Is FLAT towing a 2015 CVT with engine idleing safe for engine/drivetrain?
#61
02-10-2015, 04:02 PM
It's a waste of money to buy a dolly if you are only moving 50-300 miles at a time every 3-9 months or so.
Cars and trucks are built to idle for hours in traffic in high outside temperatures.
Can you disagree with the RV dealer's claim that towing a front-auto trans with engine idling is the same as cruising downhill with the engine idling.
In both situations there is no load on the engine and drivetrain; engine oils and transmission oils are are circulating, lubricating, and cooling, keeping things safe.
Cars and trucks are built to idle for hours in traffic in high outside temperatures.
Can you disagree with the RV dealer's claim that towing a front-auto trans with engine idling is the same as cruising downhill with the engine idling.
In both situations there is no load on the engine and drivetrain; engine oils and transmission oils are are circulating, lubricating, and cooling, keeping things safe.
Hey dude- chill out. First, YTF are you moving every 3-9 months?? And so close in proximity to your previous address?? Yeah, so anyone, for MOST NORMAL REGULAR people you aren't drifters with new cars and RV's (hence this whole issues centers around that) - just drive the car. Like you said, you can afford the RV and the New Fit, but not a dolly apparently, and it is only 50-300 miles. So just drive it or have someone drive it. Big whoop. Or rent a dolly like a normal person. That is after all, why those things exist, to solve problems like this. Geez.
#62
02-10-2015, 04:04 PM
The book says not to tow the Fit on all 4's, so don't do it. End of story. Shitty shade tree mechanics also have different advice about your car than do dealers, so listening to RV dealers over the ACTUAL maker of the car, is analogous. Rent a dolly, or find some other reason why this is the dumbest thing you can possibly argue about. No one cares.
#64
02-19-2015, 11:48 PM
Umm... yea.
My buddy is a Class C die hard. He USED to flat tow his CVT Mini Cooper until he fried his transmission (technically stretched the belt and wore down the cones). This was with a moderate 30k miles on it. IT WAS NOT covered and cost approx. 5k to fix. Its your stuff do what you want. I'd buy a cheap $200 tow dolly and forget of any problems.
As far as running it, it just means you don't have the right car/trans. Get a manual and call it a day unless you can't drive stick.
-bix
My buddy is a Class C die hard. He USED to flat tow his CVT Mini Cooper until he fried his transmission (technically stretched the belt and wore down the cones). This was with a moderate 30k miles on it. IT WAS NOT covered and cost approx. 5k to fix. Its your stuff do what you want. I'd buy a cheap $200 tow dolly and forget of any problems.
As far as running it, it just means you don't have the right car/trans. Get a manual and call it a day unless you can't drive stick.
-bix
#65
07-16-2017, 11:49 PM
The RV salesman and his manager insist it's safe to flat tow a Honda 2015 CVT with the engine idling to keep fluids flowing and cooling the engine & drivetrain.
I'm curious because I am thinking of buying a Fit (with a CVT transmission).
Thanks.
#66
07-17-2017, 01:12 PM
Actually, from the 2015 manual, page 429
Improper towing such as behind a
motorhome or other motor vehicle can do damage
to the transmission.
It does not specify CVT or manual, but it could do harm to either.
RTFM ... Read The Fine Manual.
#67
07-17-2017, 01:16 PM
I am a certifed Honda technician and can guarantee you it is safe to tow your Fit and here's why:
For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to bring prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would work to not only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral phase detectors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters. Such a machine is the 'Turboencabulator'. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto- reluctance and capacitive directance.
The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus- o-delta type placed in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter.
Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed into the rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine and 5 percent reminative tetraiodohexamine. Both these liquids have specific pericosities given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial evolute of retrograde temperature phase disposition and C is the Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient. Initially, n was measured with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to the present date nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper dadoscope.
Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together a regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket. Indeed, this proved to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 1943, it was found that the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a kyptonastic boiling shim to be tankered.
The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral decommutator failed largely because of lack of appreciation of the large quasi-pietic stresses in the gremlin studs; the latter were specially designed to hold the roffit bars to the spamshaft. When, however, it was discovered that wending could be prevented by the simple addition of teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured.
The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak by constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels. This is a distinct advance on the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required after the phase detractors have remissed.
Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of technical development. It has been successfully used for operating nofer trunnions. In addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it may be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal depleneration.
For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to bring prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would work to not only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral phase detectors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters. Such a machine is the 'Turboencabulator'. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto- reluctance and capacitive directance.
The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, surrounded by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two spurving bearings were in direct line with the pentametric fan, the latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side fumbling was effectively prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus- o-delta type placed in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter.
Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed into the rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine and 5 percent reminative tetraiodohexamine. Both these liquids have specific pericosities given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial evolute of retrograde temperature phase disposition and C is the Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient. Initially, n was measured with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to the present date nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper dadoscope.
Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together a regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket. Indeed, this proved to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 1943, it was found that the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a kyptonastic boiling shim to be tankered.
The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral decommutator failed largely because of lack of appreciation of the large quasi-pietic stresses in the gremlin studs; the latter were specially designed to hold the roffit bars to the spamshaft. When, however, it was discovered that wending could be prevented by the simple addition of teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured.
The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak by constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels. This is a distinct advance on the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required after the phase detractors have remissed.
Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of technical development. It has been successfully used for operating nofer trunnions. In addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it may be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to reduce sinusoidal depleneration.
#69
07-17-2017, 04:21 PM
I value my automobile enough that if the owners manual says' don't do it...that's enough for me.
Even if nobody has a "technical" reason why you cant do it, I certainly wouldn't put my vehicle at risk because a RV salesman and manager say it's OK to do it. It's not like they don't have an agenda with their opinion, they sell RV's. They have a pretty good reason to say as much is possible IS possible just because they are probably hoping you might be in the market for a new RV.
Meanwhile I assume that Honda, in their owners manual, that has already sold you the vehicle, may have more direct knowledge about the vehicle..they built and designed it, and there is no advantage to Honda in telling you NO don't do it, if it is really possible to do it.
That's my logic, even if it admittedly is NOT a technical answer.
Even if nobody has a "technical" reason why you cant do it, I certainly wouldn't put my vehicle at risk because a RV salesman and manager say it's OK to do it. It's not like they don't have an agenda with their opinion, they sell RV's. They have a pretty good reason to say as much is possible IS possible just because they are probably hoping you might be in the market for a new RV.
Meanwhile I assume that Honda, in their owners manual, that has already sold you the vehicle, may have more direct knowledge about the vehicle..they built and designed it, and there is no advantage to Honda in telling you NO don't do it, if it is really possible to do it.
That's my logic, even if it admittedly is NOT a technical answer.
#70
07-17-2017, 04:54 PM
Okay, I have to ask, whats so hard to understand when a users manual says no, it means no?
Whats so bad about renting a two wheel dolly for those with CVT's? There used to be these things that bolted to your front wheel hub assemblies that allowed you to 'freewheel" the front wheels while the axles remained locked undisturbed. It was developed before I was even a twinkle in my parents eyes back when having a trailer to take your car to the race track was too expensive to have, so just tow the car itself.
The Manual transmission relies on splash lubrication, so if its being driven by the wheels no problem, its being lubricated.
The CVT I am 99% sure is a VDP type, thats a variable diameter pulley type CVT. Look it up. Anyways in addition to lubrication, the other consideration is heat. CVTs tend to have high friction on the drive belt inside and even if not under load in neutral, this belt will still create heat as its constantly being spun by the drive pulley/output shaft. The gear pump, or oil pump that lubricates/cools the gearbox is on the input shaft, thats the key. The input shaft usually has a double clutch with a planetary gear set to facilitate a reverse gear FYI.
Without lubrication/cooling this belt will burn itself up. This is the risk and the reason why Honda does not recommend flat towing with a CVT. Your choice to either find the spinning hubs, remove the axles, OR do what the rest of us smart mere mortals do...rent/buy a two wheel dolly!
Bass
Whats so bad about renting a two wheel dolly for those with CVT's? There used to be these things that bolted to your front wheel hub assemblies that allowed you to 'freewheel" the front wheels while the axles remained locked undisturbed. It was developed before I was even a twinkle in my parents eyes back when having a trailer to take your car to the race track was too expensive to have, so just tow the car itself.
The Manual transmission relies on splash lubrication, so if its being driven by the wheels no problem, its being lubricated.
The CVT I am 99% sure is a VDP type, thats a variable diameter pulley type CVT. Look it up. Anyways in addition to lubrication, the other consideration is heat. CVTs tend to have high friction on the drive belt inside and even if not under load in neutral, this belt will still create heat as its constantly being spun by the drive pulley/output shaft. The gear pump, or oil pump that lubricates/cools the gearbox is on the input shaft, thats the key. The input shaft usually has a double clutch with a planetary gear set to facilitate a reverse gear FYI.
Without lubrication/cooling this belt will burn itself up. This is the risk and the reason why Honda does not recommend flat towing with a CVT. Your choice to either find the spinning hubs, remove the axles, OR do what the rest of us smart mere mortals do...rent/buy a two wheel dolly!
Bass
Last edited by Bassguitarist1985; 07-18-2017 at 08:38 AM.
#71
07-17-2017, 07:55 PM
Always ask for the proof! :-D
Just click the link: https://www.google.com/search?q=Undo...al+development
Just click the link: https://www.google.com/search?q=Undo...al+development
#72
07-17-2017, 08:00 PM
But I was hoping that OP would share with us an account of his successful flat-tow of his '15 Fit engine idling in Neutral behind his motorhome (despite it not being either recommended or dissuaded as a specific sub-condition in the owner's manual). ;-)
...or maybe just a tale of woe and warning.
#73
07-31-2017, 11:42 PM
The OP makes sense and his rational seems logical. I don't see any reasons towing it with the car idling being an issue. No technical one anyway.
OP flat tow your car with it idling and let us know how it goes.
One thing to think about is this though. If your transmission's lubrication is based on engine speed, meaning the higher the engine speed the more fluid gets pumped through, then you could run into a potential problem. Since the CVT's rotating parts are receiving the same amount of flow moving at higher speeds as it does at idle, it may not be lubricating enough.
Have the RV place put their statement in writing btw. Good luck!
OP flat tow your car with it idling and let us know how it goes.
One thing to think about is this though. If your transmission's lubrication is based on engine speed, meaning the higher the engine speed the more fluid gets pumped through, then you could run into a potential problem. Since the CVT's rotating parts are receiving the same amount of flow moving at higher speeds as it does at idle, it may not be lubricating enough.
Have the RV place put their statement in writing btw. Good luck!
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