I just had the recall completed on my 09 Fit. The valve chatter I used to hear only at ~1700 RPM is now a constant chatter across all RPMs. The car sounds like a sewing machine.

The cowl only had one broken clip and the windshield wipers were correctly positioned. However, the wipers would not work.

I will be returning the Fit to this dealership to have the issues resolved. It looks like I'll have to find another dealership for future service.

Thanks for the heads up............. I have an appointment next week to get mine done, and i will definitely take photos, before, i take it in.

Got my 09 done today. 1.75hr job. Yes they broke a couple clips and scratched and gouged the top plastic cover (but thankfully I don't see a gap issue). Also I hear noticeable valve chatter now, especially at lower RPM's idling around a parking lot. Can't decide if I want to go back yet or not (lazy/busy). Seems to run about the same.

My wifes Fit had the work done the 23rd. I've been out of town but will check tomorrow and report back

I would bring it back .
 

I would bring it back , valve chatter sounds like valves are making noise because they are out of spec. Got my 09 done today. 1.75hr job. Yes they broke a couple clips and scratched and gouged the top plastic cover (but thankfully I don't see a gap issue). Also I hear noticeable valve chatter now, especially at lower RPM's idling around a parking lot. Can't decide if I want to go back yet or not (lazy/busy). Seems to run about the same.[/quote]

Here's my [long] story:

Got my letter Mar 14. Called in and got an appt for Mar 24. In the days before the appt I thought maybe I should wait a while so the dealer could get some practice at this fix first, especially after reading this thread. I finally concluded I was just being paranoid and things would likely be fine. So off I went.

Even though it was listed as 1.6 hr job, they wanted to keep it 6 hrs. At first I was annoyed since that forced me to take the shuttle to and from work but later I saw it was likely a good thing since I read about the 3-hr wait requirement.

When I picked up the car, all seemed good, they even washed it. Kind of a waste since we're currently in the spring thaw so it's really messy everywhere and the car would be dirty again in no time (this is important).

When I got home I popped open the hood and sure enough, I see a big gap by the cowl. I look over to the driver side and the fastener is missing too. I decide to wait a day or two to see if anything else shows up. Like I said, it's messy out at this time of year so coming home from work the next day I need the wipers and the sprayers don't work! I manage to get home with a dirty windshield and call my dealer. I explain the problem and the lady coldly asks, "So what day next week would work for you?" It was about 4 pm on Friday. I was pissed but calmly said, "My sprayers don't work and look at the weather right now. I need this fixed NOW." She then agreed to let me come in right away (they close at 6 pm).

After an hour at the dealer they get everything right. Official cause as per invoice: "Washer cowling popped out at the bottom and pinched the washer fluid line. Reinistalling cowling and replaced missing washer cowl clip."

I'm glad they finally got it right, but I also wonder if they screwed up the parts I can see, how'd they do on the parts I can't?

Here's my advice, take it or leave it:
- if you haven't gotten it done yet, wait a month or two for your dealer to get some "practice"
- when you bring it in, make sure you mention to be careful with the cowl
- when you pick it up and BEFORE you leave the dealer, check: clips/fasteners, gap, wiper sprayers

Hopefully all's good now.

amidst all of these negative reviews, i have had a pleasant experience at Honda of Pasadena, for those of you in socal.

Dropped the car off at noon, told me they'd be done by 4. Sure enough, my beautiful service advisor calls me 10 minutes before 4 and tell me my car is ready for pick-up. i was at work so i told her i'd pick it up tomorrow - which worked in favor of the "wait 3 hours before operating car" which i'm guessing is for the liquid gasket to set in nice and good before seeing operating temperatures.

i didn't say a thing about everyone on the forums complaining about the cowl clips being broken - cuz if the noob tech working on my car can't take that shit off without breaking it, he can't - it's not like he's intentionally ripping and breaking every clip. plus, i took pictures pre-drop off and had no worries. dealers that say they find a shortcut by taking the battery out or do the work without removing the cowl is bullshitting you. taking the valve cover off without removing the cowl would be like doing the back side blind-don't be surprised if the back half of your valve cover is missing bolts.

so today i went in, and less than 5 minutes i was out. right away i popped the hood, and there was ONE tab that wasn't clipped in it's proper spot but i was able to fix that on the spot. every single clip was back in its place, the whole cowl lined up perfect without scratches and my wipers and washers worked. did a walk around to make sure no dents or scratches and i was out. car seems quieter at idle also - and the valve tap i had before was almost completely gone - noticed in the work order they had included a valve adjustment with the labor.

pleasant 5 star experience...you wouldn't expect any less from a dealer that's been awarded the president's award 3 years running i guess.

