What did you do to the GD Fit today?
If it's 4.8lbs why does it matter to your calculation whether its made of steel or bird shit?
Approximating it as a disc is not accurate either, its closer to a toroid. How that mass is distributed along the radius matters too.
And engine speed delta of 17 rpm/sec^2 is not accurate in the least under WOT.. try 80-110rpm/sec^2 (depending on shift point) over ~1.x seconds to simulate a full first gear pull. Now do it for each pulley. Then add that to the whole of all the other rotating components that have been lightened on an auto-x car or in a drag car where tenths, hundreds and thousandths matter.
Piss off.
Approximating it as a disc is not accurate either, its closer to a toroid. How that mass is distributed along the radius matters too.
And engine speed delta of 17 rpm/sec^2 is not accurate in the least under WOT.. try 80-110rpm/sec^2 (depending on shift point) over ~1.x seconds to simulate a full first gear pull. Now do it for each pulley. Then add that to the whole of all the other rotating components that have been lightened on an auto-x car or in a drag car where tenths, hundreds and thousandths matter.
Piss off.
Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; Mar 7, 2013 at 10:44 PM.
yeah guy, you are a troll. the link i posted that shows a dyno graph is documented proof that your wrong, simple as that. and your still arguing about all this time later. so take your miscalculated bullshit else where douchbag.
Banned
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,361
From: right coast
Chalk this up up with hydrogen generators and short/cold intakes. They don't work. Not only do lighter pulleys NOT produce any hp (an absolutely insane assumption) they might also screw up your engine. Pulley's are an integral part of an engine's design. They dampen vibrations. They have mass at the right locations to dampen certain frequencies, torsionaly and laterally. Any high school student can get get on a simple CAD program, make a few measurements of the stock pulley, and send a model to either a 3D printer or a machine shop. They'll probably make it out of standard (cheap) grade 6061-T6 aluminum, that they'll tell you is aerospace grade or some crap like that, they'll anodize it cool looking blue or red, which is just a terrible, high wear on your belt amorphous aluminum oxide coating. Finally they'll tell you that because it's a pound lighter you'll get more power. Total bull.
However, swapping out your wheels for lighter ones, will allow you to accelerate faster, but it won't give you more power, simply due to the fact your car is lighter. So will doing anything that reduces the weight of a vehicle. Acceleration = force/mass. If you reduce the mass you increase acceleration. Lighter wheels also spool faster. angular acceleration = torque/moi (moment of inertia). You decrease the moi (wheel or pulley) and the angular acceleration goes up. So while you don't make any more power, you have less mass to change in direction or less rotational inertia to spool, and you'll get their faster. It's exactly the same thing as accelerating on a flat road vs acclerating on a downslope. Your power level is always the same, but the mass reaction is less going downhill. With the pulley swap though you're substituting a tiny rotational mass reduction with a loss in designed damping capability.
However, swapping out your wheels for lighter ones, will allow you to accelerate faster, but it won't give you more power, simply due to the fact your car is lighter. So will doing anything that reduces the weight of a vehicle. Acceleration = force/mass. If you reduce the mass you increase acceleration. Lighter wheels also spool faster. angular acceleration = torque/moi (moment of inertia). You decrease the moi (wheel or pulley) and the angular acceleration goes up. So while you don't make any more power, you have less mass to change in direction or less rotational inertia to spool, and you'll get their faster. It's exactly the same thing as accelerating on a flat road vs acclerating on a downslope. Your power level is always the same, but the mass reaction is less going downhill. With the pulley swap though you're substituting a tiny rotational mass reduction with a loss in designed damping capability.
If you know all that why don't you know that the Fit lower pulley is just that a solid pulley. It has no torsional damping qualities as the Fit is INTERNALLY BALANCED. You could run the fit with NO pulley and a sleeve to prevent oil leakage and it would run just fine.
I agree with your thinking in the second part that is what a lighter pulley is doing. What results you get from installing one can be found in real old threads on this subject way back at the beginning of this site when it was just GDs it was thoroughly covered back then.
Banned
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,361
From: right coast
Just go to a NHRA vehicle classification page and look up a 1968 1/2 Cobrajet mustang "Q" model (non-ramair). Then look up a 1968 1/2 cobrajet mustang "R" model (ramair). Note there is NO difference in anything other than the ramair system and you will see the ramair model is in a higher class because the engine has a HIGHER factored HP rating due to the ramair system. You can find a bunch of other vehicles with the same thing including Chevelles, Z-28's etc.
NHRA has to tread a fine line in their factoring of engine HP or these guys will go through the roof CLASS RACER FORUM - Powered by vBulletin.
The difference in these cars is a cold air system ONLY everything else is exactly the same.
Most true cold air systems, under the bumper, through the hood or in front of the grill give approx 0.20 decrease in ET on most cars.
