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3rd Gen GK Specific Fit Engine Modifications, Motor Swaps, ECU Tuning Sub-ForumThreads discussing engine mods/swaps/tuning for the third generation GK Honda Fit.
How much in total should we expect to lets say drop in a k20? Will it pass emissions and inspections? Ballpark figure would help, thanks in advance
There are no K20s that are compatible with the engine mounts. Only the K24Z3/Z7 are compatible with them.
I emailed Hasport a few months ago asking about this, as well as a few other questions. Here's those questions, as well as Brian Gillespie's answers:
Q: Which engines is your 15-19 Fit K-swap Mount Kit compatible with?
A: The K24Z with transmission from the 08-13 Honda Accord, 09-14 Acura TSX and the 12-15 Civci Si
Q: Of those engines, which would be the easiest to swap into the GK5?
A: Any one of those engines, but probably with the 12-15 Si ECU.
Q: Would I be able to run a dual ECU setup like Spoon in Japan did with their K20A swapped GK5 (apparently they used the FD2 Type R ECU to run the engine and DBW throttle body, and the Honda Fit's ECU to run all the interior electronics)
A: Most likely, but I’m not familiar with what they did. It may not be necessary though. The 12-25 Si ECU may be compatible and communicate with the Fit dash.
Although I'm still worried about the wiring for the K-swap (considering nobody has done it before, as well as the Coronavirus leaving many people too broke to even try at this point), I'm glad Brian gave us some some answers to clear up the fog.
Hope that helps!
Last edited by Sulayman Ahmed; May 2, 2020 at 08:16 AM.
How's this coming along 2.5 years later???
*** READING is fundamental! ***
Sorry guys, jumped into an empty thread. Glad to see y'all are close. Good luck!!!
Originally Posted by axion_industries
Hey guys
Wanted to start a new group for the swap we are doing in our Gk5. We hydrolocked the motor in the Fit and decided we needed to be the first to do this along with Hasport. Since this motor is going to be very available at junk yards to do the swap it will be much better than the K24z7 and smog legal witht he years of the motors coming out " depending on your State and smog laws"
We sourced the L15B7 from a 2017 EXT with 20,000 miles on it and came with longblock, turbo, 6 speed trans and ECU
I will be updating off and on and the swap should be done within the next month or so.
We will not be stock on this motor and will have some nice bolt ons with E40 making around 280whp and over 300tq
I sent an email to Axion yesterday asking about the status of the motor swap project, and they said the car is waiting for Hasport to finish the wiring. So I guess good news that they haven't forgotten about us, and bad news that any further progress is out of their hands. Sounds like Hasport is busy with other things first, no real guess when it will be done.
Asked Hasport and they didn't give any estimate on time, but did say they're still going to do the wiring. Apparently they're not going to sell a kit, but if they get the harness done for one car, I'm sure Axion will be able to copy it for production. Hasport also said they will make the axles.
Edit- asked RV6 about compatibility between L15B and K24 downpipe collectors, if the bolt pattern is the same then it might not even require a custom part.
Last edited by hasdrubal; Sep 5, 2020 at 12:42 PM.
RV6 has already made a K swap downpipe. They say they still have the tooling to make more ($350), but it ends in a tube with no mounting flange, because the Fit exhaust is too restrictive for the larger engine. They suggest a custom exhaust from the downpipe back. They wouldn't tell me who they made it for, which I understand, but it adds to a problem.
Hasport will make axles for a K swap, price is $444. However, they will not be selling the wiring harness once they get Axion's car running. Not sure why if they're the ones making the mounts and making at least one single harness. They also will not provide any diagrams or other info on how people can make their own harness. Not that they have to, obviously. It's their business and there's no reason for them to give potential customers the means to not give them money.
Axion will also not be selling the harness, and they didn't really give any explanation on why, or any suggestions on where to go from here. I know, they don't owe me anything and if I have a problem that doesn't make it their job to fix it. On the other hand, they have the mounts for sale on their site, they will probably at some point have a running car with wiring sorted out, and I can't buy them if I don't think I can get the car to run.
So, mounts, axles, exhaust, are all available. A catback shouldn't be too difficult off a downpipe, anyway. And unless I'm missing something, I don't know if it does any good. I certainly don't have the skillset to make a custom harness or sort out any compatibility problems, and I'm not really wanting to bring a pile of parts to a tuner shop and say 'blank check, let me know when you figure it out.' Does anyone know of a shop or a good place to start research on harness construction?
Edit- at this point I'm mostly hoping that Axion misunderstood me and will still sell a complete swap kit as their posts imply from a while back, just not a harness by itself. Really don't want to keep bothering them, though, not like it's going to make anything happen faster.
Last edited by hasdrubal; Sep 11, 2020 at 12:03 AM.
Well, I couldn't help myself, and on Sunday I sent another email to Axion, asking if they were still intending to sell the whole kit together once the wiring was done. They haven't responded yet.
