Transmission Fluid Change Concern
Transmission Fluid Change Concern
Hi all, new here. I browsed some of the topics related to my question but didn’t find anything related to my specific concern.
i have a 2009 Honda Fit sport with just shy of 156,000 miles. My grandma and I have shared it since it was brand new, but I’ve only been the primary owner/user of it lately and I’ve taken an interest in doing my own work on it. After a couresty inspection and a list of things to do, I decided to do a transmission fluid change rather than pay the mechanic $250 to do it for me. I spent about a week looking at a lot of YouTube videos and reading through these forums to make sure I knew how to do it. Based on what I learned, I’m expecting to do a drain and fill about 3 times.
Im not sure if the transmission fluid has ever been changed, as my grandma regularly took it to the mechanic when she was he main user and basically just did everything the mechanic recommended she do. I’m not sure if changing the ATF was ever part of that.
I’m using the recommended Honda ATF-Z1 fluid. I did my first drain and fill the other day and replaced it with just over 2.5 quartz of new fluid. No problems and the shifting is smooth. After putting about 100 miles on it, I just did the second drain and fill tonight.
When I drained it the first time, the fluid was definitely dirty. But this second time, it seems a lot blacker and dirtier than on the first change. I just checked the fluid again after a 10 minute test drive and the new fluid is already looking pretty gross and brown/black even though I just put it in. Again, no problems on my test drive and the shifting was really smooth, probably even smoother than after the first round.
But I’m concerned about how dirty the fluid already appears. Is this normal, or have I don’t something wrong? Is this an indication that the fluid has never been changed and it’s just that much dirtier and will take longer to get it all out? How many times should I do this before I cave and have a mechanic do it for me?
Thanks!
i have a 2009 Honda Fit sport with just shy of 156,000 miles. My grandma and I have shared it since it was brand new, but I’ve only been the primary owner/user of it lately and I’ve taken an interest in doing my own work on it. After a couresty inspection and a list of things to do, I decided to do a transmission fluid change rather than pay the mechanic $250 to do it for me. I spent about a week looking at a lot of YouTube videos and reading through these forums to make sure I knew how to do it. Based on what I learned, I’m expecting to do a drain and fill about 3 times.
Im not sure if the transmission fluid has ever been changed, as my grandma regularly took it to the mechanic when she was he main user and basically just did everything the mechanic recommended she do. I’m not sure if changing the ATF was ever part of that.
I’m using the recommended Honda ATF-Z1 fluid. I did my first drain and fill the other day and replaced it with just over 2.5 quartz of new fluid. No problems and the shifting is smooth. After putting about 100 miles on it, I just did the second drain and fill tonight.
When I drained it the first time, the fluid was definitely dirty. But this second time, it seems a lot blacker and dirtier than on the first change. I just checked the fluid again after a 10 minute test drive and the new fluid is already looking pretty gross and brown/black even though I just put it in. Again, no problems on my test drive and the shifting was really smooth, probably even smoother than after the first round.
But I’m concerned about how dirty the fluid already appears. Is this normal, or have I don’t something wrong? Is this an indication that the fluid has never been changed and it’s just that much dirtier and will take longer to get it all out? How many times should I do this before I cave and have a mechanic do it for me?
Thanks!
If your mechanic charges $250 for something that's easier than an oil change you should find a new mechanic.
Honda recommends one change (not drain-and-fill three times) at 60k miles. So if you're doing that three times it should be sufficient. Each change gets less than half the fluid out but 3X gets most of it.
Honda recommends one change (not drain-and-fill three times) at 60k miles. So if you're doing that three times it should be sufficient. Each change gets less than half the fluid out but 3X gets most of it.
Yep just do it three times. If it's never been changed you're doing very helpful preventive maintenance; if it has been, you aren't hurting anything.
I changed my fluid at 25K miles, not 3x, but just out of caution -- Honda AT do not have a sterling reputation for long term reliability unfortunately. Sounds like yours is holding up well though!!
I changed my fluid at 25K miles, not 3x, but just out of caution -- Honda AT do not have a sterling reputation for long term reliability unfortunately. Sounds like yours is holding up well though!!
First off, hello and welcome!
Secondly, I do agree with Brain Champagne. ATF replacement is relatively simple especially on the second gen Fit as well as the fact that some dealerships do NOT even charge 200 bucks to replace ATF. In fact mine for example actually charges $119.99 before tax on ATF replacement for ATF Z1 and DW1 cars. So you may want to speak with your mechanic and see what's going on about that price.
In addition to that and to clarify, ATF Z1 has been phased out since about 2010 to 2011 and replaced with ATF DW1; which is backwards compatible with transmissions that were factory filled with Z1. So you may have actually gotten either ATF DW1 if acquired recently though a Honda parts house or may possibly have found an older stash if Z1.
As for service intervals on ATF... go 30k miles or 2 years, which ever first. I understand that the initial drain and fill is recommended at 60k miles (and know that your Fit is well beyond that mileage interval) BUT from what I've seen first hand is that around 40k to 50k miles of service, the ATF DW1 starts to degrade and some folks have complained of a judder that is similar to that of a torque converter judder (which was a bit of an issue in the past; especially on older ATF Z1 vehicles). This is more common on V6s equipped models but can arise on I4 models as well if the fluid condition gets bad enough.
