NVX / JBL audio system install
#22
Well, both amps will accept both high level and low level inputs. Currently I'm sending the speaker output signals from the head unit directly to both amps.
What that means is that both amps are receiving audio with the low bass filtered out. Based on this post, I believe that the head unit has a low frequency cutoff at around 50 Hz, correct? This doesn't much matter for the door speakers, as both sets have a low frequency cutoff at 70 Hz anyway. It matters more for the subwoofer, which is what would normally fill in those ultra low frequencies.
The subwoofer amp I chose is pretty sophisticated, with the ability to digitally tune the low pass filter precisely. I believe I can manipulate the cutoff frequency, filter slope, and overall gain of the sub amp to lift the extreme low end enough to get the audible frequency response fairly flat. Getting that right might require the purchase of a calibrated curve test mic.
Keeping in mind that I finished the install at 11 pm last night, I haven't yet had time to do much tuning of the sound. I have a few "knobs" I can turn:
- head unit tone controls, including high and low frequencies
- gain settings for front and rear channels on the 4 channel amp
- 0 db and -3db treble cut on the tweeter crossover
- input gain control on subwoofer amp. This is normally set by playing a test CD and adjusting the level until the display says it's at the proper level.
- subwoofer amp digital low pass filter frequency and slope settings
- subwoofer amp output gain control
All that said, there is still the question of what I am shooting for. Sometimes a dead flat frequency response just doesn't sound good. Add in the fact that if you tune things perfectly in a sealed car, then open the windows, the sound changes. There is a diminishing point of returns when tuning car audio.
Thanks for your install thread, by the way. It was most helpful, and I studied it closely before starting my install.
What that means is that both amps are receiving audio with the low bass filtered out. Based on this post, I believe that the head unit has a low frequency cutoff at around 50 Hz, correct? This doesn't much matter for the door speakers, as both sets have a low frequency cutoff at 70 Hz anyway. It matters more for the subwoofer, which is what would normally fill in those ultra low frequencies.
The subwoofer amp I chose is pretty sophisticated, with the ability to digitally tune the low pass filter precisely. I believe I can manipulate the cutoff frequency, filter slope, and overall gain of the sub amp to lift the extreme low end enough to get the audible frequency response fairly flat. Getting that right might require the purchase of a calibrated curve test mic.
Keeping in mind that I finished the install at 11 pm last night, I haven't yet had time to do much tuning of the sound. I have a few "knobs" I can turn:
- head unit tone controls, including high and low frequencies
- gain settings for front and rear channels on the 4 channel amp
- 0 db and -3db treble cut on the tweeter crossover
- input gain control on subwoofer amp. This is normally set by playing a test CD and adjusting the level until the display says it's at the proper level.
- subwoofer amp digital low pass filter frequency and slope settings
- subwoofer amp output gain control
All that said, there is still the question of what I am shooting for. Sometimes a dead flat frequency response just doesn't sound good. Add in the fact that if you tune things perfectly in a sealed car, then open the windows, the sound changes. There is a diminishing point of returns when tuning car audio.
Thanks for your install thread, by the way. It was most helpful, and I studied it closely before starting my install.
#23
It depends on what you are comparing them to. You have to make sure you are comparing apples to apples, or in this case, 4 ohm speakers to 4 ohm speakers. If you compare 4 ohm speaker sensitivity to 2 ohm speaker sensitivity, you can be fooled.
For example, when I was deciding on speakers, another option I considered was going with Infinity reference series for the doors (6030cs and 6032cf) and kappa 120.9W for the sub. Let's compare the mid-bass drivers.
NVX VSP65kit: 4 ohms impedance, 88.5 db sensitivity, 70W rated RMS power
Infinity 6030cs: 2 ohms impedance, 93 db sensitivity, 90W rated RMS power
Sensitivity is measured at 2.83V because home audio speakers normally are 8 ohms, and 2.83V through 8 ohms takes 1W of power. To get 88.5 db from the NVX speaker, you consume 2W of power. The Infinity speaker takes 4W of power (twice as much) to produce about twice the loudness. If you only put 2W of power into the Infinity speaker, you would get about 90 db of sound. So, on a loudness per Watt basis, the speakers are nearly identical. It's a matter of physics. With current technology, nearly every manufacturer's speakers at a particular price point are going to produce similar loudness per unit of power.
Looking at the subwoofers, we see the same physics at work. While neither company specifies at what impedance the sensitivity measurement is taken, since lower impedance gives a higher sensitivity number, it's reasonable to assume that they used the lowest impedance possible, to get the highest possible sensitivity to publish. The NVX has dual 4 ohm voice coils, which gives 2 ohms when wired in parallel. The Infinity has an impedance selector switch which has a 2 ohm position. We assume that both speakers were measured in their 2 ohm configurations. And, no surprise, their listed sensitivities are 90 and 91 db, nearly identical.
Last edited by ToddF; 06-15-2016 at 09:40 AM.
#24
No sound proofing or deadening yet. I'm keeping my eyes open for an economical, lightweight method that provides substantial results.
