2015 Fit "jerky" when stopped (low idle?)
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 31
From: Portland, OR USA
I do still wonder if there is any type of computer reset one should do after a job like this. I had heard that unhooking the MAF sensor (et al in this case) would require a reset procedure. Not sure if that is true for these newer Fits or not. I did try one thing I had read a while back when looking at simply cleaning the throttle body:
turn ignition on for 2 sec (turn off AC, radio, defrost, etc), then start the engine, revving it to 3000 RPM for ~3min (or until the radiator fan comes on...I cannot tell if and when mine does for some reason..maybe it isn't? Maybe that's a source of concern?). Once the fan comes on, let off the gas and let idle with no load for 10 min
Anyone heard whether this reset is something needed, if there are others that should be performed when even more sensors were disconnected (everything connected to the intake/manifold and valve cover), and/or whether the procedure described above is accurate?
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 31
From: Portland, OR USA
Decided to try and tidy this post up to make things easier for others.
So, I have been having this issue where my 2015 Fit (Ex-L fwiw) has been seemingly, idling rough. It was a little "jumpy" feeling at stop lights, which progressively has been getting worse. It seemed to happen when the car had warmed up (less noticeable or at all when the car had just been started). Putting it in park when stopped, seemed to make the bucking less noticeable. I have not noticed anything odd when moving (no noticeable loss of power, hesitation, or rough running while driving). If I had to sit at a light for more than a few seconds, it began feeling like my car would stall if I didn't put my car into park,and push the gas pedal down. I couldn't see the RPM needle going down too low (normally idling around 600-800 rpms), but it would dip a tad, then bounce back up. So, I assumed the issue I had was a "low" or "rough" idle.
I have talked to loads of folks and done lots of searches online. And I have gotten dozens of suggestions, some conflicting with others. This is what I had tried, and the results:
1st -Using Fuel Injector Cleaner: I had actually gone through a few bottles of this stuff. It didn't seem to make much (if any) of an impact.
2nd - Replacing the air filter: Probably something you should do, especially if it is really dirty. A new one can be purchased for as little as $15, and it takes all of two minutes, and zero tools to replace. This is something I think you should never pay a mechanic for, because even an idiot (like me) can do it themselves. This did NOT fix my issue.
3rd -Replacing the spark plugs: done, but probably didn't need it at 68k anyway. Did not help.
4th -Cleaning the throttle body: this is the most suggested solution to a rough idle like mine. I was very intimidated by taking it off, initially. But with a socket set, some throttle body cleaner, and a youtube video, I think anyone can try this. All you gotta do is take off the airbox/intake hose. There are a few wires and hoses to unhook. The picture below shows the part I couldn't figure out how to remove. Turns out, the airbox has two bolts on either side of the engine air filter box. Once those are removed, and all the connecting wires/hoses are unhooked, the intake hose and airbox pop right off. Then all I had to do was unscrew the 4 bolts to get the TB out. I sprayed it and scrubbed it out with a rag. Unfortunately, while it seemed to have fixed the problem once starting the car back up (and no rough idle), as soon as I started driving home, and stopped at a light, the bucking came back. (I want to note that when I was trying to rev the engine after putting everything back together, I could not hold the RPMs at or above 3000 RPMs. After a minute or two, it would abruptly drop back down to sub 1000RPMs, even when I hadn't let off the accelerator!)
I finally decided to take it to a shop after the TB cleaning didn't solve my issue. They charged me $170 for a diagnostic. There was no check engine light, and the computer wasn't throwing any codes (although, the work order says that the computer was showing misfires on all of the cylinders, apparently). I guess they proceeded with a visual inspection, where they supposedly used a camera and light inside the engine and found: carbon buildup in the fuel induction system, and they could see ample enough light coming through the valve lashes, that they felt the valves needed to be adjusted. They claimed these issues were bad enough that I "shouldn't drive" the car in this condition. But they also said, while these things "needed to be done", and would "likely fix" my issue, they could not guarantee that it would. My friend told me to go get my car from the shop. As an ex shop owner and mechanic, he said you should never let a shop do work on your car, when they don't feel confident it will fix the problem I brought it there for. And he also didn't seem convinced that my car needed any of this stuff done, when I had only 67k mi on it....at least that it shouldn't be as bad as they claimed. By the time I got a hold of the shop, they had already done the induction flush, but hadn't started on the valve adjustment. So the next thing we tried was...
5th - Induction System Flush: This seemed to make my car appear to have been "fixed". It definitely didn't appear to be idling rough (or noticeably so). But, after a couple of days, the rough idle came back. I am actually kind of pissed I let them do this procedure, because I hadn't realized what it entailed. Apparently, a throttle body cleaning is a big part of the labor that they charge you for. They knew I had already done this. So I was wondering WTF they did do for $240 (+$170 for the diagnostic..so $411 I had to put on my CC, which is nearly maxxed out!). Beyond cleaning the TB, all that this procedure has left to do, is an intake flush, which is a bottle of solvent you can buy at NAPA for like, $30-40, as well as some fuel injector cleaner. The latter is even cheaper, AND I had already tried fuel additives, to no avail. Just talking about it now, kind of pisses me off.
In any case, there has been a lot of back and forth as to whether I should have allowed them to also adjust my valves. Of all of the folks here (as well as friends) who even know what that entails, about half of them seem to think it would have been the right thing to do, to allow them to complete the procedure. The logic being, the valve lashing (spacing) between the rocker arms and the top of valve stem. If the gaps grow too large, or get too tight, it will screw with the engine timing causing it to fire incorrectly, which can introduce a rough idle. It seems that this also usually causes poor fuel efficiency as well as loss of engine power. So I can understand why people would suggest it. However, I am starting to lean more towards the camp that feels that this a) isn't likely causing my car's symptoms specifically, and b) that at as low of mileage as my car has, it is pretty unlikely that these valve adjustments would be super necessary at this juncture. After speaking to a Honda certified mechanic over the phone, he said that it is usually not recommended to make any adjustments to the valves, unless there is an obvious issue there. And, that doing so can possibly make things worse. That being said, I decided to tackle the project myself anyway...if nothing else, I wanted to see if the mechanic who had my car was jerking me around when he was telling me how bad they were. It seemed like it wasn't TOO difficult a task, with a few inexpensive tools such as some feelers from Amazon , a little liquid gasket (recommended for tightening up the space where there are a couple of sharp corners), and something to pinch off the coolant hoses..as well as this handy video I found on YouTube ... So, the next thing I did was to...
