@ROTTBOY, the ratios have been published. Tires + gears determine the engine rpm. Unless Honda just regeared them for a June launch.

 

Trolling???? YEOuCH!!! This is a healthy debate on a friendly forum. If you are thinking again for me. Thanks but no thanks.

My intention has been clear from the beginning. Having figures, measurements, ratios etc... can compute an outcome but until an actual test is done, it remains unproven.

The statement that the GK 6th. will have exactly the same engine rpm as the GE 5th at highway speed is PRE-MATURE. Never, in any of my previous posts, said it was wrong. Neverthless, am more than willing provide the real-world facts, once I actually drive it.

With that in mind, why not tell me what your GE's actual engine rpm is at 65mph and when I get the chance to do my "thing" will post back with the results as well as pics of the tach/speedo to back it up.

 

Dude, it's just math. The ratio is the amount of times the wheels spin compared to the crank rotating, that's how the ratio is calculated.

Aside from the 6th gear ratio which is a fact for everyone except Rottboy, I don't see what the problem is with issueing ones opinion. This is a forum after all isn't it? If everybody has to just jump on the bandwagon and say that the Fit is great, it's not much of a discussion.

Jeez, people are entitled to their opinion, even without having test driven a car. By the way EV looks nothing like the GK unless they decide to use the same chassi. The EV looks almost exactly like a GE and I think it's only available in blue (which is not great because I don't like electric blue as a car color). Anyway, I plan on driving my GD for many yeArs until I switch to an electric.

 

Dude, math is totally fine. That goes for opinions too.

Not a proven fact for me is correct. That's when comparing 5th and 6th on the engine rpm between GE and GK, respectively. Until someone (or I) has test driven a GK M/T and posts that both will run at exactly the same rpm or worse or better, there is no reason to make any definitive conclusions.

Read my posts well. Never did I infer that opinions are not welcome. Clearly my point is that only a test drive will give finality to this rpm debate. If people don't want to do this exercise, opinion galore always welcome, however, to state its factually relevant - NOT YET!!!!

Keeping the GD for many more years - good choice - Its a FIT!!!!!!

 

Clearly you don't have a very firm grasp of how an engine works. Can't argue with someone that doesn't want to understand the correlation between engine RPMs, wheel rotations and speed. No test drive will determine that. It's a set, finite mathematical ratio.

Rather than going on uselessly, why don't you ask Japan tragic since I think he has a 6MT? What's a good baseline speed to compare ? His Fit is probably in KM on the dial but I suspect every 20 mph is indicated so maybe 60mph?

 

I guess I'll chime in about this...

Rottboy, they're right about RPM vs speed. From the engine, through the crank, transmission gears and final drive into the wheels, they all have a relative ratio.

So, if the gear ratio for 6th in the GK is the same as the GE/GDs 5th, along with the final dive and tire diameter, then the RPM will be the same for a given speed. It's non-speculative math (there's no guessing, the formula is set).

What I think needs the test drive, isn't WHAT RPM it'll be at, but HOW it affects you in the cabin.

Is the cabin better insulated to dampen out the "drone"? Do the vibrations, if any, transfer to the steering wheel and seats... and if so, how much of it do you feel? Stuff like that.

Maybe the engine simply sounds different at the same RPM... who knows.

 

.....clearly? Maybe true. The grasp could be weak. But what is wrong with doing the test drive??? Do you mean you can have your opinions and I can't???
.....argue? No arguement on paper results. Fully accept those. All I ask is for real-world confirmation. That's what a test drive will do.
.....going on uselessly. Maybe for you. In my case, its a healthy debate providing me with continuing education as well as entertaining FF readers.
.....JapanT M/T? You need to read his posts. He has an A/T. His GK is an RS version. We won't get that here. Lets compare apples to apples. Get the facts straight!!!

.......Chime in for sure.
.......Never posted that the figures are wrong.
.......there is no guessing as the formula is set and factual. Don't disagree with that either.
.......need for the test drive? Certainly, too confirm what the number pushing above indicates. Has anyone above done it? No. The actual engine rpm may be exactly equal (or more, or less) but until its performed, who really knows??? Its the first Earth Dreams engine. Who can confirm that its reaction exactly duplicates the L15A7 engine?
.......cabin effect....Stuff like that......Anything that comes out better are all bonuses!!!
......who knows??? For now, no one. (except Accordguyintake - he's the only one on FF who has driven an MDM GK M/T)

So who out there has a GE M/T? Do share the exact engine RPM at 65mph in 5th and I'll gladly put it through the test in 6th once my GK arrives (many months from now). If not me, am sure someone will, and this healthy, entertaining debate will achieve finality.

Once upon a time, most of the world believed it was flat. Someone test drove a ship around and it didn't fall off. It was round all along. There was no dispute after that. That debate ended. Am just patiently waiting for my ship to arrive to do that test!!!

Am curious to find out what's the actual rpm of a Fiesta ST at 65mph in 6th gear???

