KraftWerks Supercharger Kit Thread 2.0!
#41
01-17-2008, 11:37 AM
#42
01-17-2008, 07:27 PM
10 PSI kit will be available for MT only.
The kit is relatively easy to install. If you have changed your brake pads, you will probably be able to install our kit.(What kancerr said
) Our kit comes with a full installation manual, with pictures throughout.-Oscar Jackson Jr.
#43
01-21-2008, 12:27 PM
i got ya, i'm simply saying that if you're interested in data that could speak toward reliability and durability, the AJR guys have A LOT to say. they also have a lot of miles logged on their car and, this is just my opinion, can talk intelligently about road racing. and road racing is so much more stressful than just tooling around at cruise, on an autox, or drag racing (when it comes to daily driving) that i think they can say something meaningful about the long term durability of the L15 when in a boost application.
We have done A LOT of road race testing. The Fit kit has actually been improved from its original state BECAUSE of our long term track testing. We are very abusive in our testing. We bounce them off the rev limiter, heat soak engines; we attempt to make them detonate!
If you didn't know Jackson Racing have won 44 SCCA National Championships, including back to back SCCA Escort Endurance Championships. When you walk into Honda dealers and they have the "Double Take" CRX poster on the wall... the yellow car is a Jackson Racing CRX.
Oscar Jackson and Jackson Racing have been one of the most successful Honda road racing organizations. We have won in all conditions, no matter if it's on:
Ice- Our unlimited Turbo/Nitrous Civics won multiple Ice Racing championships.
Gravel- We built the ONLY Honda to ever win a round of the World Rally Championship.
Tarmac- I guess that's stated above.
So to say that we can't talk intelligently about racing or the race track
... that is simply and absolutely inaccurate.-Oscar Jackson Jr.
#44
01-21-2008, 01:43 PM
hey guys...
ive been stalking this thread and have occasionally asked stupid questions. so here goes another...
Pretty much everyone ive talked to and the answers gotten; have pointed me in the direction of this mod being generally safe because the boost isnt much, jacksons are reliable tuners, etc. Dont boost all the time and you'll be happy.
BUT here is my but...
If im driving on a roadtrip ex. las vegas and im traveling 80-90mph (consistently) my car will be pretty high in the RPM range probably 4-5k maybe higher. so will my car be boosting that entire time or not. Cause the impression im getting is that boosting for a while (like a 5hour roadtrip) probably wont be good. what do you guys think?
ive been stalking this thread and have occasionally asked stupid questions. so here goes another...
Pretty much everyone ive talked to and the answers gotten; have pointed me in the direction of this mod being generally safe because the boost isnt much, jacksons are reliable tuners, etc. Dont boost all the time and you'll be happy.
BUT here is my but...
If im driving on a roadtrip ex. las vegas and im traveling 80-90mph (consistently) my car will be pretty high in the RPM range probably 4-5k maybe higher. so will my car be boosting that entire time or not. Cause the impression im getting is that boosting for a while (like a 5hour roadtrip) probably wont be good. what do you guys think?
I apologize for the delay gloryhound!
You will not be in boost at steady-state, cruise throttle. Your engine would be seeing a common vacuum situation, and adjust as it did before the supercharger.
When you go to climb the Baker Grade, you will not have to down-shift twice, try to catch a draft off a SUV
, and spin the engine at high RPMs. You will be able to roll into the throttle, and climb the hill faster, with the help of boost. You will spend less time on the hill revving the engine, with the help of a little boost.Your engine will not see boost for the duration of the trip. Unless you were at full throttle the whole time and never lifted.
So... At highway cruise speeds- You will NOT be in boost. This goes for both superchargers and turbochargers. But when you hit the throttle to pass someone on a supercharged engine, you will see boost immediately, and be able to accelerate. There is no lag between your foot and boosted acceleration.
We have Mazda Miata supercharger kits with over 17 years of abuse and hundreds of thousands of miles. The only maintenance by our customers is changing their engine oil.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
#45
01-21-2008, 03:11 PM
Oscar:
Question from those of us at altitude (I know you did high altitude testing).
When does the Rotrex make its peak boost of 5 psi in the RPM band at both sea level and at 5000+ ft? I know I will have to rev it a bit more to see the true 5 psi here in Denver, thats why I am asking. I understand FI very well, and I am sure you have engineered the bypass valve very well, and I just want to understand where in the RPM band the Rotrex is hitting that peak at both sea level and high altitude (assume a full throttle run).
Thanks, looking forward to hearing a response, and maybe next time you are in Colorado we can meet up
-Eric
Question from those of us at altitude (I know you did high altitude testing).
When does the Rotrex make its peak boost of 5 psi in the RPM band at both sea level and at 5000+ ft? I know I will have to rev it a bit more to see the true 5 psi here in Denver, thats why I am asking. I understand FI very well, and I am sure you have engineered the bypass valve very well, and I just want to understand where in the RPM band the Rotrex is hitting that peak at both sea level and high altitude (assume a full throttle run).
