Clutch Delay Valve
#42
06-04-2010, 09:52 AM
Not hard. It's relatively easy if you're mechanically inclined unlike me. Leaving in the CDV means having to time shifts slowly and not putting torque to the ground especially from 1st to 2nd. It's OK if you don't mind people tailgating you from full stops, or if you drive for fuel economy--not that the MT GE's gearing is great for fuel economy. Learning the timing is not quite overreving and dropping the clutch, but it is timing as the there is very little to no feel of clutch engagement.
Working alone, I wasted about 5 hrs total including much overhead, like walking to the hardware store for a hose for bleeding, walking there again for a longer clutch pedal adjustment bolt, bleeding twice, etc. I spent about an hour stripping the original hard line from the original CMC before getting out locking pliers, and another hour trying to get the slightly smaller OmniPower CMC in (after forgetting to align the hose and torque down the flex hose). It went in smoothly the first time, I realized I forget to tighten, then it took an hour to get in again.
Pull air filter box, pull battery, pull air intake, unbolt and move aside the clutch reservoir, and it's almost completely clear to the CMC & hydraulic lines.
With some rags under the hard line, use flare wrenches or locking pliers to remove and replace the hard line. Add the flex soft hose, new CMC, new CMC spacer, and expensive old paper gasket facing the firewall. Orienting the hoses toward the front of the vehicle seemed to work best, but I also had a hard time get it in at all.
A clean new 3/16 in ID hose fitted snuggly on the bleeder nipple, but not so well the second time--I left some air in the system the first time.
Reinstall intake, battery, and air filter.
A restriction (valve) exists under the OEM CMC's plastic nipple to the reservoir. A 3/32 in (2.38 mm) drill bit is likely good enough, but there could be another valve elsewhere.
Working alone, I wasted about 5 hrs total including much overhead, like walking to the hardware store for a hose for bleeding, walking there again for a longer clutch pedal adjustment bolt, bleeding twice, etc. I spent about an hour stripping the original hard line from the original CMC before getting out locking pliers, and another hour trying to get the slightly smaller OmniPower CMC in (after forgetting to align the hose and torque down the flex hose). It went in smoothly the first time, I realized I forget to tighten, then it took an hour to get in again.
Pull air filter box, pull battery, pull air intake, unbolt and move aside the clutch reservoir, and it's almost completely clear to the CMC & hydraulic lines.
With some rags under the hard line, use flare wrenches or locking pliers to remove and replace the hard line. Add the flex soft hose, new CMC, new CMC spacer, and expensive old paper gasket facing the firewall. Orienting the hoses toward the front of the vehicle seemed to work best, but I also had a hard time get it in at all.
A clean new 3/16 in ID hose fitted snuggly on the bleeder nipple, but not so well the second time--I left some air in the system the first time.
Reinstall intake, battery, and air filter.
A restriction (valve) exists under the OEM CMC's plastic nipple to the reservoir. A 3/32 in (2.38 mm) drill bit is likely good enough, but there could be another valve elsewhere.
#43
06-04-2010, 11:33 AM
I'm not planning on putting the original CMC back in anytime soon. I'd need a replacement hardline since I've thrown out the original.
awptickes is unclear but seems to be implying the integral damper (or accumulator) on the GE CMC has more happening than I thought... From the link to the GD CMC thread, it looked like the GD CMC damper was separate though.
I bought a 40 mm bolt. It was excessive, but needing the adjustment nut to reduce the (pedal stop) length was not an issue--about 1.0 cm between bolt head and top of nut. I'll probably add a spring eventually since the clutch pedal assembly's integral spring isn't strong enough to consistently restore the pedal to an out position. The push from hydraulics aren't pushing the pedal up and out enough to maintain sufficient freeplay--about 0.5 cm from bolt end to stop (when pedal gets temporarily stuck down).
ED: I just remembered I had installed the yoke as deep as possible onto the CMC rod. After backing the yoke out to the end of the rod (but still having all yoke threads engage the rod), the pedal functions as expected without changes to springs / tension. Below are images highlighting the yoke, pedal pin, and cotter pin.
The distance from the head of the pedal stop bolt to the adjustment nut is now about 1.5 cm out of a total length of 40 mm. The original 25 mm bolt without a nut may work depending on the install, and new CMC tolerances. So a 30 mm bolt would be safer, and a 40 mm only hurts the wallet.
By mkchiu at 2010-06-04
By mkchiu at 2010-06-04
awptickes is unclear but seems to be implying the integral damper (or accumulator) on the GE CMC has more happening than I thought... From the link to the GD CMC thread, it looked like the GD CMC damper was separate though.
I bought a 40 mm bolt. It was excessive, but needing the adjustment nut to reduce the (pedal stop) length was not an issue--about 1.0 cm between bolt head and top of nut. I'll probably add a spring eventually since the clutch pedal assembly's integral spring isn't strong enough to consistently restore the pedal to an out position. The push from hydraulics aren't pushing the pedal up and out enough to maintain sufficient freeplay--about 0.5 cm from bolt end to stop (when pedal gets temporarily stuck down).
ED: I just remembered I had installed the yoke as deep as possible onto the CMC rod. After backing the yoke out to the end of the rod (but still having all yoke threads engage the rod), the pedal functions as expected without changes to springs / tension. Below are images highlighting the yoke, pedal pin, and cotter pin.