 

Rottboy, you seem to be misunderstanding this. RPM at speed has nothing to do with the engine involved, its all about the gearing/final drive/tire height.

If you attached a trans with these specs to a wankel, they'd rev at the same # of RPM at a given speed.

If you attached a trans with these specs to a Jeep 4.0l I6, they'd rev at the same # of RPM at a given speed.

If you attached a trans with these specs to a Ferrari V12, they'd rev at the same # of RPM at a given speed.

If you attached a trans with these specs to a 2JZ-GTE, they'd rev at the same # of RPM at a given speed.

If you attached a trans with these specs to a Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 1.5l V6T, they'd rev at the same # of RPM at a given speed.

If you attached a trans with these specs to a B16B, they'd rev at the same # of RPM at a given speed.

If you attached a trans with these specs to a diesel 7.3l V10, they'd rev at the same # of RPM at a given speed.

(As long as the tires are the same diameter as well).

 

Um, I take it you missed my signature?

I know that at 80 mph, it's 4k RPM in 5th gear (in stock tire diameter, or in my case, matching diameter with 205/50/16 tires).

65 MPH should be 3250 RPM.

I don't know why you think the numbers will change... sure the GK's engine is an Earth Dreams engine with 130 hp. If the ratios are same, the RPM won't change, but the "load" would. Because each time the chamber combusts, GK produces slightly more power than the GE... it has an easier time pushing the piston.

However, the piston still has to travel up and down to get the crank to rotate ONCE. Each time the crank rotates, it moves the input shaft and that translate to movement of the output shaft of the transmission, by the ratio of the gear.

The output shaft goes into the differential (final drive) and eventually gets to the wheels. And of course the tires rotate and move the car along the ground.

But you must have noticed, the only thing that changed is "easier to push the piston." It didn't change any of the ratios. RPM doesn't take into account how easy or hard the engine had to work to move the piston. RPM only counts when the crank spins.

Let me put it this way... if you shut off your engine and let it roll down a hill IN GEAR. So long as the transmission ratio on the current gear (5th for GE, 6th for GK), final drive and tire diameters are the same... the engine will spin at the same RPM for a given speed... it's just the engine isn't providing the spark to ignite all that air going through it.

The only way for the GK to run at a different RPM for a given speed compared to a GE... one (or more) of those three ratios HAS TO CHANGE (and not "cancel" each other out if more than one).

So for you to argue "you should test drive it first" in regards to RPM, you HAVE to argue that those ratios are NOT what people think they are.