5th - ... Adjust the Valve Lashes: it took me a couple of tries to get it right. The first time it got dark, so I had to frantically put my car back together without checking all of the lashes as well as I would like. I took another crack at it today, since it was Saturday, and nice outside. This time, I was a lot more meticulous with my measurements. I double/triple checked all of the lashes with feelers that I had added some tape to the handles of, since they were really slippery last time (all the engine oil floating around in the crankcase). I definitely feel like my engine sounded nice and smooth when idling in park. But I am going to have to drive it around a bit to see if, after warming up, it goes back to acting like it will stall at stop lights/signs. I feel nearly positive that it will.
So, I have been having this issue where my 2015 Fit (Ex-L fwiw) has been seemingly, idling rough. It was a little "jumpy" feeling at stop lights, which progressively has been getting worse. It seemed to happen when the car had warmed up (less noticeable or at all when the car had just been started). Putting it in park when stopped, seemed to make the bucking less noticeable. I have not noticed anything odd when moving (no noticeable loss of power, hesitation, or rough running while driving). If I had to sit at a light for more than a few seconds, it began feeling like my car would stall if I didn't put my car into park,and push the gas pedal down. I couldn't see the RPM needle going down too low (normally idling around 600-800 rpms), but it would dip a tad, then bounce back up. So, I assumed the issue I had was a "low" or "rough" idle.
I have talked to loads of folks and done lots of searches online. And I have gotten dozens of suggestions, some conflicting with others. This is what I had tried, and the results:
1st -Using Fuel Injector Cleaner: I had actually gone through a few bottles of this stuff. It didn't seem to make much (if any) of an impact.
2nd - Replacing the air filter: Probably something you should do, especially if it is really dirty. A new one can be purchased for as little as $15, and it takes all of two minutes, and zero tools to replace. This is something I think you should never pay a mechanic for, because even an idiot (like me) can do it themselves. This did NOT fix my issue.
3rd -Replacing the spark plugs: done, but probably didn't need it at 68k anyway. Did not help.
4th -Cleaning the throttle body: this is the most suggested solution to a rough idle like mine. I was very intimidated by taking it off, initially. But with a socket set, some throttle body cleaner, and a youtube video, I think anyone can try this. All you gotta do is take off the airbox/intake hose. There are a few wires and hoses to unhook. The picture below shows the part I couldn't figure out how to remove. Turns out, the airbox has two bolts on either side of the engine air filter box. Once those are removed, and all the connecting wires/hoses are unhooked, the intake hose and airbox pop right off. Then all I had to do was unscrew the 4 bolts to get the TB out. I sprayed it and scrubbed it out with a rag. Unfortunately, while it seemed to have fixed the problem once starting the car back up (and no rough idle), as soon as I started driving home, and stopped at a light, the bucking came back. (I want to note that when I was trying to rev the engine after putting everything back together, I could not hold the RPMs at or above 3000 RPMs. After a minute or two, it would abruptly drop back down to sub 1000RPMs, even when I hadn't let off the accelerator!)
I finally decided to take it to a shop after the TB cleaning didn't solve my issue. They charged me $170 for a diagnostic. There was no check engine light, and the computer wasn't throwing any codes (although, the work order says that the computer was showing misfires on all of the cylinders, apparently). I guess they proceeded with a visual inspection, where they supposedly used a camera and light inside the engine and found: carbon buildup in the fuel induction system, and they could see ample enough light coming through the valve lashes, that they felt the valves needed to be adjusted. They claimed these issues were bad enough that I "shouldn't drive" the car in this condition. But they also said, while these things "needed to be done", and would "likely fix" my issue, they could not guarantee that it would. My friend told me to go get my car from the shop. As an ex shop owner and mechanic, he said you should never let a shop do work on your car, when they don't feel confident it will fix the problem I brought it there for. And he also didn't seem convinced that my car needed any of this stuff done, when I had only 67k mi on it....at least that it shouldn't be as bad as they claimed. By the time I got a hold of the shop, they had already done the induction flush, but hadn't started on the valve adjustment. So the next thing we tried was...
5th - Induction System Flush: This seemed to make my car appear to have been "fixed". It definitely didn't appear to be idling rough (or noticeably so). But, after a couple of days, the rough idle came back. I am actually kind of pissed I let them do this procedure, because I hadn't realized what it entailed. Apparently, a throttle body cleaning is a big part of the labor that they charge you for. They knew I had already done this. So I was wondering WTF they did do for $240 (+$170 for the diagnostic..so $411 I had to put on my CC, which is nearly maxxed out!). Beyond cleaning the TB, all that this procedure has left to do, is an intake flush, which is a bottle of solvent you can buy at NAPA for like, $30-40, as well as some fuel injector cleaner. The latter is even cheaper, AND I had already tried fuel additives, to no avail. Just talking about it now, kind of pisses me off.