However none of the current systems available commercially for the FIT is a true cold air (ambient temperature) system. I would call them cooler engine bay temperature intake systems.
So you could have qualified your statement to many of the intake systems currently available for commercial sale for the Fit MAY not give any performance increase. But to make a blanket condemnation of them all is incorrect. Until you yourself have tested them back to back with a stock system if would be best not to make generalized statements like that.
ps; it is possible to custom make a true cold air system for a Fit that delivers ambient air temps to the TB while the car is moving.
I know I have done it and before you start I DO have a thermometer mounted inside the intake piping 1/4 inch outsite the TB to prove it.
Try some "real world" experimenting yourself you may find it more enjoyable than "Book theory" exercises.
This totally generalized statement is ludicrous on it's face. It's very simple to prove
Just go to a NHRA vehicle classification page and look up a 1968 1/2 Cobrajet mustang "Q" model (non-ramair). Then look up a 1968 1/2 cobrajet mustang "R" model (ramair). Note there is NO difference in anything other than the ramair system and you will see the ramair model is in a higher class because the engine has a HIGHER factored HP rating due to the ramair system. You can find a bunch of other vehicles with the same thing including Chevelles, Z-28's etc.
NHRA has to tread a fine line in their factoring of engine HP or these guys will go through the roof CLASS RACER FORUM - Powered by vBulletin.
The difference in these cars is a cold air system ONLY everything else is exactly the same.
Most true cold air systems, under the bumper, through the hood or in front of the grill give approx 0.20 decrease in ET on most cars.
However none of the current systems available commercially for the FIT is a true cold air (ambient temperature) system. I would call them cooler engine bay temperature intake systems.
So you could have qualified your statement to many of the intake systems currently available for commercial sale for the Fit MAY not give any performance increase. But to make a blanket condemnation of them all is incorrect. Until you yourself have tested them back to back with a stock system if would be best not to make generalized statements like that.
ps; it is possible to custom make a true cold air system for a Fit that delivers ambient air temps to the TB while the car is moving.
I know I have done it and before you start I DO have a thermometer mounted inside the intake piping 1/4 inch outsite the TB to prove it.
Try some "real world" experimenting yourself you may find it more enjoyable than "Book theory" exercises.
Just go to a NHRA vehicle classification page and look up a 1968 1/2 Cobrajet mustang "Q" model (non-ramair). Then look up a 1968 1/2 cobrajet mustang "R" model (ramair). Note there is NO difference in anything other than the ramair system and you will see the ramair model is in a higher class because the engine has a HIGHER factored HP rating due to the ramair system. You can find a bunch of other vehicles with the same thing including Chevelles, Z-28's etc.
NHRA has to tread a fine line in their factoring of engine HP or these guys will go through the roof CLASS RACER FORUM - Powered by vBulletin.
The difference in these cars is a cold air system ONLY everything else is exactly the same.
Most true cold air systems, under the bumper, through the hood or in front of the grill give approx 0.20 decrease in ET on most cars.
However none of the current systems available commercially for the FIT is a true cold air (ambient temperature) system. I would call them cooler engine bay temperature intake systems.
So you could have qualified your statement to many of the intake systems currently available for commercial sale for the Fit MAY not give any performance increase. But to make a blanket condemnation of them all is incorrect. Until you yourself have tested them back to back with a stock system if would be best not to make generalized statements like that.
ps; it is possible to custom make a true cold air system for a Fit that delivers ambient air temps to the TB while the car is moving.
I know I have done it and before you start I DO have a thermometer mounted inside the intake piping 1/4 inch outsite the TB to prove it.
Try some "real world" experimenting yourself you may find it more enjoyable than "Book theory" exercises.
The "Ram air" intakes are more a function of creating slight positive intake pressure than simply inducting cold air.
How much power they pick up is more easily correlated with a change in trap speed, ET is a function of many other things.. trap being one of them though. And how much they pick up depends on how fast the car was to begin with.
This effect is more pronounced on cars with a big trap speed, even more so on the turbo cars like mine with a forward facing duct.
[IMG]
[/IMG]As turbos are a volumetric pressure multiplier.. that temperature plays an even bigger role as it effects compressor outlet temps before hitting the intercooler. Additionally I have 3 water/methanol nozzles to help with this.
So if instead of the ~14.6PSIa I normally see at my DA here in Chicago, if I can pick up .5-1.5PSIa at the inlet depending on speed it can make a dramatic difference across the system.
At high boost, like 2.5-3.0Bar or Compressor PR 3.5-4.0 that 1.5PSIa is going to wind up taking me from
14.6PSIa x 3.5PR = 51.1PSIa - 14.6PSIa = 36.5PSIg
To:
(14.6PSIa + 1.5PSIa) x 3.5PR = 56.35PSIa - 14.6PSIa = 41.75PSIg
So for the same PR/turbine shaft speed.. I pick up 5.25PSI in the manifold!
