Manual vs CVT...?
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,371
From: NC USA
if you are old enough to have used real slushboxes, like the GM hydramatics, you have a point but today's automatics with 5 to 9 'gears' shift much faster than you or anyone can match. the dayof the manual have come and gone. in 10 years no car wuill have a true manual for that reason.
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,371
From: NC USA
I sense the sarcasm but sometimes humor is close to the truth.
Multi-gear transmissions are designed to keep the engine close to its RPM of highest efficiency or power. The problem is that when you are shifting the engine isn't driving the car at all, an efficiency of zero. The more you have to shift, the lower the "duty cycle" of the drivetrain and the worse efficiency gets. There is always a compromise between flexibility of ratios and frequency of shifting.
With the broad powerbands of modern engines, a 6-speed has become the "but this one goes to 11!" icon of wannabe racers. One might be needed if the top speed of the car warranted it, but in an econobox that won't hit 120 the extra gear is just there for bragging rights. The Fit would be just as good with five
Multi-gear transmissions are designed to keep the engine close to its RPM of highest efficiency or power. The problem is that when you are shifting the engine isn't driving the car at all, an efficiency of zero. The more you have to shift, the lower the "duty cycle" of the drivetrain and the worse efficiency gets. There is always a compromise between flexibility of ratios and frequency of shifting.
With the broad powerbands of modern engines, a 6-speed has become the "but this one goes to 11!" icon of wannabe racers. One might be needed if the top speed of the car warranted it, but in an econobox that won't hit 120 the extra gear is just there for bragging rights. The Fit would be just as good with five
the manual Fit needs sixth gear in order to hold down rpm at cruising, a 15% drop would be great. and like Vettes and other performance cars thats all theydo either. they won't reach top speed in the uppermost gear and acceleration is a bit dull (requiring downshifts) but mpg and comfort really shine. a Fit benefits the same way.
Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,917
From: Delaware
I'm not sure on shifting. I have gotten so used to just pumping the gas pedal whenever I need extra power, it has become 2nd nature. Perhaps I'll make a video of it. Seems pretty instant and the power is NICE!
let me start with i feel strongly for manual.
i love the control, the superiority over zombie automatics.
the ability to *take* the lane i need.
when I'm to old to drive i'll hop in an automatic. and then i'll love automatics for totally different reasons.
i love the control, the superiority over zombie automatics.
the ability to *take* the lane i need.
when I'm to old to drive i'll hop in an automatic. and then i'll love automatics for totally different reasons.
Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 55
From: California
I'm a manual guy too. The CVT in the Fit isn't bad as far as CVTs go, but I wouldn't buy one. Even a great CVT is no substitute for a manual for fun. That said, I'm a hardcore manuals-only guy and I understand that different people have different priorities. But I'm teaching my girlfriend to drive this car so that hopefully we won't ever need an auto in the family!
Last edited by jetto-setto; Apr 19, 2015 at 09:45 PM.
Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 35
From: Cameron Park
My favorite part is I climb 1,000+ vertical highway feet every day in about 7 miles and my Gen3 Fit can hold 6th gear in the manual on that grade and it actually feels good. Because you are above 3,000 RPM.
Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 55
From: California
There's no enjoyment in that.I remember a few years back I saw a question on some government driving quiz thing to the effect of, "which of the following are distractions when driving?", and a manual transmission was listed as a correct answer. I was disgusted. Shifting is driving. Only having to get in and press on the "GO" button frees up room for a hell of a lot more distractions.
Herein lies one of the biggest problems I have with automatics. Being able to eat and talk on the phone while you should be paying attention to driving is not an advantage, it's a distraction. Also, it sounds like you enjoy chips and phone calls more than driving.
I remember a few years back I saw a question on some government driving quiz thing to the effect of, "which of the following are distractions when driving?", and a manual transmission was listed as a correct answer. I was disgusted. Shifting is driving. Only having to get in and press on the "GO" button frees up room for a hell of a lot more distractions.
I remember a few years back I saw a question on some government driving quiz thing to the effect of, "which of the following are distractions when driving?", and a manual transmission was listed as a correct answer. I was disgusted. Shifting is driving. Only having to get in and press on the "GO" button frees up room for a hell of a lot more distractions.