PS - this facility is lowered car friendly. the service bay is ground level.

I'm an expert level Audi technician and I'm going to be bringing my Fit in on Monday to a local Honda dealer owned by my dealer chain. Kind of apprehensive to see what happens. I've had my cowl off to do lowering springs and I made damn sure everything went back together PERFECTLY. I had a windshield replaced at 22k and the glass guy did a great job. I only had to adjust the drivers wiper.

After reading all these issues I have to wonder how the techs complete the job and move onto the next one not checking wiper and washer operation, or over looking over the fit and finish of the panels they removed. Maybe its a different mentality - but something as visible and critical as the wipers/cowl should be done right. I mean, if they broke some clips - just go to parts and replace them.

I've broken plenty of parts in my time as a tech, but I would never let a car go knowing they have a borked trim panel or missing clip on a wiper cowl.

yay! !

which dealer is this? thanks

My brother is a technician at a Honda Dealership and he too said that the only reason to remove the cowl is to be able to use some long tool to unbolt something, and if they use stubby wrenches and stubby screwdriver, then it can be done without removing the cowling.

He also said that in his dealership he doesn't know anyone who does not use torque wrenches. He said also that after few initial jobs, it now only takes about 30 minutes.


By the way, has anyone thought about not doing the recall at all? What does the letter say about this being mandatory? Will this void the 60K power train warranty? And if I haven't received a letter and have not been otherwise notified by Honda, does that mean I am not expected to have learned about the recall on my own?

I am wondering if a remote and highly unlikely possibility of having the motion spring break really outweighs the harm that can be potentially done by inexperienced/sloppy technicians messing with torque sensitive valve train.

John21031.....30 minutes????? No way, if they (a) loosen all 16 valve rocker adjusters (b) remove the rocker assembly by loosening all of the bolts in the proper sequence and by no more than 2 turns at a time (c) disassemble the rocker assembly, replace the 4 LMS and reassemble (d) replace the rocker assembly by tightening all the bolts by no more than 2 turns at a time and final-torqueing every single one (e) resetting all 16 valve clearances, which requires a wrench, screwdriver, and feeler gauge for each one.

These steps are specified by the recall service bulletin or are referenced steps in the service manual. I have no doubt that someone can do "IT" faster using an air ratchet and paying no attention to the sequences or to the proper torque, and by not loosening all the valve clearances first. But the "IT" that they have done is NOT the same as the "IT" they are being told to do by the Honda engineers, in the service bulletin and the service manual.

It's becoming more obvious that many dealerships out there are waaaaay too concerned about speed and not enough about getting it done right.

Yes, I'm considering not having it done at all...or waiting until I can find the 4 springs and doing it myself. My preferred option is to find a dealership who will do it right. My local dealership has struck out, when the service manager told me that they are supposed to inspect the LMS for wear or cracks....and haven't found any yet, so have not replaced any. WOW.

geo

Good point. 30 min is insane.

My dealer already messed up my fit pretty badly, I am going to call them on Monday morning and will bring it back for a cowl replacement. Will report back when it gets done 'right'.

If the dealer is giving me any BS, probably the only solution is to call Honda CS - (800) 999-1009.

This is a very interesting thread that shows the variation in dealer service that so many of us run across. Some shops seem to have it down and can do this work without removing the cowl, while others are following the book and removing it, some with issues and others getting it right.

What comes out of all this is the final sign-off. Why a car is let go with cowl issues confuses me. They are not doing the job correctly, plain and simple, and this can only leave you thinking if they messed up on the trim pieces did they get nuts and bolts mechanics done correctly.

They all are a business and as consumers we can hope they're employing quality people on all ends of the service.

Some businesses are better than others and not all are bad, but 'dealer service' does end up getting the bad rap.

Even though I agree it sounds like insufficient time for this entire procedure though we should not underestimate the speed increase that comes with experience doing the same task even if it's complex and has multiple steps.