That's like dropping several thousand feet below sea level and its a big deal.
The turbine is now doing less work to make the same target boost or the same work to make more boost but staying in the same efficiency island, with my wastegate scheme it allows for boost increases in this manner and on a turbo as big as I am running 1PSIg = 25-30whp at those PRs.
Drive:Boost pressure ratio goes down, VE improves, knock threshold is raised.. all around benefits to this vs no forward facing intake.
Last edited by DiamondStarMonsters; Mar 8, 2013 at 09:26 AM.
Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 113
From: india
Got new 15*6.5 +38 offset rims and 195 55 s drives for my 2010 fit...car handles good. got 10 mm slip on spacer at rear and wheels flush in. now i would like to lower it a bit around an inch or so. looking for h and r lowering springs. They lower the ride around 1.3 and 1.6 inch rear and front respectively. how are these springs? has anyone tried it on their fits? do they make the ride harsh on potholes? I m running on stock suspension.
Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 150
From: Monkeyville
When faced with facts you resort to name calling. That's brilliant. And you believe a company's test on a product their selling. You're not very smart. Do you remember Prolong and how the company ran engines dry, without oil? That turned out to be scam. You can be sure that dyno graph you posted, which is also the company trying to sell you their pulley, is an inertial dyno. There is no possible way to show more hp on a load dyno, steady state. This is a very common scam by sellers of these products. They would get the same increased hp results if they simply went to lighter wheels or tires.
Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 150
From: Monkeyville
This totally generalized statement is ludicrous on it's face. It's very simple to prove
Just go to a NHRA vehicle classification page and look up a 1968 1/2 Cobrajet mustang "Q" model (non-ramair). Then look up a 1968 1/2 cobrajet mustang "R" model (ramair). Note there is NO difference in anything other than the ramair system and you will see the ramair model is in a higher class because the engine has a HIGHER factored HP rating due to the ramair system. You can find a bunch of other vehicles with the same thing including Chevelles, Z-28's etc.
NHRA has to tread a fine line in their factoring of engine HP or these guys will go through the roof CLASS RACER FORUM - Powered by vBulletin.
The difference in these cars is a cold air system ONLY everything else is exactly the same.
Most true cold air systems, under the bumper, through the hood or in front of the grill give approx 0.20 decrease in ET on most cars.
However none of the current systems available commercially for the FIT is a true cold air (ambient temperature) system. I would call them cooler engine bay temperature intake systems.
So you could have qualified your statement to many of the intake systems currently available for commercial sale for the Fit MAY not give any performance increase. But to make a blanket condemnation of them all is incorrect. Until you yourself have tested them back to back with a stock system if would be best not to make generalized statements like that.
ps; it is possible to custom make a true cold air system for a Fit that delivers ambient air temps to the TB while the car is moving.
I know I have done it and before you start I DO have a thermometer mounted inside the intake piping 1/4 inch outsite the TB to prove it.
Try some "real world" experimenting yourself you may find it more enjoyable than "Book theory" exercises.
Just go to a NHRA vehicle classification page and look up a 1968 1/2 Cobrajet mustang "Q" model (non-ramair). Then look up a 1968 1/2 cobrajet mustang "R" model (ramair). Note there is NO difference in anything other than the ramair system and you will see the ramair model is in a higher class because the engine has a HIGHER factored HP rating due to the ramair system. You can find a bunch of other vehicles with the same thing including Chevelles, Z-28's etc.
NHRA has to tread a fine line in their factoring of engine HP or these guys will go through the roof CLASS RACER FORUM - Powered by vBulletin.
The difference in these cars is a cold air system ONLY everything else is exactly the same.
Most true cold air systems, under the bumper, through the hood or in front of the grill give approx 0.20 decrease in ET on most cars.
However none of the current systems available commercially for the FIT is a true cold air (ambient temperature) system. I would call them cooler engine bay temperature intake systems.
So you could have qualified your statement to many of the intake systems currently available for commercial sale for the Fit MAY not give any performance increase. But to make a blanket condemnation of them all is incorrect. Until you yourself have tested them back to back with a stock system if would be best not to make generalized statements like that.
ps; it is possible to custom make a true cold air system for a Fit that delivers ambient air temps to the TB while the car is moving.
I know I have done it and before you start I DO have a thermometer mounted inside the intake piping 1/4 inch outsite the TB to prove it.
Try some "real world" experimenting yourself you may find it more enjoyable than "Book theory" exercises.
Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 340
From: Ohio
I washed, clayed, re clayed, waxed, 2nd coat of wax, detailed inside and all glass, 3rd coat of wax, rainx'd all exterior glass and detailed my engine bay today.