AEM did respond, they said their Infinity 506 would work with a K24 if you swap cam and crank triggers from the older K20. Figuring out CANBUS coding to make it work with the factory gauge cluster isn't really something they do, but they have a 7" LCD dash replacement that really looks more like it's intended for race cars, but will work without any hacking or splicing. Unfortunately, the ECU and dash are about $1400 each.
CD7 display looks pretty sharp, but not sure I want to spend $3k on engine management. This is still less than Z062Fit is spending on an NA build, but unless Axion decides to sell the whole kit together, it's looking like more money than it's worth.
What all stuff doesn't work at the end of the swap?
You get the AEM ECU and display, buy a donor k motor, and Axion motor mounts. I am guessing you have to buy a transmission that works with the Kseries engine? And custom axles? Will AC work, or do you have to have somebody do that? What about keyless entry, Honda infotainment, air bags, etc? I MAY have been better off k-swapping my car since I want to just track it anyways, but I think a built L15B1 might work better for fitting in with accessories and stuff. Also, Bad Guys Worldwide out of Ventura CA have better prices than some of the ones I went after. They seem to have some L15 experience which is what I was trying to find stateside before I decided to add overseas shipping to my long list of expenses... Good luck guys and girls! Z062FIT
I don't know the answers to most of that, there's a good chance axles could be made by swapping CV joints on other Honda axles, but I don't have a book of dimensions handy to figure out which ones. Hasport's mounts are intended for a K series transmission, though.
No idea on the rest of the electronics, but I wouldn't hope for everything to work- I'm still learning about CANBUS, but apparently each car is different on how much is tied into the system. Like since we don't have a sophisticated climate control setup, I bet it wouldn't be an issue, but infotainment might be more integrated.
As much as I enjoy driving the Fit, there's a limit on how much I'm willing to spend before it becomes better to just get a different car. Still hoping for good news from Axion, but without that, I'm more leaning towards the Bad Guys head work and a good tune. I reached out to them, it might be worth an ebay cylinder head.
We're getting rather far from the original thread subject, but might as well continue-
I'm looking at the BGWW page listing flow numbers for a GE Fit head, and I thought it was great at first. Then I realized the cam specs for the GK don't have anything like the amount of lift on the chart. That is, they list numbers all the way up to .550 lift, and looking back at Myxal's 2015 Deltacam thread, the max lift on VTEC is .386, up from .360 stock.
I've never had any head work done, so I'm not sure what to take from their chart. That is, I don't know enough to figure out if there could still be meaningful gains overall. The chart shows lower numbers than stock at some points, does that mean while the valve isn't at peak lift as it moves, it balances out? That's somewhat a rhetorical question, in that I don't have the experience to answer it, but maybe someone else here has more experience.
Been trying to do some research on flow rates in general and I'm aware that CFM isn't a direct guide to hp, but I haven't learned too much more than that yet.
Posted some of this in another thread, but it's relevant here, so-
BGWW got back to me, larger exhaust valves would cost $300 per valve to install, so $2400 without any other head work. I don't think this seems out of line price wise, but at the same time I don't know that it's worth it for me. At least, not without seeing the results first power wise. Maybe when Z062Fit gets his engine together we'll see the power potential in head work, but I'm not ready to be the guinea pig.
Back to the engine swap info, it looks like axles might be cheaper than I first thought. Seems like Honda uses the same size joints for different 4 lug cars, and using OEM RSX (base model, not type S) axles with the inner joints swapped side for side works for older Civics. I can't confirm that they use the same joints as the Fit, but the GK has almost the same front track width. More info here-
No good news on the electronics, I found a forum entry from AEM talking about using a standalone ECU with a CANBUS dash on an S2000. Generally, they don't work, but Science of Speed has an adapter that translates the AEM signals into language the S2k dash can display. I'm told that different cars use different language, like they're closer to being firmware than being an operating system, so unless someone knows enough about coding to read the signals and rig up a translation device, it's not happening.
I posted earlier that the AEM unit needed K20 cam and crank sensors to work on a K24Z3. This is more difficult than I hoped, the two motors have different timing chain covers that do not share a bolt pattern. There's a company making swap kits for the Miata that figured this out and makes a cover with the old style sensor on the new style bolt pattern, so it's possible. Not sure how expensive, and I'm not going to bother the company because the rest of the electronics package is out of my budget. Info here if anyone else is interested, supposedly they will be selling the cover separate for those of us who don't own Miatas.
The only way I see this working at a reasonable cost is if a Civic ECU uses the same CANBUS language or similar enough for the Fit dash to display it. The connectors look to have different pin configurations, though, (looking at photos of used parts, not the most scientific method) so this will require some kind of adapter harness if it works at all.
That's awesome, but the digital dash there strongly implies they're using a standalone ECU. This is an option for us today in the States, but it's not cheap.
That's awesome, but the digital dash there strongly implies they're using a standalone ECU. This is an option for us today in the States, but it's not cheap.
Well, these guys build cars for a number of race teams, and this particular one had won quite a few rounds in the Super Turbo 2020 series. The car is on a Motec M142.
Still waiting on wiring being finished, reason its taking forever is this is a smog legal no lights on the dash swap, all these cars you see in Asia are race cars and the K motors are much easier due to the ecu being used