So, are you arguing that the ratios might not be the same?

~~~~~

not sure how much this analogy works... but think of this.

you have two people who are exactly the same height. Or at the very least, have the same length legs (joints are measurably same distance, etc), and they both bend each joint the same amount. However, one is grossly overweight while the other is at the peak of human fitness.

Would one take more steps to walk a mile than the other?

Mind you, it's not a question of who's faster or who has it easier. Only, does the number of steps differ between the two?

Do you notice that, for most human beings, one arm is, oh so slightly, stronger than the other? This actually became ridiculously obvious on my friend back in high school. Because we played volleyball and he played spiker position. His dominant arm had visibly more muscle mass than his other arm. Assuming that the joints in your arms are equal in length/positioning in left vs right... would your chest be parallel to the floor or would you end up lopsided on full extension during a push-up?

 

This is a comparison thread but not the right one, lol. Shouldn't someone just change this thread to "Fit Final Drive Ratios"? It's getting ridiculous.

 

Completely understand and agree. Never said otherwise. All I ask is to confirm it with an actual hands-on test drive. Whats the harm in that???

.....signature. Saw that, but don't want to conclude that all signatures/pictures necessarily means personal ownership. Now that you confirmed all is good.

....assume your 4k rpm at 80 mph is from your tach and speedo readings. The "should be" at 65mph, a computation? Will use 80 mph!!!

....think the numbers will change? Never said that. But until someone has tested the GK M/T 6th it remains unproven in the real world. Never mentioned ratios as an issue.

....nice analogy. You use the human body and I, the ship!!!

Ridiculous? possibly. Entertainment value - without question!!!!!!!!

UPDATE:
Found this tested article from TCroly's thread:
Review: 2015 Honda Fit | The Truth About Cars

It states: "the 6 speed’s top gear is too short for American highways, and the engine buzzed at more than 3500 RPM at a 77 MPH cruise"

Let the number experts compute. What does translate to at 80 mph??? Could it be 4,000 rpm or worse???

The end to this debate is finally within reach!!!

 

The end was never out of reach. Its been here, punching you in the face since the beginning of this thread. You just choose to ignore it.

 

punching in the face.......Wow, that's serious trolling!!! Emotional, emotional, emotional.

ignore it.....what's there to ignore. All I've done is stick to the ongoing debate. The need for a TEST DRIVE!!!

Have posted tested numbers. Till you or another "number/formula" guy makes the computations and prove that a test drive is unnecessary to conclude that engine rpm is exactly the same, the end ain't here yet!!!!

 

Goobers just pretty much confirmed what physics/science/basic math we've been repeating the whole time. Goober says his engine revs at 4k at 80mph and 3250 at 65. The tester you quote said it's at 3.5k at 77mph which is right in between Goobers' numbers. and this is coming from a *drumroll* test drive.

Honestly, it doesn't even really matter if the engine revs are up. High engine revs could have a negative impact on MPG but since the engine is more powerfull and has less load, then probably at an equal amount of revs, the MPG would be better. Also, Honda might have added extra sound deadening, thus the noise of the engine would be less apparent.

So although the engine revs might be on the high side, it's not necessarily a deal breaker. One thing I would find annoying is the need to depress the throttle more. The Fit has a very weak and unresponsive throttle from the get go so I would be annoyed to keep the pedal down. I always use cruis control but sometimes cruise makes no sense when there are many cars surrounding you. Another inconvenience is that if you let go the throttle, often the RPM and speed will drop quickly, making it harder to coast along.

The greater engine power will have more of an impact on acceleration than on any given speed. The RPMs at a given speed is a know constant, but the more powerful engine will probably make getting up to speed easier. Also the electronic throttle response might be modified by Honda which would also change the driving characteristics.

 

......Goober - excellent post but to go one step forward. He observed 4000rpm at 80mph and computed for 3250 at 65. Using his formula, the tested GK figures at 3500rpm at 77mph would translate to: 3636rpm at 80mph & 2955rpm at 65mph. I don't doubt the veracity of physics/science/basic math. But no matter what, these have to be put to the test. The reference article did just that.

......not a deal breaker. Hopefully in your eyes, not as dissappointing as initially posted.

.....engine power, revs, Honda mods. That's why a TEST DRIVE may give us results we never expected!!! Honda's way of surprising the masses!!

 

Rottboy, you didn't answer my question... Do you believe the ratios are different?

By ratios, i mean the 6th gear In the GK vs 5th in the GE, the final gear and tire diameter.

I, myself, have not verified (to myself) any of the ratios... So i'm not saying the GK will run at the same RPM "just because it will." It sounded like you were agreeing with them about the ratios being the same, in which case, the RPM will be the same. You don't have to be a numbers expert to see that...

Again, what is it you think needs the test drive for (in terms of RPM)?

If you think that people have the ratios wrong (or just "possibly" wrong), then i can agree with you needing to drive to verify. But if you agree with any of the claims that the ratios are the same, it makes no sense for you to not agree with the RPM.

Unless you introduce slippage, ratios do exactly the same thing every time. Regardless of other factors.

 

Except they didn't say it was 77 mph AT 3500 RPM. Your quote said it was "MORE than 3500 RPM at a 77 MPH cruise." Its a question of, how much over 3500 RPM.

I don't mind accepting that the ratios themselves might be different.

Edit: there are a few other complications, were their readings on a digital display, or based of the gauge needle? Whats the difference between 76 mph vs 77 mph? A little to a lot, depending on who's looking at the gauge and how they're looking at it (slightly to the left or right?). Heck, their speed could've been based on the GPS... Which could also vary slightly (unless you're a robot on a perfectly calm day).

We can't use these reviews as any kind of confirmation on exact numbers, only rough estimates.

 

I did: " Never mentioned ratios as an issue." They could be the same or could be different. What counts is the final test result.

more than.....full disclosure here. I posted the complete verse. Could be +500 rpm. How to factually substantiate that - do a TEST DRIVE ourselves and eliminate the failure of that journalist to be more detailed. But in lieu of no other published data, this is the most factual info. for now.

ratios different....am hoping too. I'd accept that with open arms. Again, I'm beating the dead dog deader, but that's why the TEST DRIVE is a neccessity. Those Honda boys, always having something up their sleeves.

 

As per accordguyintake's thread in which he copy pasted tons and tons of specs (very nice of him), the ratios of the 6th gear are identical down to the 1/100 past the decimal compared with the GE's 5th.

The reason why I find that disappointing is that I find in my GD, rowing through 5 gears is already a lot of "work" to get up to speed since I like to delay my shifts to get some extra torque out of the "power bands". Since I stay in lower gears longer, I can shift early in 4th gear since I'll be nearly at crusing speed already. So now, that means I would have an extra gear to go though before the "coasting" or crusing gear. It just seems like a waste of time.

Perhaps if I'm at 60 mph (legal limit in Canada) I might wanna stay in 5th and wait 'till I go even faster before getting in 6th... Anyway, I'll reserve that judgement till after the test drive.

 

There you go. Good show!!! Tell us what you think after the drive. It may please you more than you currently think.

Its taken me 13 posts to finally convince some to at least make this effort and confirm their impressions about a car that isn't available at most US dealers yet (except in our Aloha State). A bit more patience and we'll all be reading tons of FF post-drive opinions in the next couple of weeks.

Correction: next couple of months, for the M/T in Canada and most probably here too.