My neighbor told me that my Honda wasn't worth all that work. It sure looks like a million bucks now. It's super clean. Just waiting on some money to come in and then I'm getting some new wheels next or lowering it and then wheels.
My neighbor told me that my Honda wasn't worth all that work. It sure looks like a million bucks now. It's super clean. Just waiting on some money to come in and then I'm getting some new wheels next or lowering it and then wheels.
When faced with facts you resort to name calling. That's brilliant. And you believe a company's test on a product their selling. You're not very smart. Do you remember Prolong and how the company ran engines dry, without oil? That turned out to be scam. You can be sure that dyno graph you posted, which is also the company trying to sell you their pulley, is an inertial dyno. There is no possible way to show more hp on a load dyno, steady state. This is a very common scam by sellers of these products. They would get the same increased hp results if they simply went to lighter wheels or tires.
you know guy, i'm done with you. i've been working in dealerships and custom shops for 15 1/2 years and even went to school for a year and a half learning how to buid high performance engines, chassis and custom cars and your full of crap. if youd had bothered to actually read the article from the link i posted you would relize that it wasn't from a company selling shit, it was a car magazine using a thrid party dyno and some random persons car not some body from some company. so do us a favor and leave fitfreak we don't need you nor want you.
Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 35
From: Northern Ireland
I washed, clayed, re clayed, waxed, 2nd coat of wax, detailed inside and all glass, 3rd coat of wax, rainx'd all exterior glass and detailed my engine bay today.
My neighbor told me that my Honda wasn't worth all that work. It sure looks like a million bucks now. It's super clean. Just waiting on some money to come in and then I'm getting some new wheels next or lowering it and then wheels.
My neighbor told me that my Honda wasn't worth all that work. It sure looks like a million bucks now. It's super clean. Just waiting on some money to come in and then I'm getting some new wheels next or lowering it and then wheels.
Any pics of your car?
Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 340
From: Ohio
This weekend is literally the first weekend we've had all year at 50+. It's been great. Plus I've half assed washed my car up til this point, I wanted to fix all the dirt and crap for good. My paint is smooth like silk now. (Or maybe my hands are covered in wax and make me think it's that way)
Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 340
From: Ohio
Bump for pics, here she is clean.
She's clean, I got splashed by a truck right after I took those pics, so it's dirty again.
EDIT: fixed my last pic, from the guns to the correct pic. Sorry again.
She's clean, I got splashed by a truck right after I took those pics, so it's dirty again.
EDIT: fixed my last pic, from the guns to the correct pic. Sorry again.
Last edited by Katsumoto; Mar 10, 2013 at 10:07 PM.
I'm assuming you used those pistols to shoot that truck that splashed you after all that detailing? 
But yeah, good job, it really looks good. Still waiting for spring to come before I can detail my GD again. :/
But yeah, good job, it really looks good. Still waiting for spring to come before I can detail my GD again. :/
Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 340
From: Ohio
LOL, My bad, I was posting from my phone.
I thought I copied the link from the other picture of my car from my Photobucket, not a picture of my carry weapon..
Sorry if it has offended anyone or if I've broken some rule. I didn't mean too. lol
As much as I'd like to do that after spending hours cleaning my car, it's not smart too. Some people will get their life brought down to reality sooner or later. Lucky for me, the truck decided to pull into an intersection and a Camaro ate some of the truck.
I thought I copied the link from the other picture of my car from my Photobucket, not a picture of my carry weapon..
Sorry if it has offended anyone or if I've broken some rule. I didn't mean too. lol
As much as I'd like to do that after spending hours cleaning my car, it's not smart too. Some people will get their life brought down to reality sooner or later. Lucky for me, the truck decided to pull into an intersection and a Camaro ate some of the truck.
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 191
From: Southwest Ohio
Noticed that the lovely Mrs. must have parked the car and dragged the front end of the car when backing out (AGAIN!?!) as the outer spoiler assembly is pulled out from the spoiler and one of the tabs is pointing straight down... The entire nose is loose. Ordered replacement clips in bulk(20+) each of three different ones because we can all guess it will happen again...
Noticed that the lovely Mrs. must have parked the car and dragged the front end of the car when backing out (AGAIN!?!) as the outer spoiler assembly is pulled out from the spoiler and one of the tabs is pointing straight down... The entire nose is loose. Ordered replacement clips in bulk(20+) each of three different ones because we can all guess it will happen again...
Cheaper upkeep for both and a shapely ass for you to enjoy.
Welcome to the world of lowered Fits
Noticed that the lovely Mrs. must have parked the car and dragged the front end of the car when backing out (AGAIN!?!) as the outer spoiler assembly is pulled out from the spoiler and one of the tabs is pointing straight down... The entire nose is loose. Ordered replacement clips in bulk(20+) each of three different ones because we can all guess it will happen again...