In any case, there has been a lot of back and forth as to whether I should have allowed them to also adjust my valves. Of all of the folks here (as well as friends) who even know what that entails, about half of them seem to think it would have been the right thing to do, to allow them to complete the procedure. The logic being, the valve lashing (spacing) between the rocker arms and the top of valve stem. If the gaps grow too large, or get too tight, it will screw with the engine timing causing it to fire incorrectly, which can introduce a rough idle. It seems that this also usually causes poor fuel efficiency as well as loss of engine power. So I can understand why people would suggest it. However, I am starting to lean more towards the camp that feels that this a) isn't likely causing my car's symptoms specifically, and b) that at as low of mileage as my car has, it is pretty unlikely that these valve adjustments would be super necessary at this juncture. After speaking to a Honda certified mechanic over the phone, he said that it is usually not recommended to make any adjustments to the valves, unless there is an obvious issue there. And, that doing so can possibly make things worse. That being said, I decided to tackle the project myself anyway...if nothing else, I wanted to see if the mechanic who had my car was jerking me around when he was telling me how bad they were. It seemed like it wasn't TOO difficult a task, with a few inexpensive tools such as some feelers from Amazon , a little liquid gasket (recommended for tightening up the space where there are a couple of sharp corners), and something to pinch off the coolant hoses..as well as this handy video I found on YouTube ... So, the next thing I did was to...
5th - ... Adjust the Valve Lashes: it took me a couple of tries to get it right. The first time it got dark, so I had to frantically put my car back together without checking all of the lashes as well as I would like. I took another crack at it today, since it was Saturday, and nice outside. This time, I was a lot more meticulous with my measurements. I double/triple checked all of the lashes with feelers that I had added some tape to the handles of, since they were really slippery last time (all the engine oil floating around in the crankcase). I definitely feel like my engine sounded nice and smooth when idling in park. But I am going to have to drive it around a bit to see if, after warming up, it goes back to acting like it will stall at stop lights/signs. I feel nearly positive that it will.
The car goes into the dealership on Tuesday, where they will perform another diagnostic to see if the fuel injectors are bad. Since these are knownto go bad, and this causes my exact symptoms, I am almost positive they are going to be bad. I will be amazed if it is anything else. I will definitely wrap this thread up as soon as I find the solution. But I would seriously recommend anyone with engine idling issues, take their car to a dealership (or licensed/registered Honda mechanic...one who can fulfill their warranties) FIRST! If someone is going to charge you $170 for a diagnostic anyway, then let the dealership do it (in the event that your issue is the same as mine). Not only will they replace the fuel injectors (and maybe the ignition coils) for free. But they will not charge you for the diagnostic if this (these) are the issue. (I mention the coils because I found some information about a safety recall on these in some of the Fits, with a particular set of VINs. You can actually do a google search, enter your VIN, and it will tell you if your car qualifies for a free replacement.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 31
From: Portland, OR USA
Getting robbed now by the StealerShip?
So, after everything I have been through, I had finally decided to take my car into the dealership. I was feeling extremely confident that my issue has been the fuel injectors, which are known to go bad. I figured, I would risk the $170 diagnostic, since it will be waived once they see that the injectors are bad. After having it all day, they get back to me with a laundry list of maintenance, but no injector replacement. The things the have suggested, I do not know my car needs, nor would it FIX the problem.
They want to do an intake cleaning, which I (mistakenly, I guess) thought I had done at the other shop. When I called, the service advisor told me that what they were suggesting was actually different because they "had to take off the whole exhaust". So I'm wondering WTF is going on. What does my exhaust have to do with my car nearly stalling? Then I realize she means they want to take off and clean the intake valve..ports? The lady said, the mechanic told her that there is (or is "likely" a lot of carbon build up, and they need to open the engine to do the work. They are going to charge me $630 to do this, which they said the HAVE TO do, before they can check the fuel injectors. So, I guess Honda is making owners have this service done in order to rule out carbon buildup as the culprit, before they will (apparently) okay the injector replacements under warranty.
What I want to know is; Is this actually likely to fix an issue like mine (where the car is bucking at stoplights as if it is about to stall and comp showing "misfire" codes), or is this just a "nice to have" but won't actually solve my issue. Would a 2015 Honda Fit NEED this kind of maintenance done at 66kmi?
It very much feels like I am getting jerked around all over again. The last shop couldn't figure out what was wrong, so they wanted to charge me hundreds of dollars to do the induction cleaning (which they did) and a valve adjustment (which I did), to "fix" my car. Neither worked. Now the dealership, it seems, wants to try and squeeze some more money out of me, when they likely know the injectors are bad, because Honda doesn't want to have to cough up the replacement parts and labor without "making sure" its not carbon buildup causing the problem first. They also said, without specific codes (I still have no check engine light) there is no way to know whether it IS carbon buildup, or the injectors. And Honda won't "okay" the replacement unless they at least try the intake manifold cleanup.
The service advisor herself basically said, "you and I are both on the same page, suspecting the injectors. I will see if there is any way we can bypass the intake valve cleaning...".
UGH! I also had them look at my transmission, since its still under the stupid $4000 "powertrain warranty" I idiotically bought. The tranny often lags for a second or two when coming out of reverse, into drive. I have brought this up in the past. All they did was a transmission flush. The problem persisted. They want to do another one now. I have about $!400 worth of crap that I wasn't expecting. None of which do I think will help. Some of which I could do myself (they want to charge me $69 to change my cabin air filter, which they said was "very dirty"....I changed it a little over a year ago, for $15 and about 5min of my time. And a few months later I went in for an oil change, and they said the same thing!!!!). bastards!
They want to do an intake cleaning, which I (mistakenly, I guess) thought I had done at the other shop. When I called, the service advisor told me that what they were suggesting was actually different because they "had to take off the whole exhaust". So I'm wondering WTF is going on. What does my exhaust have to do with my car nearly stalling? Then I realize she means they want to take off and clean the intake valve..ports? The lady said, the mechanic told her that there is (or is "likely" a lot of carbon build up, and they need to open the engine to do the work. They are going to charge me $630 to do this, which they said the HAVE TO do, before they can check the fuel injectors. So, I guess Honda is making owners have this service done in order to rule out carbon buildup as the culprit, before they will (apparently) okay the injector replacements under warranty.