No rattles yet. Rattles usually come from something that's loose enough to vibrate. If you push on the cargo cover supports, you'll find that they have a little give to them. My deck is sized so it is a tight slip fit, with no play at all. It started too tight, and I had to remove material to get it to fit. I'm a bit worried that when I wrap the wood with fabric, the it will be too tight again.
Also, I'm used to driving crappy cars with lots of strange noises. I just turn up the volume until I can't hear them anymore...
Also, I'm used to driving crappy cars with lots of strange noises. I just turn up the volume until I can't hear them anymore...
#25
You are most welcome! Glad it helped you and others! I agree there are dimishing returns when tuning a car stereo. I tuned mine with the windows closed. I think it sounds amazingly better than stock. That was my end goal, and reasonably priced for under a grand.
#26
To others considering upgrading their audio, here is the order in which I'd spend your money: (starting from an LX model, like mine)
1: Replace the front door speakers with a component set. This immediately extends both the high and low end of the sound. If you are driving from the stock radio, get a set that presents a 4 ohm load, so you don't overheat the head unit. As it is, it gets very hot when operating. A huge improvement for the money.
2: Replace the rear speakers. The front speakers have a much greater effect on the sound for the front seat occupants, but getting matching speakers for the rear will help fill in the sound. Also, with decent speakers, you have twice as many cones generating midbass. With the package deal I got, adding the rear speakers cost less than half of the front set. Good bang for the buck.
3: Add a 4 channel amp to drive the door speakers. The cost comes in at just under the cost of the 4 speakers. The head unit is so underpowered that it really can't drive upgraded speakers properly. Even with the stock speakers, you have to turn the volume setting near the top to get "loud" sound. An off-board amp lets you keep the head unit volume down lower, where there will be less distortion, and lets it run cooler. The off board amp is doing the real power driving of the speakers.
4: The subwoofer and amp should come last. Nothing beats the thumping of powerful low bass, but there are a lot of people who listen to a lot of music without even realizing the deep bass they are missing. This addition costs about as much as everything else added together. You are paying a LOT of money for something most people can easily live without.
4a: If you don't want to spend a ton of money on a subwoofer and amp, you could spend about a fifth as much and get a bass restoration processor. The LX (don't know about the EX) head unit has a built-in bass rolloff that protects the crappy stock speakers. When you swap in better speakers, you can restore the bass and at least get all the bass from your new speakers they are capable of producing. An added subwoofer theoretically can compensate for this bass missing from the mains, but it could be easily argued that a bass restoration processor will give better overall sound even with the addition of a subwoofer.
Last edited by ToddF; 06-20-2016 at 01:54 PM.
#27
Added the missing 4 pins to the harness, and now the steering wheel controls are working again. I have to retrain myself not to reach over to the radio to adjust the volume and change presets.
I attempted to remove the pins from the new harness using the soldering iron destructive technique, but had no luck. Just about destroyed the first pin I tried. After that I just cut open the connector housing to remove the pins.
BTW, you want to do this on the bench, before the wiring is installed, if possible. Working in your dashboard with a soldering iron is no fun. Too much risk of accidentally damaging the interior with dripping solder, or accidental touches by the hot iron.
I attempted to remove the pins from the new harness using the soldering iron destructive technique, but had no luck. Just about destroyed the first pin I tried. After that I just cut open the connector housing to remove the pins.
BTW, you want to do this on the bench, before the wiring is installed, if possible. Working in your dashboard with a soldering iron is no fun. Too much risk of accidentally damaging the interior with dripping solder, or accidental touches by the hot iron.
#29
I looked around for a subwoofer grill that might match my Triple Helix theme, but couldn't find anything. The coolest thing I came across was a discontinued grill designed by Fishman. I took inspiration from that one to design my own.
Mine is made of CNC milled lexan. Here are the legs on the milling machine.
.
Here are the parts after deburring, before drilling and tapping the holes in the legs.
I assembled the parts with stainless socket head cap screws, and mounted the grill to the subwoofer deck. Here's what it looks like with the hatch closed.
And with the hatch open.
Inside view from the rear door.
And a closeup view.
Mine is made of CNC milled lexan. Here are the legs on the milling machine.
Here are the parts after deburring, before drilling and tapping the holes in the legs.
I assembled the parts with stainless socket head cap screws, and mounted the grill to the subwoofer deck. Here's what it looks like with the hatch closed.
And with the hatch open.
Inside view from the rear door.
And a closeup view.
Last edited by ToddF; 07-05-2016 at 11:06 AM.
#31
Hey man, came out perfect! So perfect that I am attempting to copy your cargo tray design, but inverted to allow a larger custom dual 12" sub woofer enclosure to sit below. I know I'm seeing this thread very late but I was wondering if you could post up a few key measurements to emulate the "cargo tray" that I could use as a guide to cut my own. Don't worry about the actual enclosure specs, I'm just looking for the tray.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
flawless
2nd Generation GE8 Specific Fit I.C.E. Sub-Forum
3
04-05-2016 10:41 AM
713_fit
2nd Gen GE8 Specific Fit Interior Modifications Sub-Forum
24
10-22-2011 04:23 PM
Redheart
Fit Interior Modifications
1
06-07-2007 06:59 AM