Each of those single operations takes seconds (make two turns of a bolt - 2 second by an experienced worker with exactly the wright socket/ratchet, so 16 of them is 32 seconds... They do not spend time thinking about what to do next or looking through the toolbox for the right socket as home mechanics would.

Similarly, think about a very familiar task of taking a shower, shaving, and brushing the teeth. If you were to spell each step out, it would sound like an overwhelming job, yet it can all be done in under 15 minutes. (Take off all the clothing neatly placing them on the rack on the wall). Remove socks. Place them in the basket. Do not mix dirty socks with clean socks. Step into the shower tub. Open the cold and a hot water tap. Mix in a ratio desired by your body (usually 40 C), take a shampoo bottle and open the cap. Prior to that rinse the entire body with water. Pour 1 ounce of the shampoo onto an open palm of a left hand. Close the cap, return the bottle to the shelve. Apply an even layer of shampoo onto the hair and leather until it is foamed.... I hope I make my point clear...

But nevertheless, we have people who don't even wash hands after using the restroom so it's reasonable to assume that there are mechanics who would not bother following the exact steps or using the torque wrench where needed.

They do get paid for the entire job but if they finish it quicker and get two cars in the same time, they are paid double.

I love my car and believe it was best assembled in Japan with their high quality standards, so I would not want to leave the engine's reliability to the trust of some US dealership mechanic. Removing an intake manifold and resetting all the gaskets is a significant repair in my opinion. So I don't know what I will do with mine but I definitely will not rush to take it to the dealership for them to practice the repair on my car.

Does anyone know what happens if you don't have the recall done and it causes issues later while still under warranty? Are you held responsible for not doing it in a timely manner?

I agree.

But I took a lot of heat for suggesting that this recall was significant.

Luckily for me? My Fit is NOT part of the recall. If it was? I think you HAVE to have the recall done. Not doing it really isn't a good option.

Once again, I'll say, Honda is replacing these springs at great cost to themselves because they have determined that it is in their best interest to replace these springs.

No guarantee a non-replaced engine would fail in X number of years, but that isn't a risk I'd want to take. And if it did fail either while still under warranty or after warranty and it was revealed you were notified and knew about the recall and elected to NOT have the work done? I'd think you'd have no grounds for recourse against Honda.

Hey everyone,

Took my 09 base Fit into Honda West in Calgary AB last Tuesday AM. They called me at about 11:00am saying they had lost a part of the valve train and would need the car overnight to get the part in. They agreed to give me a loaner and all was good. When I arrived to pick up the loaner I was trying to ask the girl which part was lost. Another service rep interrupted and said they lost one of the 4 lms springs in the kit. In all actuality the spring that was lost was a springs somewhere in the rocker assembly and flew out of place during disassembly. This rubbed me the wrong way as I hate people making things up just to get me to walk out the door. Anyways, the next day (Wed) they call me to come pick up the car and everything is complete. I arrive and a service rep gives me the paper work and says everything is working good and the engine is quiet just like before. I go into the service manager who was looking after my case and asked for an explanation of the work done b\c on the paperwork it described replacing a rocker arm. He informed me that I was the first of three FIT lms recalls that had faulty rocker arms. Mine was on #1 cylinder and the issue is it wouldn't torque down to proper spec on re-assembly. However, in saying all that, he said the recall work went fine and everything is good. I asked him if it was common place to replace just one rocker arm as I wasn't sure if due to wear etc all rocker arms should be replaced and he said its normal to only replace one.

So I go out to my car and start her up and my engine sounded like a bad sewing machine or like when you put baseball cards in your bike tires to sound like a motorcycle. I revved it a couple times to see if it was consistent through the power band and it was. I was very upset - firstly I had been misinformed several times about what was going on with my car and now the service tech worked on my lms recall and rocker arm replacement drove my car out of the shop sounding like that (obviously with the valves badly out of time). I took a minute to calm down and went back in to the service manager and explained that the engine sounded like crap. He called the shop forman out and he accompanied me to my car. I popped the hood and he told me to start it. Within two seconds he waved and yelled "THATS ENOUGH". He closed the hood and started walking back to the dealership shaking his head - obviously knowing how shoddy a tech he must have that let a car leave his shop that way. We get back to the service manager and he says I have to leave the car overnight again and that the valves need to be timed. At this point I spoke up and insisted that the foreman not only oversee the valve timing but inspect the work done on the lms recall because the tech working on both obviously didn't care enough about the work he was doing and let a car leave the shop sounding that awful. He agreed that he would and again I was left with a loaner for one more day.