With that said, its not uncommon to see ATF remain somewhat dark during the beginning of a multiple drain and refill... Just keep an eye on the tint of the fluid when starting. Generally speaking if the ATF is horrid in condition, the initial drain will be a dark brown then next drain ends up being a darker red (think like a red wine), then of course continue to lighten and get more red with each following drain and refill after the ATF gets up the temp and the transmission's gears gets cycled by either being ran on a lift or driven on the road. If you want added insurance, you can also change the inline ATF filter as well during the final ATF replacement.
Part number is 25430-PLR-003 and link provided below for reference.
I would recommend draining and refilling about 3 or 4 times, making sure that you get the ATF up to temp and cycled through the transmission while driving, on a lift or jack stands. If you want as extra insurance replace the inline filter. It should be located on the back side of the transmission (firewall side) near the top of the transmission case. There should be a black metal band holding it in place with a 10mm bolt securing it with two hose clamps on both ends of the filter, Somewhat easy to access... The ATF lines might give you a fight though if the filter is original.
Secondly, I do agree with Brain Champagne. ATF replacement is relatively simple especially on the second gen Fit as well as the fact that some dealerships do NOT even charge 200 bucks to replace ATF. In fact mine for example actually charges $119.99 before tax on ATF replacement for ATF Z1 and DW1 cars. So you may want to speak with your mechanic and see what's going on about that price.
In addition to that and to clarify, ATF Z1 has been phased out since about 2010 to 2011 and replaced with ATF DW1; which is backwards compatible with transmissions that were factory filled with Z1. So you may have actually gotten either ATF DW1 if acquired recently though a Honda parts house or may possibly have found an older stash if Z1.
As for service intervals on ATF... go 30k miles or 2 years, which ever first. I understand that the initial drain and fill is recommended at 60k miles (and know that your Fit is well beyond that mileage interval) BUT from what I've seen first hand is that around 40k to 50k miles of service, the ATF DW1 starts to degrade and some folks have complained of a judder that is similar to that of a torque converter judder (which was a bit of an issue in the past; especially on older ATF Z1 vehicles). This is more common on V6s equipped models but can arise on I4 models as well if the fluid condition gets bad enough.
With that said, its not uncommon to see ATF remain somewhat dark during the beginning of a multiple drain and refill... Just keep an eye on the tint of the fluid when starting. Generally speaking if the ATF is horrid in condition, the initial drain will be a dark brown then next drain ends up being a darker red (think like a red wine), then of course continue to lighten and get more red with each following drain and refill after the ATF gets up the temp and the transmission's gears gets cycled by either being ran on a lift or driven on the road. If you want added insurance, you can also change the inline ATF filter as well during the final ATF replacement.
Part number is 25430-PLR-003 and link provided below for reference.
I would recommend draining and refilling about 3 or 4 times, making sure that you get the ATF up to temp and cycled through the transmission while driving, on a lift or jack stands. If you want as extra insurance replace the inline filter. It should be located on the back side of the transmission (firewall side) near the top of the transmission case. There should be a black metal band holding it in place with a 10mm bolt securing it with two hose clamps on both ends of the filter, Somewhat easy to access... The ATF lines might give you a fight though if the filter is original.
Once we took the Civic to the dealer and that was $90 for them to drain ~3 qts / refill ~3 qts. The issue is that the the FIT's transmission's “overhaul” volume is 6.2 qts, so 3 qts is only 50% of the total (50% clean / 50% dirty). As you can see another 50% of the ATF is in the torque converter / passageways / nooks & crannies.
For the same $90 and some of my time, I can buy 12 qts of Honda's DW-1 and drain / fill 3 qts:
1. 1st stage 50% changed = 50% old ATF;
2. 2nd stage 50% of that 50/50 gets changed = 25% old ATF;
3. 3rd stage 50% of the 25/75 gets changed = 12.5% old ATF;
4. 4th stage 50% of the 12.5/87.5 changed = 6.25% old ATF or approx. 94% new;
5. You can see that this method is asymptotic and will never achieve 100% new but great improvement.
So, after running 12 qts through the tranny, I’ve got approximately 94% new ATF rather than pay the dealer $90 and only have 50% new ATF. I’ve been doing this every 30,000 miles on both cars (Civic & FIT)u seems to be working (120K on Civic and 72K on FIT).
For the same $90 and some of my time, I can buy 12 qts of Honda's DW-1 and drain / fill 3 qts:
1. 1st stage 50% changed = 50% old ATF;
2. 2nd stage 50% of that 50/50 gets changed = 25% old ATF;
3. 3rd stage 50% of the 25/75 gets changed = 12.5% old ATF;
4. 4th stage 50% of the 12.5/87.5 changed = 6.25% old ATF or approx. 94% new;
5. You can see that this method is asymptotic and will never achieve 100% new but great improvement.
So, after running 12 qts through the tranny, I’ve got approximately 94% new ATF rather than pay the dealer $90 and only have 50% new ATF. I’ve been doing this every 30,000 miles on both cars (Civic & FIT)u seems to be working (120K on Civic and 72K on FIT).
Last edited by spike55_bmw; Nov 29, 2018 at 07:30 PM.
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