What I want to know is; Is this actually likely to fix an issue like mine (where the car is bucking at stoplights as if it is about to stall and comp showing "misfire" codes), or is this just a "nice to have" but won't actually solve my issue. Would a 2015 Honda Fit NEED this kind of maintenance done at 66kmi?
It very much feels like I am getting jerked around all over again. The last shop couldn't figure out what was wrong, so they wanted to charge me hundreds of dollars to do the induction cleaning (which they did) and a valve adjustment (which I did), to "fix" my car. Neither worked. Now the dealership, it seems, wants to try and squeeze some more money out of me, when they likely know the injectors are bad, because Honda doesn't want to have to cough up the replacement parts and labor without "making sure" its not carbon buildup causing the problem first. They also said, without specific codes (I still have no check engine light) there is no way to know whether it IS carbon buildup, or the injectors. And Honda won't "okay" the replacement unless they at least try the intake manifold cleanup.
The service advisor herself basically said, "you and I are both on the same page, suspecting the injectors. I will see if there is any way we can bypass the intake valve cleaning...".
UGH! I also had them look at my transmission, since its still under the stupid $4000 "powertrain warranty" I idiotically bought. The tranny often lags for a second or two when coming out of reverse, into drive. I have brought this up in the past. All they did was a transmission flush. The problem persisted. They want to do another one now. I have about $!400 worth of crap that I wasn't expecting. None of which do I think will help. Some of which I could do myself (they want to charge me $69 to change my cabin air filter, which they said was "very dirty"....I changed it a little over a year ago, for $15 and about 5min of my time. And a few months later I went in for an oil change, and they said the same thing!!!!). bastards!
Member
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 695
From: Vancouver
Bottom line is...get the intake valves cleaned by Honda, then let them determine if it needs new injectors.
No other logic or reasoning will fix your issue. Especially since they are the ones who you have the powertrain warranty with.
Honestly, you should have done this from the beginning, but in your attempt to save a few bucks by going with a cheaper alternative, actually ended up costing you more.
Please keep this in mind for this or any other future vehicles you have that are under warranty.
No other logic or reasoning will fix your issue. Especially since they are the ones who you have the powertrain warranty with.
Honestly, you should have done this from the beginning, but in your attempt to save a few bucks by going with a cheaper alternative, actually ended up costing you more.
Please keep this in mind for this or any other future vehicles you have that are under warranty.
New Member
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 1
From: San Carlos, CA
Electrical in nature?
I’m going to suggest something here. This is pure conjecture, based solely on my experiences troubleshooting a sometimes neglected 1989 Ford SHO. Before you dismiss this out of hand, consider that this is a car with a Japanese top end, which was also heavily reliant on what are now modern electronics, in an era before they were commonplace.
If it were me, I would check and clean all my ground points, starting with under the hood. Especially those which are related to the ignition system. I would make sure each one is clean and tight. I have a feeling that your issue is related to this - the symptoms are uncannily similar to what I was experiencing with my SHO, and I didn’t figure it out until I had already replaced the IAC, throttle position sensor, coil pack, battery cables, and a half dozen other sensors.
One other point is that if you are running HID lights on your Fit, it is important to run a relay harness and also to disable the DRL by pulling the fuse - if memory serves, failure to use a relay harness can result in symptoms similar to yours, although I imagine you have driven it with the headlights totally off during the time you have been experiencing symptoms.
Have you erased the Keep-Alive memory (pull the battery negative for a while) to reset the computer? During the first minute or two after the reset, I let the car idle, remembering to engage all the accessories (lights, blower motor, highbeams, fogs if applicable, foot on brake, turn wheel 1/4 turn each way). This ensures that the computer brain understands what the voltages might be from the different sensors under extreme power load.
I hope you figure out what it is that is causing this problem. Don’t give up!
If it were me, I would check and clean all my ground points, starting with under the hood. Especially those which are related to the ignition system. I would make sure each one is clean and tight. I have a feeling that your issue is related to this - the symptoms are uncannily similar to what I was experiencing with my SHO, and I didn’t figure it out until I had already replaced the IAC, throttle position sensor, coil pack, battery cables, and a half dozen other sensors.
One other point is that if you are running HID lights on your Fit, it is important to run a relay harness and also to disable the DRL by pulling the fuse - if memory serves, failure to use a relay harness can result in symptoms similar to yours, although I imagine you have driven it with the headlights totally off during the time you have been experiencing symptoms.
Have you erased the Keep-Alive memory (pull the battery negative for a while) to reset the computer? During the first minute or two after the reset, I let the car idle, remembering to engage all the accessories (lights, blower motor, highbeams, fogs if applicable, foot on brake, turn wheel 1/4 turn each way). This ensures that the computer brain understands what the voltages might be from the different sensors under extreme power load.
I hope you figure out what it is that is causing this problem. Don’t give up!
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 31
From: Portland, OR USA
I’m going to suggest something here. This is pure conjecture, based solely on my experiences troubleshooting a sometimes neglected 1989 Ford SHO. Before you dismiss this out of hand, consider that this is a car with a Japanese top end, which was also heavily reliant on what are now modern electronics, in an era before they were commonplace.
If it were me, I would check and clean all my ground points, starting with under the hood. Especially those which are related to the ignition system. I would make sure each one is clean and tight. I have a feeling that your issue is related to this - the symptoms are uncannily similar to what I was experiencing with my SHO, and I didn’t figure it out until I had already replaced the IAC, throttle position sensor, coil pack, battery cables, and a half dozen other sensors.
One other point is that if you are running HID lights on your Fit, it is important to run a relay harness and also to disable the DRL by pulling the fuse - if memory serves, failure to use a relay harness can result in symptoms similar to yours, although I imagine you have driven it with the headlights totally off during the time you have been experiencing symptoms.