Thanks, looking forward to hearing a response, and maybe next time you are in Colorado we can meet up
-Eric
No matter what, you will not be seeing the same amount of boost as your sea level friends. Its the laws of physics, there is just less air.
But your percentage increase in power will be the same as sea level. So no problems.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
#46
01-22-2008, 06:11 PM
hi oscar, you seem to think that i insinuated that you guys didn't road race. i did no such thing. i'm just saying that AJR also has a road-raced, boosted Fit application with a track record and that they too could shed some light on how tough (or not) the L15 is.
i was aware of your organization's road racing successes prior to your above post. but to be fair, you guys have been a little mum about your testing data, whereas AJR has spoken openly about theirs and has a track record to boot (on the Fit in particular, which is why i'd even mention them). no offense, but this is the car industry, and in the age of nearly instantaneous and free information, no company, OEM or otherwise, gets a free pass regardless of its history of success. it's like the stock market - past performance is no guarantee of future success. unless you prove it.
and for the record, my wife and i were talking about choosing between a fit hybrid vs. supercharging our current fit. since it is likely to be cheaper to supercharge the fit than to eat depreciation, fees, mark-up on the new car, she offered to split the cost of the SC with me.
when you get a chance, these are my specific questions:
1. do you test your AT application with the same regimen as your MT application? i'm specifically concerned with road racing, and i don't go any longer than 30 minutes at a time. it would be nice to know that all i have to do is switch to amsoil AT fluid and call it good, or not. what did you guys do?
2. would you still recommend the base kit (without IC) knowing it will encounter road race conditions? will basically adding a few gallons of 100 octane be sufficient?
3. what type of dyno are you using, and what were the results of your base run and after run? were all those runs on 91 octane?
thanks in advance.
i was aware of your organization's road racing successes prior to your above post. but to be fair, you guys have been a little mum about your testing data, whereas AJR has spoken openly about theirs and has a track record to boot (on the Fit in particular, which is why i'd even mention them). no offense, but this is the car industry, and in the age of nearly instantaneous and free information, no company, OEM or otherwise, gets a free pass regardless of its history of success. it's like the stock market - past performance is no guarantee of future success. unless you prove it.
and for the record, my wife and i were talking about choosing between a fit hybrid vs. supercharging our current fit. since it is likely to be cheaper to supercharge the fit than to eat depreciation, fees, mark-up on the new car, she offered to split the cost of the SC with me.
when you get a chance, these are my specific questions:
1. do you test your AT application with the same regimen as your MT application? i'm specifically concerned with road racing, and i don't go any longer than 30 minutes at a time. it would be nice to know that all i have to do is switch to amsoil AT fluid and call it good, or not. what did you guys do?
2. would you still recommend the base kit (without IC) knowing it will encounter road race conditions? will basically adding a few gallons of 100 octane be sufficient?
3. what type of dyno are you using, and what were the results of your base run and after run? were all those runs on 91 octane?
thanks in advance.
I was just informing you (and others) that we have a track record of abusive testing with all different types of engines and power-adders. We don't tell everyone about our testing because there is too much to talk about! We never stop testing; we are testing everyday, because you drive your cars everyday. We may not share all our private testing data, but we share important figures and ensure a quality product.
1. We have not tested the AT at the racetrack. I would HIGHLY recommend a Trans Oil Cooler for AT track abuse. Honda Automatics have done fairly well with boost in spirited STREET driving, but track abuse is different. I would always use Honda Automatic Transmission Fluid. Honda Trans Oil is usually the ONLY oil that works properly in Honda transmissions.
2. We have ran our 10 PSI kit Non-Intercooled through many track days, with no issues. Intercoolers are not as necessary as you might think. Ask Chris... He saw us working his car on the dyno run after run, without a break between runs. Then he noticed we would hold onto the discharge pipe DURING and AFTER runs, as a kind of quick temperature check. This is only possible with the Rotrex!
If you would like to throw some 100 in on a track day, that's nice, but not required. Boosted engines on hot, abusive track days always like 100.
3. We use a SuperFlow AutoDyn currently (similar to a DynoJet). It produces its numbers as accurate to a DynoJet, and has been tested against other DynoJet dynos. We use standard 91 octane pump gas. If we used any other fuel, that would not reflect a real-world scenario. Final dyno numbers will be announced on our website in the coming week.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
#47
01-23-2008, 11:24 AM
i agree, there would be so many questions if we found out the parameters of testing...and the fact of the matter is, on most consumer products that you can buy, even the level of question answering that we have already gotten is unheard of, so thanks kraftwerks!
i finally picked up the lastest siphon, and the article was great, the gas mileage issue was wonderful too!!!!
its good to hear that its meant to be a perfect boost medium....not to little but not to much either.
someone (kraftwerks, jdmchris) remind me....that kit was the OLD one right?
and another question for the jacksons....if you are not planning on seeing track time...will the a/t fluid cooler really be necessary? and will the add on intercooler compromise our fog's?
o
i finally picked up the lastest siphon, and the article was great, the gas mileage issue was wonderful too!!!!
its good to hear that its meant to be a perfect boost medium....not to little but not to much either.
someone (kraftwerks, jdmchris) remind me....that kit was the OLD one right?
and another question for the jacksons....if you are not planning on seeing track time...will the a/t fluid cooler really be necessary? and will the add on intercooler compromise our fog's?
o
Putting a transmission cooler may not be necessary for the AT, but it would be an added bonus.
