only real concern when building an all motor k series to 300whp... what would the low end grunt and mid range be like if I have to wind it out on radical valvetrain, compression and redline to get to 300whp?

As far as bigger injectors and tuning are concerned, that is not going to be too difficult. I have other four cylinders, one with FIC1450s the other with ID2200's so ~750s shouldn't be hard to get to cooperate. The AEM FIC looks like it uses the GM3Bar sensor, as the part numbers are the same.

The k-series and PCM are looking like my best options.

FWIW, my 275-300whp goal was for the L15 and 14b.

If I am going to invest the time and money on a K swap and throw a 60+mm turbo, like the Borg Warner S362 (I was alluding to it up thread) on there which is just a c*nt hair bigger than a GT3586R with better spool and higher efficiency at high boost, I am definitely going to start hunting for 400+ whp.

For reference, when I was making 320whp/360wtq in my Laser, which is the same weight as a Fit, I was walking on 2010 M5s and Porsche 911 Turbos.

With DSMLink I could use antilag, electronic wastegate control and no lift to shift to leave the line with 20+ psi, shift to second without taking my foot off the gas because the NLTS gives me a clutch cut rev-limiter, and used that in conjunction with my EGR solenoid controls to limit boost like a traction control.

Power to weight and some good tires/suspension can make cheap fwd cars punch waayyy above their weight. I'm hoping the Fit can produce similar results.

Which brings me to my next question... because I have a couple long blocks laying around waiting to be used, would this board flame me for contemplating a 4G63 powered Fit?

 

Here is the comp. map for the 14b, and it looks like it would be a great match for the 1.5l with a 7k redline. ASSuming that the VE approaches the typical 90% most 4valve heads do, and this will all be done around 600-650ft above sea level.

 

problem with L15 at or above 200whp is weak internals and tranny.
problem with k20 swap + turbo is engine bay room.

this is the reason i suggest a NA k20. and the sound of the engine revving up to 10k, vtec kick in (cam crossover has been compared to boost in the past).
275whp can easily be done with over the counter parts, hasport mounts, DBW throttle body and flashpro. some custom wiring (possible dual ECU setup might be necessary, but its just a little wiring)
but once your near the 300whp mark, your close to peaking out that engine.

for example here is a friend of mines k24 build thread with dyno #'s. an engien liek this can be dropped right into the fit with hasport mounts.
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/engin...ssr-b-k24.html

 

I stand to correction as there are slight variations in Jazz vs Fit engine, but I was told by a local (to me) Honda service manager that the Jazz L15A has a 'floating' crank making it inherently weak. A locally boosted Jazz ran 0.65 bar boost and snapped the crank in half. There are a whole bunch of reasons and variables that went into that, regardless I expected the rods or pistons to go first and not the crank.

PS. I saw a Exedy stage 2 clutch a while back on eBay priced pretty well...

 

i too came from the dsm world when i bought my fit. looking at tuning this car is completely different from building and tuning a dsm. im putting a evo 3 16g on my crz and im already running into problems, because like the ge the crz has a built in exhaust manifold so i may have to use a tial external wastegate instead of the stock internal.

 

Hmm...while no doubt that is an impressive specific output from an NA 2.4, he only sees 205lb-ft with that 284whp. And he has to wait to 5k rpm to get to that, then its dropping off 1500rpm later. Not too mention at 3000rpm he is just starting to make more than 100whp. I want this to be streetable power. Not where I have to wind out each gear to get moving.

The lack of space I can usually work with, but I just can't justify all that time and work to only make 300whp/215lb-ft. So turbo it will have to be.

My other 2.0l's saw more than 200lb-ft around 3200rpm at full spool in 3rd gear with the 14b, which is the turbo I usually break-in my new builds with.

By 5000rpm I have >300lb-ft on tap and can hold that through 7.5k with even 264* duration cams on the less-advanced 20 year old cylinder heads.

I want this to be a competent street car where I won't have to downshift to reel in some garden variety mustang on the highway. Lean burning and aggressive timing can help spool even on the laggiest journal bearing turbos.