There's probably nothing he enjoys more than eating chips.
Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 236
From: NC
if you are old enough to have used real slushboxes, like the GM hydramatics, you have a point but today's automatics with 5 to 9 'gears' shift much faster than you or anyone can match. the dayof the manual have come and gone. in 10 years no car wuill have a true manual for that reason.
Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 55
From: California
Good man.
If manuals go away, I guess I'll drive old cars for the rest of my life. The only time I'd buy an automatic is strictly for transportation and only if I already own another car with an MT for driving enjoyment.
If manuals go away, I guess I'll drive old cars for the rest of my life. The only time I'd buy an automatic is strictly for transportation and only if I already own another car with an MT for driving enjoyment.
Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 236
From: NC
Having a wife that likes manuals helps keep it around longer too. She's actually had more manuals than me!
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,371
From: NC USA
the problem is the fit engine doesn't have enough torque at lesser rpm to make a larger rpm drop to 5th or 6th gear. It simply won't have enough power to maintain speed. in order to have more gears /larger rpm drop between gears more torque is needed. if the fit had 2.4 liter engines it would be able to have more gears/larger gear drops. and maybe better mpg on highway.
here's a good example: the latest elantra 2.0 with 173 hp gets 34 mph overall here with one of our customers and is faster 60 to 100 by far than the fit so it gets along with 6 gears nicely. makes me itch, an hyundai getting better mpg than my fit. honda, surely ito didn't set us back that much did he? where is my civic Si with DSG ? the acura has it, why not honda?
the problem is the fit engine doesn't have enough torque at lesser rpm to make a larger rpm drop to 5th or 6th gear. It simply won't have enough power to maintain speed. in order to have more gears /larger rpm drop between gears more torque is needed. if the fit had 2.4 liter engines it would be able to have more gears/larger gear drops. and maybe better mpg on highway.
here's a good example: the latest elantra 2.0 with 173 hp gets 34 mph overall here with one of our customers and is faster 60 to 100 by far than the fit so it gets along with 6 gears nicely. makes me itch, an hyundai getting better mpg than my fit. honda, surely ito didn't set us back that much did he? where is my civic Si with DSG ? the acura has it, why not honda?
here's a good example: the latest elantra 2.0 with 173 hp gets 34 mph overall here with one of our customers and is faster 60 to 100 by far than the fit so it gets along with 6 gears nicely. makes me itch, an hyundai getting better mpg than my fit. honda, surely ito didn't set us back that much did he? where is my civic Si with DSG ? the acura has it, why not honda?
Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 236
From: NC
here's a good example: the latest elantra 2.0 with 173 hp gets 34 mph overall here with one of our customers and is faster 60 to 100 by far than the fit so it gets along with 6 gears nicely. makes me itch, an hyundai getting better mpg than my fit. honda, surely ito didn't set us back that much did he? where is my civic Si with DSG ? the acura has it, why not honda?
Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 167
From: Philippines
Here in PH we (still?) got the L15z engine with only 5 gears for the M/T. I swear that it is in need of a 6th gear that could coast on a lower rpm. Doing 100km/h on 5th does around 3.2k rpm.
Or maybe just a taller 5th so it could coast at around 2k rpm @ 100km/h.
But yeah comparing to the GE A/T Fits, 5th gear of the GK still gives more speed compared to before.
Or maybe just a taller 5th so it could coast at around 2k rpm @ 100km/h.
But yeah comparing to the GE A/T Fits, 5th gear of the GK still gives more speed compared to before.
Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,545
From: SoCal, CA
Some might interpret this as being happy with a too-short top gear in order to avoid the effort of a downshift on grades. Isn't avoidance of shifting the reason why some say "lazy drivers" buy "slushboxes?"
Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,917
From: Delaware
BTW: The Fit CVT has 7 gears. I see this in the Ktuner datalog. I'm not sure where people are getting that the CVT has 5 gears. If I'm mistaken, I apologize but I'm seeing seven gears in the logs. 'L' gear makes the car hella fun. I have all the benefits of the throttle response and low gearing without the headaches of shifting gears. I mean, while having fun, why would I want to be losing power in between because I have to shift a gear?
Last edited by Myxalplyx; Apr 22, 2015 at 06:14 PM.