Have you erased the Keep-Alive memory (pull the battery negative for a while) to reset the computer? During the first minute or two after the reset, I let the car idle, remembering to engage all the accessories (lights, blower motor, highbeams, fogs if applicable, foot on brake, turn wheel 1/4 turn each way). This ensures that the computer brain understands what the voltages might be from the different sensors under extreme power load.
I hope you figure out what it is that is causing this problem. Don’t give up!
If it were me, I would check and clean all my ground points, starting with under the hood. Especially those which are related to the ignition system. I would make sure each one is clean and tight. I have a feeling that your issue is related to this - the symptoms are uncannily similar to what I was experiencing with my SHO, and I didn’t figure it out until I had already replaced the IAC, throttle position sensor, coil pack, battery cables, and a half dozen other sensors.
One other point is that if you are running HID lights on your Fit, it is important to run a relay harness and also to disable the DRL by pulling the fuse - if memory serves, failure to use a relay harness can result in symptoms similar to yours, although I imagine you have driven it with the headlights totally off during the time you have been experiencing symptoms.
Have you erased the Keep-Alive memory (pull the battery negative for a while) to reset the computer? During the first minute or two after the reset, I let the car idle, remembering to engage all the accessories (lights, blower motor, highbeams, fogs if applicable, foot on brake, turn wheel 1/4 turn each way). This ensures that the computer brain understands what the voltages might be from the different sensors under extreme power load.
I hope you figure out what it is that is causing this problem. Don’t give up!
New Member
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 8
From: Gonzales, La
Fuel injectors
So it sounds like they haven't changed your fuel injectors. My car runs like new after changing them. The mechanic did have to make a few adjustments after they were installed. Not sure what he did. He hooked it up to his computer and rode around the block with me. Took it back and made some kind of adjustment and it has been running great ever since. I guess if I hadn't had the extended warranty that I purchased I would gave gotten the same runaround. My check engine light never came on. It was just idling rough and actually died at a red Iight once and I had enough. I really hate dealerships. I always feel like I'm getting screwed over. Mine had 168,000 miles on it. I do food delivery so my poor car takes a lot of abuse. Now my tailgate won't open. I actually went to the dealership today. I got so aggravated I just told them I'd think about it and come back later. Good Luck. I hope you can get yours running smoothly.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 31
From: Portland, OR USA
So it sounds like they haven't changed your fuel injectors. My car runs like new after changing them. The mechanic did have to make a few adjustments after they were installed. Not sure what he did. He hooked it up to his computer and rode around the block with me. Took it back and made some kind of adjustment and it has been running great ever since. I guess if I hadn't had the extended warranty that I purchased I would gave gotten the same runaround. My check engine light never came on. It was just idling rough and actually died at a red Iight once and I had enough. I really hate dealerships. I always feel like I'm getting screwed over. Mine had 168,000 miles on it. I do food delivery so my poor car takes a lot of abuse. Now my tailgate won't open. I actually went to the dealership today. I got so aggravated I just told them I'd think about it and come back later. Good Luck. I hope you can get yours running smoothly.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 31
From: Portland, OR USA
EDIT: After looking around a bit more, I guess the leaking head gasket could, in fact, cause a single cylinder to misfire. I guess if that cylinder is losing compression due to a leak, it could cause this issue. I am still shocked and kind of pissed that my car, with relatively low mileage, would have a blown gasket. I am also kind of pissed that I was kind of duped (apparently) with the warranty I purchased (my fault for not double checking the paperwork to see if what he was telling me was what I was signing up for).
Last edited by Seth J Chatfield; Jun 21, 2022 at 12:09 AM.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 31
From: Portland, OR USA
I’m going to suggest something here. This is pure conjecture, based solely on my experiences troubleshooting a sometimes neglected 1989 Ford SHO. Before you dismiss this out of hand, consider that this is a car with a Japanese top end, which was also heavily reliant on what are now modern electronics, in an era before they were commonplace.
If it were me, I would check and clean all my ground points, starting with under the hood. Especially those which are related to the ignition system. I would make sure each one is clean and tight. I have a feeling that your issue is related to this - the symptoms are uncannily similar to what I was experiencing with my SHO, and I didn’t figure it out until I had already replaced the IAC, throttle position sensor, coil pack, battery cables, and a half dozen other sensors.
One other point is that if you are running HID lights on your Fit, it is important to run a relay harness and also to disable the DRL by pulling the fuse - if memory serves, failure to use a relay harness can result in symptoms similar to yours, although I imagine you have driven it with the headlights totally off during the time you have been experiencing symptoms.
Have you erased the Keep-Alive memory (pull the battery negative for a while) to reset the computer? During the first minute or two after the reset, I let the car idle, remembering to engage all the accessories (lights, blower motor, highbeams, fogs if applicable, foot on brake, turn wheel 1/4 turn each way). This ensures that the computer brain understands what the voltages might be from the different sensors under extreme power load.
I hope you figure out what it is that is causing this problem. Don’t give up!
If it were me, I would check and clean all my ground points, starting with under the hood. Especially those which are related to the ignition system. I would make sure each one is clean and tight. I have a feeling that your issue is related to this - the symptoms are uncannily similar to what I was experiencing with my SHO, and I didn’t figure it out until I had already replaced the IAC, throttle position sensor, coil pack, battery cables, and a half dozen other sensors.
One other point is that if you are running HID lights on your Fit, it is important to run a relay harness and also to disable the DRL by pulling the fuse - if memory serves, failure to use a relay harness can result in symptoms similar to yours, although I imagine you have driven it with the headlights totally off during the time you have been experiencing symptoms.
Have you erased the Keep-Alive memory (pull the battery negative for a while) to reset the computer? During the first minute or two after the reset, I let the car idle, remembering to engage all the accessories (lights, blower motor, highbeams, fogs if applicable, foot on brake, turn wheel 1/4 turn each way). This ensures that the computer brain understands what the voltages might be from the different sensors under extreme power load.