On Thursday I returned to pick up my car and once again they say everything is fixed and good. I get the paperwork and go out to my car. The first problem is my key won't go into the driver side lock. In the thousands of times I've opened my door I've never had a problem with my key going in and even with flipping the key it wouldn't go in smoothly. After messing around with it for a few minutes it went in and unlocked but the mechanism sounded a little weird. I know the recall had nothing to do with the door lock but I can assure everyone that it was smooth as silk before going into the shop. I started the engine and finally it sounded smooth and normal. I popped the hood and checked that all the clips and fasteners were in tact. The battery had been removed and I too noticed some type of lubricant or fluid that was on a few spots in the engine & battery. I assume this is just from re assembly yet indicative of how this dealership views care and clean up. Upon closing my hood I see that the radio is reset and asking for the code. I've never had to enter the code for my radio and I now know where the code is located, but after this crappy three day experience I was pissed about the door lock and that they didn't take the 30s to reset the bloody radio. So I go back into the shop again and they send a tech out who showed me where the code was and looked at the lock. He said " maybe its the key" and I said "they key works on all the other locks fine " and he said " maybe its frozen" and I said "none of the other locks are frozen - it just feels messed up" and he goes "well I was working on the recall of you car yesterday and it worked" and I said "well you drove my car outta the shop without timing the valves so really thats all I need to know isn't it" and he goes " whatever" and walks away. My blood was boiling at this point and I got in my car and drove off to cool down. The engine is preforming as good as it was before and is fine through the whole power band. The only small thing I notice is sometimes its idle drops to 300-400 rpm and the car gets a small shutter then after a few seconds returns to normal. Never seen it do that before and don't know what it could be. I am currently drafting a letter to Honda West and Honda Canada to express my deep displeasure with this experience. I've owned Honda's my whole life and have only had positive experiences. I've had good experiences with this dealership so far and expected nothing less with this recall. I've read all the posts on the recall on these forums and maybe naively expected the quality Honda puts into its cars would also be put into the standards of their Honda Certified Technicians but sadly this seems its not the case.

I am interested in what they come back with as some form of customer retention. I love the vehicles Honda makes but to have such awful mechanical services in place, in case something does go wrong is almost enough for me to look elsewhere for my next purchase. I love my Fit - quite honestly one of the best cars I have ever owned, and before last Tuesday I could have guaranteed my next car would be a Honda. Now I'm very much on the fence.......

Kris H.
Calgary AB

P.S. if anyone is interested in seeing the paper work on the rocker arm I can scan and post it later.

John.....I think this is what's the root-cause of the problem. Certainly a person with the right talents can get both fast and accurate with training and practice, as the factory workers in Suzuka, Japan are. However, the US dealership mechanics are not the same highly trained people. And they have NO experience taking apart and reassembling the rocker assembly on the Fit engine. Dealership techs in this country mostly do routine maintenance interval work.

If I can find a set of the springs, I won't hesitate to do this work myself.

geo

I just had my fit done on Friday. Upon driving it home, to me it seemed to idle somewhat rought (like missing a cylinder every 10 seconds or so). I blew it off as I was optimistically thinking I was overlooking things. I didn't drive it Saturday, but drove it today and the idle is about the same, but there is a lot of valve chatter noise. I can hear it inside the car if the radio is at low volume. I am definitely taking it back now.

I hope you don't mind that I condensed your post......you have given some excellent examples of the "make up a story" technique used by service people who either have no clue themselves, or think the customers are idiots.

FYI....regarding that bit about the #1 rocker arm that wouldn't torque down properly, the service manual (pages 6-32 to 6-35) shows pretty clearly that the rocker arms are NOT bolted down to the head with individual holders. They are assembled on the shaft and that whole assembly is trapped between the head and the rocker shaft holder bridge. ie one piece of metal (the rocker shaft holder bridge) holds ALL the rockers to the head. That's why the bridge bolts have to be loosened only 2 turns at a time, and in specified sequence, for removal. Then tightened the same way and individually final-torqued, for reassembly.

Usually when somebody says "it wouldn't torque down to proper spec" it really means that they stripped something by overtorqueing with an air tool. Since the guy was obviously making it up on the fly, it's hard to conclude that's what happened.