The intercooler option features have not been announced yet. We will try our best, but it is a really tight area to work in.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
#48
01-24-2008, 02:45 PM
oscar,
could you post a link or two regarding the supercard engine management software? will something like a tactrix cable or other suitable obd2 interface be able to reflash the supercard, or will you make the necessary interface available for sale at some point?
and for everyone else, here's a link for perusing -
http://www.w2wpowertrain.com/images_...infoC15-16.pdf
could you post a link or two regarding the supercard engine management software? will something like a tactrix cable or other suitable obd2 interface be able to reflash the supercard, or will you make the necessary interface available for sale at some point?
and for everyone else, here's a link for perusing -
http://www.w2wpowertrain.com/images_...infoC15-16.pdf
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
#49
01-24-2008, 02:58 PM
The supercharger is connected by the crankshaft, and thus turns faster at higher RPMs. The figure 5 PSI means that the greatest amount of boost you will see from this supercharger system is 5 PSI. You will see about 5 PSI at high RPMs.
Boost pressure is also determined by conditions and modifications.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
#50
01-24-2008, 03:07 PM
Coming from a turbo charged car I can say that it was always difficult to maintain full boost pressure at high rpms with a smaller turbo, because it could not flow enough air. I am not sure the size of the rotrex so you'd have to see on a gauge or learn from one of the testers
The Rotrex does not have this issue. It continues to spin and be efficient throughout the rev range.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
#51
01-30-2008, 02:14 PM
What do you guys think I should do since my car has 1200 miles. Should I jump on this? Will my engine be ok handling extra power since its so new? I know it'll void warranty so I dont know what is the best thing to do in this case.
Also, Oscar,
I noticed that the high boost on the s2k is going for the same $ as the base kit for the s2k. Will the Fit kit be the same?
What mods will I need with a high boost other than full exhaust. Or can I run it on a completely stock fit?
Also, Oscar,
I noticed that the high boost on the s2k is going for the same $ as the base kit for the s2k. Will the Fit kit be the same?
What mods will I need with a high boost other than full exhaust. Or can I run it on a completely stock fit?
The Fit Base kit will be cheaper than the High-Boost kit. The High-Boost will be using Hondata reflash and injectors, while the Base kit uses the SuperCard.
The High-Boost kit can be used on a completely stock car. In fact, that might be more fun! Then that poor stock S2000 wouldn't know what hit him.
I expect the High-Boost kit to be released sometime late Spring. There will be an easy upgrade package for Base kit owners to High-Boost. Pricing has not been finalized.
But how about I release this Base kit first!
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
Loving the new smilies! This has been me the last few weeks-
#52
01-30-2008, 04:16 PM
#53
01-31-2008, 04:39 PM
#54
01-31-2008, 09:25 PM
Our official installation instructions and dyno figures will be available from kraftwerksusa.com in the next couple weeks. I will be sure to post when they are available!
In order to get CARB approval, you must submit multiple forms, test, and that all takes time to clear the system. Welcome to government!
We will have the kit CARB-Pending upon release. There really is no way around this. We have always followed through with our CARB testing, and we do not intend to stop.
Breathe easy!
-OJR
In order to get CARB approval, you must submit multiple forms, test, and that all takes time to clear the system. Welcome to government!
We will have the kit CARB-Pending upon release. There really is no way around this. We have always followed through with our CARB testing, and we do not intend to stop.
Breathe easy!
-OJR
#55
02-01-2008, 11:32 AM
The Hondata reflash will be available for the High-Boost Fit only. The base kit uses our SuperCard engine management.
-OJR
#56
02-01-2008, 11:34 AM
Hey OJR, I know that the kit will use all stock components, which is great design!! But how well do they handle under the extra stress being made by the kit? I read somewhere that no other upgrades are needed, but suggested some kind of temp gauges, can you elaborate if any gauges are recommended and how will they work w/ the base kit??
No gauges are required. If you are interested in some gauges, it's up to you to decide what you would like to see reported.
-OJR
#57
02-01-2008, 11:44 AM
Jack up the Fit, put it safely on jack stands, and you will be able to install the kit... No problem.
-OJR
#58
02-01-2008, 07:29 PM
#59
02-01-2008, 07:44 PM
And for extended driving, its just the same. We drove our Silver Fit to Buttonwillow Raceway, ran it at the track all day hard, and then drove it back to SoCal. We have taken the Fit from SoCal to Colorado in one day (11 hour trip), without an issue.
We are no where near the max boost range for the L15. Our High-Boost (10 PSI) kit will run all day with no issues as well, so there is no need to be concerned at 5 PSI.
-OJR
#60
02-01-2008, 07:47 PM