Clutch Delay Valve
#21
I just replaced the MC in my GE with a different MC. Now the car drives a lot better. It takes a lot more finesse to get the clutch to slip. It's more of an on-off switch now than before. It doesn't slip the clutch for you.
#22
Stolen from my thread on HondaSwap.
2009 Fit (ge8) Clutch Delay Valve
Originally Posted by awptickes
I just swapped out my Master Cylinder with a Omni-Power Clutch Master Cylinder, effectively removing the CDV entirely. The CDV is designed into the MC on the Fit, just like with the RSX and the 2001-2005 Civic.
Now the car feels like a whole new car. I can feel through the clutch pedal now. The clutch GRABS when you drop it. It's like driving a WRX (with a lot less power and traction.)
I bought this kit:
Club RSX.com: Omni-Power Clutch Master Cylinder: Acura RSX
The ClubRSX kit fit perfectly. No surprise Honda used the RSX-style MC in the Fit, as they used the same front brake calipers too. You use the spacer provided, and the stainless-steel braided soft-line as well. The softline replaces the hardline that attaches directly to the MC. I used the pivot-thingie already attached to my OEM clutch MC. I zip-tied the stainless steel line in place so it wouldn't float around.
The OPCMC is 21mm bore, where the OEM MC is 15.8mm bore, so there is a significant difference in throw. I had to remove the upper clutch stop adjustment bolt's lock nut entirely. I will probably get a longer bolt, as it still needs about 5mm more. Now the clutch rests at about the same level as the brake pedal. It grabs about 3/4" from the top. It doesn't slip at all.
The pedal is also a bit stiffer. It's more like an STi's clutch -- it doesn't feel like a gas pedal. I don't think I'll need to upgrade the clutch disc now, as it feels like I just put an upgraded clutch in the car. Shifts are quicker, more precise, and the response is instant. Launching is easier, because instead of the car slipping the clutch for you, now you can do it properly.
I no longer feel like I'm 12 years old again driving stick.
Now the car feels like a whole new car. I can feel through the clutch pedal now. The clutch GRABS when you drop it. It's like driving a WRX (with a lot less power and traction.)
I bought this kit:
Club RSX.com: Omni-Power Clutch Master Cylinder: Acura RSX
The ClubRSX kit fit perfectly. No surprise Honda used the RSX-style MC in the Fit, as they used the same front brake calipers too. You use the spacer provided, and the stainless-steel braided soft-line as well. The softline replaces the hardline that attaches directly to the MC. I used the pivot-thingie already attached to my OEM clutch MC. I zip-tied the stainless steel line in place so it wouldn't float around.
The OPCMC is 21mm bore, where the OEM MC is 15.8mm bore, so there is a significant difference in throw. I had to remove the upper clutch stop adjustment bolt's lock nut entirely. I will probably get a longer bolt, as it still needs about 5mm more. Now the clutch rests at about the same level as the brake pedal. It grabs about 3/4" from the top. It doesn't slip at all.
The pedal is also a bit stiffer. It's more like an STi's clutch -- it doesn't feel like a gas pedal. I don't think I'll need to upgrade the clutch disc now, as it feels like I just put an upgraded clutch in the car. Shifts are quicker, more precise, and the response is instant. Launching is easier, because instead of the car slipping the clutch for you, now you can do it properly.
I no longer feel like I'm 12 years old again driving stick.
#23
Have one sitting in the cart at ClubRSX. How long did it take you to change it out, knowing that it would probably take longer on the LHD model being that it all resides behind the airbox? Did you go ahead and change the clutch line to a braided stainless while you changed out the master cylinder as well?
No longer in cart, just ordered it.
No longer in cart, just ordered it.
Last edited by 555sexydrive; 04-08-2010 at 11:52 PM.
#24
It took me about 3 hours.
It was all behind the airbox on mine too. I didn't change out the clutch soft-line with a stainless steel braid line, because I have never noticed a difference with them in the past.
It was all behind the airbox on mine too. I didn't change out the clutch soft-line with a stainless steel braid line, because I have never noticed a difference with them in the past.
#25
Well then it should take a bit shorter time for me then. I'm RHD and no airbox in my way. Yeah I think they are a bit gimmicky compared to braided brake lines, but they do follow that same train of thought of the rubber expanding when engaged.
I just hope that the master cylinder is the same between the USDM and JDM model. I would be quite surprised if it is not, but only time will tell.
I just hope that the master cylinder is the same between the USDM and JDM model. I would be quite surprised if it is not, but only time will tell.
#27
Best way to find out would be to buy a new OEM MC for the GD3, then buy the OPMC and compare outside of the car. It's what I did.
#28
But after a quick referencing of Majestic Honda's site they are different.
Last edited by gd3vbp; 04-10-2010 at 04:24 PM.
#30
Well, since that's the case I am glad I am used to mine the way it is. https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/imag...s/rolleyes.gif
#34
I wouldn't say it drives like a normal car with the Omni Power. As you've said, the clutch pedal is much heavier/stiffer even though I have sufficient freeplay, and don't ride the clutch. ...The tendency to shift faster and accidentally drive much faster is rather surprising--I end up tailgating quite often now.
#35
How difficult was this mod? I'm wondering how hard is it really to keep the CDV. If I drive more conservatively/easy on the car will the CDV affect the ride?
I'm under the impression that when you are trying to push the car and go fast the CDV will be a hindrance.
I'm looking into buying a M/T fit and this is something I'm worried about.. stuttery shifts + clutch wear you can't do anything about unless you address the valve.
I'm under the impression that when you are trying to push the car and go fast the CDV will be a hindrance.
I'm looking into buying a M/T fit and this is something I'm worried about.. stuttery shifts + clutch wear you can't do anything about unless you address the valve.
#36
Not hard. It's relatively easy if you're mechanically inclined unlike me. Leaving in the CDV means having to time shifts slowly and not putting torque to the ground especially from 1st to 2nd. It's OK if you don't mind people tailgating you from full stops, or if you drive for fuel economy--not that the MT GE's gearing is great for fuel economy. Learning the timing is not quite overreving and dropping the clutch, but it is timing as the there is very little to no feel of clutch engagement.
Working alone, I wasted about 5 hrs total including much overhead, like walking to the hardware store for a hose for bleeding, walking there again for a longer clutch pedal adjustment bolt, bleeding twice, etc. I spent about an hour stripping the original hard line from the original CMC before getting out locking pliers, and another hour trying to get the slightly smaller OmniPower CMC in (after forgetting to align the hose and torque down the flex hose). It went in smoothly the first time, I realized I forget to tighten, then it took an hour to get in again.
Pull air filter box, pull battery, pull air intake, unbolt and move aside the clutch reservoir, and it's almost completely clear to the CMC & hydraulic lines.
With some rags under the hard line, use flare wrenches or locking pliers to remove and replace the hard line. Add the flex soft hose, new CMC, new CMC spacer, and expensive old paper gasket facing the firewall. Orienting the hoses toward the front of the vehicle seemed to work best, but I also had a hard time get it in at all.
A clean new 3/16 in ID hose fitted snuggly on the bleeder nipple, but not so well the second time--I left some air in the system the first time.
Reinstall intake, battery, and air filter.
A restriction (valve) exists under the OEM CMC's plastic nipple to the reservoir. A 3/32 in (2.38 mm) drill bit is likely good enough, but there could be another valve elsewhere.
Working alone, I wasted about 5 hrs total including much overhead, like walking to the hardware store for a hose for bleeding, walking there again for a longer clutch pedal adjustment bolt, bleeding twice, etc. I spent about an hour stripping the original hard line from the original CMC before getting out locking pliers, and another hour trying to get the slightly smaller OmniPower CMC in (after forgetting to align the hose and torque down the flex hose). It went in smoothly the first time, I realized I forget to tighten, then it took an hour to get in again.
Pull air filter box, pull battery, pull air intake, unbolt and move aside the clutch reservoir, and it's almost completely clear to the CMC & hydraulic lines.
With some rags under the hard line, use flare wrenches or locking pliers to remove and replace the hard line. Add the flex soft hose, new CMC, new CMC spacer, and expensive old paper gasket facing the firewall. Orienting the hoses toward the front of the vehicle seemed to work best, but I also had a hard time get it in at all.
A clean new 3/16 in ID hose fitted snuggly on the bleeder nipple, but not so well the second time--I left some air in the system the first time.
Reinstall intake, battery, and air filter.
A restriction (valve) exists under the OEM CMC's plastic nipple to the reservoir. A 3/32 in (2.38 mm) drill bit is likely good enough, but there could be another valve elsewhere.
#38
There is a thread going on in great detail about removing the clutch delay on the GD3 here: https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-...ine-forum.html
Last edited by lcq4blackstar; 05-25-2010 at 02:54 PM.
#39
The MT is a 09 GE.
ED: I looked at the other thread. From the Honda GD CMC schematic, I suspect the GD valve design is the same, and will upload a before-drilling photo tonight.
ED: Photos linked. Also, to be more explicit, the hole diameter should probably be 2.50 mm, and that's why 3/32 in (2.38 mm) is likely good enough.
By mkchiu at 2010-05-26
By mkchiu at 2010-05-26
ED: I looked at the other thread. From the Honda GD CMC schematic, I suspect the GD valve design is the same, and will upload a before-drilling photo tonight.
ED: Photos linked. Also, to be more explicit, the hole diameter should probably be 2.50 mm, and that's why 3/32 in (2.38 mm) is likely good enough.
By mkchiu at 2010-05-26
By mkchiu at 2010-05-26
Last edited by mkchiu; 05-26-2010 at 07:51 PM.