I hope you figure out what it is that is causing this problem. Don’t give up!
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 31
From: Portland, OR USA
So, I want to (hopefully) put an end to this thread. It turns out (the dealership is quite confident) that the head gasket somehow blew, and was causing compression loss in the cylinder 1. They were kind enough to cover the cost (only having charged me $815 so far for diagnostics and port cleaning) of the gasket replacement. This was going to cost me $3300, since I was apparently sold a different warranty that I thought. I was under the impression I was getting a 100k mi / 7yr powertrain warranty. Unfortunately, it was what is called a "WRAP" plan, that was dated back to the original purchase date (and buyer), and would have expired in a few days from now. I DID have a powertrain warranty (unbeknownst to me) that was good for 5yr/60k mi, which had barely just expired. The whole thing has been a nightmare. I am just happy that it will soon be over with and I won't be on the hook for the $3300 gasket replacement...and pray that it actually works. So far, they have: replaced the fuel injectors, spark plugs, and ignition coil (cylinder 1), done a manual cleaning of the valve intake/exhaust ports, and performed numerous tests. Personally, I had done a valve lash adjustment, replaced the spark plugs (which cheap ones just for diagnostic purposes), had the induction system flushed, manually cleaned the throttle body, and replaced the intake air filter. SO this has been QUITE the process.
Thank you for everyone who tried to help and all of your suggestions! Unless I report back here again, it can be assumed that the gasket was in fact the issue. I would have never thought a car with 68k mi would have an issue with one, or that it could be blown without the car ever overheating. I guess you learn something new every day! Sometimes, the hard way.
Thank you for everyone who tried to help and all of your suggestions! Unless I report back here again, it can be assumed that the gasket was in fact the issue. I would have never thought a car with 68k mi would have an issue with one, or that it could be blown without the car ever overheating. I guess you learn something new every day! Sometimes, the hard way.
Decided to try and tidy this post up to make things easier for others.
So, I have been having this issue where my 2015 Fit (Ex-L fwiw) has been seemingly, idling rough. It was a little "jumpy" feeling at stop lights, which progressively has been getting worse. It seemed to happen when the car had warmed up (less noticeable or at all when the car had just been started). Putting it in park when stopped, seemed to make the bucking less noticeable. I have not noticed anything odd when moving (no noticeable loss of power, hesitation, or rough running while driving). If I had to sit at a light for more than a few seconds, it began feeling like my car would stall if I didn't put my car into park,and push the gas pedal down. I couldn't see the RPM needle going down too low (normally idling around 600-800 rpms), but it would dip a tad, then bounce back up. So, I assumed the issue I had was a "low" or "rough" idle.
I have talked to loads of folks and done lots of searches online. And I have gotten dozens of suggestions, some conflicting with others. This is what I had tried, and the results:
1st -Using Fuel Injector Cleaner: I had actually gone through a few bottles of this stuff. It didn't seem to make much (if any) of an impact.
2nd - Replacing the air filter: Probably something you should do, especially if it is really dirty. A new one can be purchased for as little as $15, and it takes all of two minutes, and zero tools to replace. This is something I think you should never pay a mechanic for, because even an idiot (like me) can do it themselves. This did NOT fix my issue.
3rd -Replacing the spark plugs: done, but probably didn't need it at 68k anyway. Did not help.
4th -Cleaning the throttle body: this is the most suggested solution to a rough idle like mine. I was very intimidated by taking it off, initially. But with a socket set, some throttle body cleaner, and a youtube video, I think anyone can try this. All you gotta do is take off the airbox/intake hose. There are a few wires and hoses to unhook. The picture below shows the part I couldn't figure out how to remove. Turns out, the airbox has two bolts on either side of the engine air filter box. Once those are removed, and all the connecting wires/hoses are unhooked, the intake hose and airbox pop right off. Then all I had to do was unscrew the 4 bolts to get the TB out. I sprayed it and scrubbed it out with a rag. Unfortunately, while it seemed to have fixed the problem once starting the car back up (and no rough idle), as soon as I started driving home, and stopped at a light, the bucking came back. (I want to note that when I was trying to rev the engine after putting everything back together, I could not hold the RPMs at or above 3000 RPMs. After a minute or two, it would abruptly drop back down to sub 1000RPMs, even when I hadn't let off the accelerator!)
I finally decided to take it to a shop after the TB cleaning didn't solve my issue. They charged me $170 for a diagnostic. There was no check engine light, and the computer wasn't throwing any codes (although, the work order says that the computer was showing misfires on all of the cylinders, apparently). I guess they proceeded with a visual inspection, where they supposedly used a camera and light inside the engine and found: carbon buildup in the fuel induction system, and they could see ample enough light coming through the valve lashes, that they felt the valves needed to be adjusted. They claimed these issues were bad enough that I "shouldn't drive" the car in this condition. But they also said, while these things "needed to be done", and would "likely fix" my issue, they could not guarantee that it would. My friend told me to go get my car from the shop. As an ex shop owner and mechanic, he said you should never let a shop do work on your car, when they don't feel confident it will fix the problem I brought it there for. And he also didn't seem convinced that my car needed any of this stuff done, when I had only 67k mi on it....at least that it shouldn't be as bad as they claimed. By the time I got a hold of the shop, they had already done the induction flush, but hadn't started on the valve adjustment. So the next thing we tried was...
5th - Induction System Flush: This seemed to make my car appear to have been "fixed". It definitely didn't appear to be idling rough (or noticeably so). But, after a couple of days, the rough idle came back. I am actually kind of pissed I let them do this procedure, because I hadn't realized what it entailed. Apparently, a throttle body cleaning is a big part of the labor that they charge you for. They knew I had already done this. So I was wondering WTF they did do for $240 (+$170 for the diagnostic..so $411 I had to put on my CC, which is nearly maxxed out!). Beyond cleaning the TB, all that this procedure has left to do, is an intake flush, which is a bottle of solvent you can buy at NAPA for like, $30-40, as well as some fuel injector cleaner. The latter is even cheaper, AND I had already tried fuel additives, to no avail. Just talking about it now, kind of pisses me off.