 

I have a GD3(?) chassis (2008 Sport model), and from what I have found so far there are several exhaust headers offered for NA applications, so I'm not certain I will have this problem. But I intend on a TialV44 externally dumped gate anways

The E316G and its slightly larger 7cm2 turbine housing (14b = 6cm2) will probably still produce lots of usable torque on a 1.5L, what special considerations did you have to take with the clutch/trans/IMA to put up with a >40lb/min compressor?

Are those Rota Slipstreams on your CR-Z? Looks sick!

 

Holy crap. Was it .65bar on a GT42R or HX55?

I wonder what he meant by "floating." All cranks "floating" in the sense that they don't, or atleast shouldn't, touch the bearings because of the oil film, but Im sure being a service manager he probably already would understand that...

I have to imagine that the rods would have to be pretty tough considering that the car is relatively high compression at whatever 10.x:1 CR, sold on several continents and subject to wide array of fuels, so they would have to be able to put up with the excess spiking cylinder pressure of knock events and just margin of safety.

For the crank to go suggests there are other things very wrong going on. Maybe I should have a billet main girdle of some sort built if pan clearances will allow. If I pulled the short block apart to throw new conrods/pistons and bearings in, I will see if it would be worthwhile boring and sleeving should I choose to stick with the 1.5L.

 

Now for some pictures so you know I'm not BS'ing all of you!



Edit: 65lb/min BorgWarner S259ETT on the left, 34lb/min MHI TD05H 14b on the right

Coming as soon I can find them: Shots of my Fit trailering a 16' aluminum fishing boat at my buddies lakehouse.

Without a hitch. In the rain, off road, up hill. Using tow straps and boat cushions with the tongue inside the hatch.... Can you say urban redneck?

All because his cousin left with the truck before we got back to the dock the weekend we had to close up for the summer last year. It worked so well we've done it twice now. Just feels like a fat guy in the trunk!

Yet another reason I would like an LSD and some more torque

 

Somethings have changed since the pic was taken (some form, some functional) but this is my current favorite example of my various projects.

 

They used a Mitsubishi TD04L, I actually bought the kit after their engine blewhttps://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-...rbo-build.html
I'll only be running 0.4 bar boost though.

I haven't found any bearings for the L15A so do let us know if you come across anything.

 

I love my fit (2nd fit) and I also came from a dsm, yay gst. welcome to our community
Utilizing a 14b would be pretty sweet in my opinion since it should hold boost better/longer than any of our t25 based or equivalent kits.

I still got a t2small in the garage I was planning on using for a makeshift turbo kit, but then there was a deal I couldn't pass up for an hks kit. Those use a t25 and after installing it, there is some room behind the engine but not much, since it is similar in size to the 14b you might be able it fit it back there. Also I want more boost already. damn boost addiction. It's a nice pick me up but it leaves me wanting more. I hope to see more post on this idea coming to fruition

 

I'm hoping Clevite or ACL will be able to help me out for bearings, I am looking to use 3/4 grooved bearings for the high stress high rpm I intend to see with this project. If the rod ratio and available rod bolts/wrist pins and valvetrain will allow for it I'd like to wind it out to ~8250rpm or so, considering that would help make up the displacement gap from the 2.0L it was intended for.

Realistically I could see full spool of ~14-15lbs by 3750-4250 in 2nd and probably around 3250 in 3rd, on even a conservative tune and timing. And as noted I should be able to hold that flat to redline.

Upon preliminary measuring and plotting tonight, it looks like she might fit, and I still have an oxygen sensor housing that bolts to it so that would save me the pain of making a downpipe as well, now I can just use a 2 bolt flange and 2.5" stainless pipe straight back.

 

Would a t28 fit? Are you using an internal or external wastegate? And recirculated or dumped to atmosphere?

How much boost were you running on the t25? 6-9psi? Do you know what kind of torque you are making?

My only concern is if the cams will choke the turbo. I picked up >3lbs/min from a cam change, going from factory 256* duration and .331" lift to a custom 274* and .411" lift at the same boost level and using the stock 7k redline as a control as well this was with 93 pump at ~18psi with 17* timing peak

Also to those who might be interested, I am currently relocating my battery to the trunk with 1ga. wire and installing an external shut off switch as per NHRA and Land Speed rules. Heres what that might look like: