Really strange issue showing up on my '09 Sport (PRNDS) at 150K miles. Basically, when the transmission wants to release the Torque Converter (TC) lockup to give additional acceleration, it will briefly release the lock and immediately re-engage it, resulting in a stutter, shudder, hiccup, jump, surge, whatever you want to call it. if I hold the same speed and same accelerator position and the road stays the same grade, I can get it to stutter repeatedly. If, however, I just press the accelearator a bit harder, the TC lockup will disengage normally, and will re-engage when it normally would once the extra acceleration is no longer needed. The issue seems to be more common the longer I am driving (easily reproducible past 1hr of highway driving) and is more noticeable on gentle inclines or slight acceleration, where the AT would choose to unlock the TC rather than drop down a gear.

This is not the A/T trying to switch gears, this problem is reproducible in S mode fixed in gear (observed in M4 and M5, but have not tried to reproduce the issue in M3 or below). As noted before, the problem is temporarily resolved by forcing the A/T into lockup or non-lockup by releasing the accelerator or pressing it harder. the issue is noticeable seemingly only on the operating boundary edge between lockup/non-lockup.

Fluid level in the A/T is normal and there is absolutely no issue with TC lockup or slippage of the trans when driving hard or on mountainous roads

Has anyone else had or heard of this problem before? am I looking at needing a new trans, or is it possible the PCM is getting noisy data somewhere and I just need a new sensor?

 

When was the ATF last replaced and with what fluid?

I ask because I'm curious if ATF degradation is a factor as well. ATF replacement is generally recommended every 2 years or 30k miles by most dealers and from what I've seen first hand ATF DW1 tends to degrade around 3 years or 45k to the point of having torque converter judder (a stick/slip feeling) during converter lock up. This is more noticeable in V6 Hondas and the 5AT CR-Vs factory filled with DW1.

ATF pressure switch issues are also a thing but they usually (but not always) end up being a shift related issue were you have limited gear selection or have an absurdly harsh/delayed shift.

 

Not too experienced here, but have seen ATF fluid, even new and at proper levels, cause abnormal behavior similar to clutch slip. Did not always present at gear changes. Was OEM ATF fluid for a different vehicle, but the manufacturer had recently changed their ATF. Was told that excess detergents were the cause. Switched to Redline ATF and the problem was resolved.

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Sorry for bumping an old post, but I’ve been experiencing the exact same strange behavior in the exact same car (‘09 Sport) the past few years. Glad to see I’m not alone! Curious if you ever found a solution?

 

Hopefully @jerm1386 gets back to yuh, but incase they don't, verify atf ain't leaking and consider a fluid replacement with oem or swap to redline - if @Hootie shows up, just ignore me completely and listen to him.
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@IGx89 Same question as my post above. When was your last ATF replacement and with what fluid?

Like mentioned before, ATF DW1 shows signs of degradation after about 3 years or 45k miles in V6 Hondas and K24 powered 5AT CR-Vs.

If no knowledge of ATF replacement, then I would recommend doing a 3 time drain and refill. This is the closest thing we can do to an "ATF flush" without damaging the transmission or introducing additives/friction modifiers to the ATF as well.

The process is simple... Drain and refill like the typical ATF replacement. Then you either A) Drive the car for a bit to cycle the fluid throughout the system or B) Keep the car on jack stands and run the vehicle through the gears. The end goal is to of course get the fluid nice, hot and well mixed to get a thorough drain. Then repeat this two more times with the final/third time you or whoever is doing the service replacing the ATF drink plug washer.

As an optional extra, you can change the inline filter on the back of the transmission case which is under the airbox assembly and favoring towards the firewall side of the car.

Fluid wise, you can't go wrong with OE fluid (ATF DW1) if the vehicle is your simple A to B daily. Other considerations if a Honda dealer or some other retailer doesn't have DW1 would be AmSoil's either Multi Vehicle ATF (which exceeds both Honda's ATF Z1 AND DW1s specs, I personally run it) or one of Redline's ATF options (like @Pyts mentioned).

 

Really appreciate the responses! My ATF was last changed 20k ago, though that was now 5 years ago (stopped doing a long commute post-lockdowns). It was still happening both before and after that though. I had a local auto shop do it (B13 service) and they did a “flush”.

Sounds like I’m due for another, and may indeed attempt doing it myself so I know exactly what’s done. Not that optimistic it’ll fix it, but I’ll try the three fills flush and replace the filter to increase the odds. I’m going to attempt a tune-up myself this summer too ($1000+ just for new spark plugs and adjusting timing on a 15 year old car is too steep for me), so my car’s going to be getting a lot of attention .

 

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I have question about moving to redline atf. Do I just do drain and fill? Or am I going to need to completely drain the transmission first?

 

Redline claims compatibility with everything, so you can just drain and fill. you can check their website for specific recommendations: redlineoil.

I hope you're not taking my advice over Hootie's though I don't know that much by comparison from what I've read.

 

My personal experience with an 2006 Acura TL automatic transmission.. Changing the ATF too often can cause issues as you are "washing" away the clutch material that is suspended in the fluid which in turn over time the transmission will begin to slip in the gears that are worn the most.

In the Mid 2000's Toyota switched to a sealed automatic transmission that has a "Lifetime" ATF that its not serviceable. I think it is an odd idea. But I have seen 4Runners with over 400,000 miles on the original ATF fluid.

Just something to think about.

 

While reading about motorcycles is what got me to start using redline, a tacoma is what locked me in.. changed my pop's atf on his 05 tacoma which had 250k+ miles and used toyota's new oem fluid (world standard). it started slipping bad on the freeway. I went and talked to toyota about that and the dude at the parts counter shared in a low voice that the new stuff has excess detergents that cause slipping in older vehicles.
i think he got in trouble for that because the next time i went back for parts he denied it.
anyways, switching to redline (think it was d6 recommended for that one) resolved the slip.
i'm pretty confident it benefits a transmission to change fluid, so long as you don't mess up the service (i'm pretty sure the juice wears out,) but i do believe your statement to also be true. i read an article from blackstone stating that as tech has advanced the metal composition of transmissions has become more varied - as a result they'd seen more transmissions benefit from using oem fluid that addresses their specific needs.

but Honda does want us to change fluids. and if you have to replace an output shaft gasket on a yota, you'll be replacing atf regardless of their recommendations.
@mykizism sorry if it sounds like i'm gunning yuh down, i'm only sharing my opinion.

 

No worries, the guys on the Acura forum liked and recommended Red line as well. Almost all automatic transmissions are finicky at best.. this is the reason why bought a Honda Fit because it came in MT. Reliability at its finest.

 

Just looked over Hooties responses.

I'm wondering if I should try another atf.

I've done a fluid drain and fill (3x, although I did not put much mileage in between them) in the past with dw-1 ...almost 100k/ 4 years ago. Definitely need a nother after reading about the degradation. I still had the weird lurch sound and hesitation shifting 2nd to 3rd (2009 auto trans) after the fluid swap.

I also noticed he mentioned an atf pressure switch issue, I think I'll hit up Hootie after this.

 

Following up on results after draining/filling ATF 3x (driving 100mi in-between) and replacing the ATF filter. Shuddering was still present after the first couple refills, though maybe a little less (still reliably happened every drive, lots of times). The old fluid looked about the same color as the new fluid and there was no metal on the plug.

I then refilled the third time, and at the same time replaced the ATF filter. Getting to the filter was a piece of cake since long ago I had replaced the stock intake with a short ram intake — win . Getting the clamps off the hoses was no fun though. It seems to have been worth the effort however: I’ve since driven it four times and haven’t had a single instance of a shudder/skip!

Based on that, I’d suggest anyone experiencing this issue replace their ATF filter. I saw a random comment on a YouTube video from someone else who said that fixed their issue too. Based on when the issue started happening to me, replacing it every 100k miles might be a good idea.

Here’s a link to buy one: Genuine Honda (25430-PLR-003) Transmission Filter https://a.co/d/3ppuJjY

 

Simple drain and fill like regular fluid replacement is fine. I'd encourage giving the car a good spirited drive to run it through the gears if you're going to do the 3 time "flush".

You can indeed try another ATF if you want but do keep this in mind... Fit 5ATs can be quirky during upshifts especially at lower speeds in city/town red light to red light traffic scenarios. You may experience scenarios were the torque converter is going from a locked to unlocked state or vice versa which at times can do an odd lurch or hesitation. You could also have a 3rd gear pressure switch doing some odd things as well and about its starting to give up the ghost.

Just try to keep an eye on it for the time being. Those typically set a P0847 DTC if I recall correctly and I'd encourage replacing the crush washer/seal with the switch if it does happen... ATF replacement is optional since you just did the 3 time "flush".

My personal recommendation is AmSoil's Signature Series Multi-Vehicle ATF. It meets ATF Z1 and DW1's fluid criteria BUT heat tolerance is MUCH better than Z1 (DW1's heat tolerance is worse than Z1 BUT better service life from what I've seen). For the last 6 or so years running it, I have no complaints. The ATF tolerates heat quite well even with the Kraftwerk's supercharger on my GD, shifts very smooth when commuting around town during errands, and seems to have a longer service life than DW1 (but can't say for sure since my GD now rarely gets driven and I don't have lab tests from companies like Blackstone for example).

Like mentioned Redline ATF is also another good option... Feel free to review this chart from Odyssey Club regarding ATFs.



I've yet to replace mine (still factory in line filter, pressure switches and axle seals) in it after 156k miles)... Been busy and forgetful. I'm sure it will indeed help though as I have two or three laying around here... somewhere. Haha

The biggest thing is getting the ATF up to operating temp and really running through the gears. I"ll have the vehicle on a lift running it from 1st to 5th (or 6th in some cars) a good 5 to 8 times between drain/fill cycles... holding gear a good 5 to 10 seconds during the upshifts and downshifts. Then I immediately drain the transmission and repeat until the 3rd fill. You also have to keep in mind that while the ATF cooler does run through the radiator.. It also doubles as the ATF warmer.