In any case, there has been a lot of back and forth as to whether I should have allowed them to also adjust my valves. Of all of the folks here (as well as friends) who even know what that entails, about half of them seem to think it would have been the right thing to do, to allow them to complete the procedure. The logic being, the valve lashing (spacing) between the rocker arms and the top of valve stem. If the gaps grow too large, or get too tight, it will screw with the engine timing causing it to fire incorrectly, which can introduce a rough idle. It seems that this also usually causes poor fuel efficiency as well as loss of engine power. So I can understand why people would suggest it. However, I am starting to lean more towards the camp that feels that this a) isn't likely causing my car's symptoms specifically, and b) that at as low of mileage as my car has, it is pretty unlikely that these valve adjustments would be super necessary at this juncture. After speaking to a Honda certified mechanic over the phone, he said that it is usually not recommended to make any adjustments to the valves, unless there is an obvious issue there. And, that doing so can possibly make things worse. That being said, I decided to tackle the project myself anyway...if nothing else, I wanted to see if the mechanic who had my car was jerking me around when he was telling me how bad they were. It seemed like it wasn't TOO difficult a task, with a few inexpensive tools such as some feelers from Amazon , a little liquid gasket (recommended for tightening up the space where there are a couple of sharp corners), and something to pinch off the coolant hoses..as well as this handy video I found on YouTube ... So, the next thing I did was to...
5th - ... Adjust the Valve Lashes: it took me a couple of tries to get it right. The first time it got dark, so I had to frantically put my car back together without checking all of the lashes as well as I would like. I took another crack at it today, since it was Saturday, and nice outside. This time, I was a lot more meticulous with my measurements. I double/triple checked all of the lashes with feelers that I had added some tape to the handles of, since they were really slippery last time (all the engine oil floating around in the crankcase). I definitely feel like my engine sounded nice and smooth when idling in park. But I am going to have to drive it around a bit to see if, after warming up, it goes back to acting like it will stall at stop lights/signs. I feel nearly positive that it will.
So, I have been having this issue where my 2015 Fit (Ex-L fwiw) has been seemingly, idling rough. It was a little "jumpy" feeling at stop lights, which progressively has been getting worse. It seemed to happen when the car had warmed up (less noticeable or at all when the car had just been started). Putting it in park when stopped, seemed to make the bucking less noticeable. I have not noticed anything odd when moving (no noticeable loss of power, hesitation, or rough running while driving). If I had to sit at a light for more than a few seconds, it began feeling like my car would stall if I didn't put my car into park,and push the gas pedal down. I couldn't see the RPM needle going down too low (normally idling around 600-800 rpms), but it would dip a tad, then bounce back up. So, I assumed the issue I had was a "low" or "rough" idle.
I have talked to loads of folks and done lots of searches online. And I have gotten dozens of suggestions, some conflicting with others. This is what I had tried, and the results:
1st -Using Fuel Injector Cleaner: I had actually gone through a few bottles of this stuff. It didn't seem to make much (if any) of an impact.
2nd - Replacing the air filter: Probably something you should do, especially if it is really dirty. A new one can be purchased for as little as $15, and it takes all of two minutes, and zero tools to replace. This is something I think you should never pay a mechanic for, because even an idiot (like me) can do it themselves. This did NOT fix my issue.
3rd -Replacing the spark plugs: done, but probably didn't need it at 68k anyway. Did not help.
4th -Cleaning the throttle body: this is the most suggested solution to a rough idle like mine. I was very intimidated by taking it off, initially. But with a socket set, some throttle body cleaner, and a youtube video, I think anyone can try this. All you gotta do is take off the airbox/intake hose. There are a few wires and hoses to unhook. The picture below shows the part I couldn't figure out how to remove. Turns out, the airbox has two bolts on either side of the engine air filter box. Once those are removed, and all the connecting wires/hoses are unhooked, the intake hose and airbox pop right off. Then all I had to do was unscrew the 4 bolts to get the TB out. I sprayed it and scrubbed it out with a rag. Unfortunately, while it seemed to have fixed the problem once starting the car back up (and no rough idle), as soon as I started driving home, and stopped at a light, the bucking came back. (I want to note that when I was trying to rev the engine after putting everything back together, I could not hold the RPMs at or above 3000 RPMs. After a minute or two, it would abruptly drop back down to sub 1000RPMs, even when I hadn't let off the accelerator!)
I finally decided to take it to a shop after the TB cleaning didn't solve my issue. They charged me $170 for a diagnostic. There was no check engine light, and the computer wasn't throwing any codes (although, the work order says that the computer was showing misfires on all of the cylinders, apparently). I guess they proceeded with a visual inspection, where they supposedly used a camera and light inside the engine and found: carbon buildup in the fuel induction system, and they could see ample enough light coming through the valve lashes, that they felt the valves needed to be adjusted. They claimed these issues were bad enough that I "shouldn't drive" the car in this condition. But they also said, while these things "needed to be done", and would "likely fix" my issue, they could not guarantee that it would. My friend told me to go get my car from the shop. As an ex shop owner and mechanic, he said you should never let a shop do work on your car, when they don't feel confident it will fix the problem I brought it there for. And he also didn't seem convinced that my car needed any of this stuff done, when I had only 67k mi on it....at least that it shouldn't be as bad as they claimed. By the time I got a hold of the shop, they had already done the induction flush, but hadn't started on the valve adjustment. So the next thing we tried was...
5th - Induction System Flush: This seemed to make my car appear to have been "fixed". It definitely didn't appear to be idling rough (or noticeably so). But, after a couple of days, the rough idle came back. I am actually kind of pissed I let them do this procedure, because I hadn't realized what it entailed. Apparently, a throttle body cleaning is a big part of the labor that they charge you for. They knew I had already done this. So I was wondering WTF they did do for $240 (+$170 for the diagnostic..so $411 I had to put on my CC, which is nearly maxxed out!). Beyond cleaning the TB, all that this procedure has left to do, is an intake flush, which is a bottle of solvent you can buy at NAPA for like, $30-40, as well as some fuel injector cleaner. The latter is even cheaper, AND I had already tried fuel additives, to no avail. Just talking about it now, kind of pisses me off.
In any case, there has been a lot of back and forth as to whether I should have allowed them to also adjust my valves. Of all of the folks here (as well as friends) who even know what that entails, about half of them seem to think it would have been the right thing to do, to allow them to complete the procedure. The logic being, the valve lashing (spacing) between the rocker arms and the top of valve stem. If the gaps grow too large, or get too tight, it will screw with the engine timing causing it to fire incorrectly, which can introduce a rough idle. It seems that this also usually causes poor fuel efficiency as well as loss of engine power. So I can understand why people would suggest it. However, I am starting to lean more towards the camp that feels that this a) isn't likely causing my car's symptoms specifically, and b) that at as low of mileage as my car has, it is pretty unlikely that these valve adjustments would be super necessary at this juncture. After speaking to a Honda certified mechanic over the phone, he said that it is usually not recommended to make any adjustments to the valves, unless there is an obvious issue there. And, that doing so can possibly make things worse. That being said, I decided to tackle the project myself anyway...if nothing else, I wanted to see if the mechanic who had my car was jerking me around when he was telling me how bad they were. It seemed like it wasn't TOO difficult a task, with a few inexpensive tools such as some feelers from Amazon , a little liquid gasket (recommended for tightening up the space where there are a couple of sharp corners), and something to pinch off the coolant hoses..as well as this handy video I found on YouTube ... So, the next thing I did was to...
5th - ... Adjust the Valve Lashes: it took me a couple of tries to get it right. The first time it got dark, so I had to frantically put my car back together without checking all of the lashes as well as I would like. I took another crack at it today, since it was Saturday, and nice outside. This time, I was a lot more meticulous with my measurements. I double/triple checked all of the lashes with feelers that I had added some tape to the handles of, since they were really slippery last time (all the engine oil floating around in the crankcase). I definitely feel like my engine sounded nice and smooth when idling in park. But I am going to have to drive it around a bit to see if, after warming up, it goes back to acting like it will stall at stop lights/signs. I feel nearly positive that it will.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 31
From: Portland, OR USA
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 31
From: Portland, OR USA
Well... that didn't work!
Doubt anyone is still listening, but ....yeah. Two months after the dealership took my Fit in for the misfiring. They have changed the spark plugs, done a manual cleaning of the intake/exhaust ports, cleaned the entire induction system, replaced the fuel injectors....and finally decided that it was a blown head gasket causing the misfire (apparently there was compression leaking in cylinder 1). I have had the car back for about a week. When I picked it up, I noticed it sounded louder, like there was an exhaust leak (kind of a low putting sound). I actually tried bringing it back, but they said the sound was normal for a Fir and maybe o was just accustomed to the brand new loaner car I had been borrowing...fair enough. But a week later, I'm sitting at a stop light, and the bucking starts again, like the car is going to stall out. WTF???
I contacted the service advisor and haven't heard back yet (it's the weekend). One thing that feels suspect is that, right before I went to go get it, they had test driven it and said the tech needed to do a "retorque" (on what, I don't know). She said he could hear an exhaust leak and something just needed to be retightened. I don't know how you could screw up a head torque, if you follow the bolt pattern and use the correct setting. But they said he'd done it, and a "master" tech even drove it home (some ways away) to make sure it was running properly. It did run (seemingly) fine for the first few days...besides the noise I'd noticed (which, again, I'd written off as being unaccustomed to my older car, after driving a new one). They actually hooked me up, covering the cost of the head gasket replacement (estimated at $3300) and even refunded me for the previous work they'd done. So I feel bad bringing it back, nevermind the fact that I'd be without a car).. what is happening??
I contacted the service advisor and haven't heard back yet (it's the weekend). One thing that feels suspect is that, right before I went to go get it, they had test driven it and said the tech needed to do a "retorque" (on what, I don't know). She said he could hear an exhaust leak and something just needed to be retightened. I don't know how you could screw up a head torque, if you follow the bolt pattern and use the correct setting. But they said he'd done it, and a "master" tech even drove it home (some ways away) to make sure it was running properly. It did run (seemingly) fine for the first few days...besides the noise I'd noticed (which, again, I'd written off as being unaccustomed to my older car, after driving a new one). They actually hooked me up, covering the cost of the head gasket replacement (estimated at $3300) and even refunded me for the previous work they'd done. So I feel bad bringing it back, nevermind the fact that I'd be without a car).. what is happening??
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Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 31
From: Portland, OR USA
I am thankful for everything they have done. I know I have been fortunate, considering my warranty apparently didn't cover this work. Still bummed a car with relatively low mileage would be having problems this serious, which is maybe why they thought to extend some extra courtesy. I do wonder what was happening with the tech though. Before they would let me come and pick it up, the service advisor said the tech needed to retorque some bolt (didn't specify which part of the engine) due to an obvious (audible) exhaust leak? I guess I am not sure how one could mis-torque bolts to the point where there was a noticeable leak, if they followed the bolt pattern and set the wrench to the correct force. I am a little worried they perhaps threw it back together in a bit of a hurry, and something maybe wasn't attached correctly. I checked hoses and cables and it looks good. The engine is nice and clean. I am just worried that the head may be warped. But, I would think they might have noticed that when it went to the machinist...?
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Andre Lee
1st Generation (GD 01-08)
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Oct 22, 2012 04:00 PM