The distance from the head of the pedal stop bolt to the adjustment nut is now about 1.5 cm out of a total length of 40 mm. The original 25 mm bolt without a nut may work depending on the install, and new CMC tolerances. So a 30 mm bolt would be safer, and a 40 mm only hurts the wallet.
By mkchiu at 2010-06-04 By mkchiu at 2010-06-04
Last edited by mkchiu; 06-04-2010 at 01:35 PM. Reason: no linebreaks, formatting, details
#45
06-05-2010, 01:26 AM
Re: spring:
ED: I just remembered I had installed the yoke as deep as possible onto the CMC rod. After backing the yoke out to the end of the rod (but still having all yoke threads engage the rod), the pedal functions as expected without changes to springs / tension. Below are images highlighting the yoke, pedal pin, and cotter pin.
The distance from the head of the pedal stop bolt to the adjustment nut is now about 1.5 cm out of a total length of 40 mm. The original 25 mm bolt without a nut may work depending on the install, and new CMC tolerances. So a 30 mm bolt would be safer, and a 40 mm only hurts the wallet.
The distance from the head of the pedal stop bolt to the adjustment nut is now about 1.5 cm out of a total length of 40 mm. The original 25 mm bolt without a nut may work depending on the install, and new CMC tolerances. So a 30 mm bolt would be safer, and a 40 mm only hurts the wallet.
#46
06-07-2010, 11:08 PM
Don't drill out the small hole. You'll wind up buying a new CMC. The tolerances are rather tight, and it's best if you just leave that part unmodified. One thing I toyed with is putting a nickel under the plate between the metal disc and the outer plate. Never installed it, but it seemed to help a little on the test-bench.
No matter what you do to the stock CMC, you'll still be left with an extremely light clutch pedal, which is why I searched for aftermarket options.
As for the stop-bolt, I just took the nut off, and tightened it into the stop threading all the way. I then adjusted the pedal play to my satisfaction. I may still wind up replacing the omnipower clutch adjustment rod with an OEM rod to get the pedal height closer to stock.
Hope I'm still not being too vague. :P
#47
06-08-2010, 01:11 AM
I had a hell of a time with the clutch activation when I first got my car but it seems to have gotten better over time..... It actually feels just fine to me now unless I am wearing anything other than deck shoes, thin sole loafers or deck shoes..... I usually wear driving shoes or no shoes at all.... Thick sole hiking type and sneakers and I am all screwed up.... I could understand if I had really large feet but size 13 D should present no problem.
#48
06-09-2010, 12:46 AM
I'm being vague because I have to be. Damned NDAs. There's a lot of safety measures going on in the CMC. There is a damper mechanism and the restriction for fluid and the throw is longer than usual to 'coax' the average user to slip the clutch and put less wear on the transmission.
Don't drill out the small hole. You'll wind up buying a new CMC. The tolerances are rather tight, and it's best if you just leave that part unmodified. One thing I toyed with is putting a nickel under the plate between the metal disc and the outer plate. Never installed it, but it seemed to help a little on the test-bench.
No matter what you do to the stock CMC, you'll still be left with an extremely light clutch pedal, which is why I searched for aftermarket options.
As for the stop-bolt, I just took the nut off, and tightened it into the stop threading all the way. I then adjusted the pedal play to my satisfaction. I may still wind up replacing the omnipower clutch adjustment rod with an OEM rod to get the pedal height closer to stock.
Hope I'm still not being too vague. :P
Don't drill out the small hole. You'll wind up buying a new CMC. The tolerances are rather tight, and it's best if you just leave that part unmodified. One thing I toyed with is putting a nickel under the plate between the metal disc and the outer plate. Never installed it, but it seemed to help a little on the test-bench.
No matter what you do to the stock CMC, you'll still be left with an extremely light clutch pedal, which is why I searched for aftermarket options.
As for the stop-bolt, I just took the nut off, and tightened it into the stop threading all the way. I then adjusted the pedal play to my satisfaction. I may still wind up replacing the omnipower clutch adjustment rod with an OEM rod to get the pedal height closer to stock.
Hope I'm still not being too vague. :P
#49
06-09-2010, 12:54 AM
I had a hell of a time with the clutch activation when I first got my car but it seems to have gotten better over time..... It actually feels just fine to me now unless I am wearing anything other than deck shoes, thin sole loafers or deck shoes..... I usually wear driving shoes or no shoes at all.... Thick sole hiking type and sneakers and I am all screwed up.... I could understand if I had really large feet but size 13 D should present no problem.
#50
06-09-2010, 08:55 AM
If removing CDV would solve this annoying thing, I'll go for it!
#51
06-10-2010, 10:13 AM
I wouldn't say having the Omnipower CMC necessarily solves bucking. It allows feeling the clutch engagement point so you can properly slip the clutch. However, the throttle is still Drive By Wire, and the ECU tends to keep RPMs up during shifts for emissions control. Depending on how the throttle is pressed or not pressed during the shift, you can make the ECU allow RPMs to drop faster...and force the ECU to allow faster smooth shifts.
I'm still not conscious of exactly what I do, but can shift smoothly and I suppose fast, about 80% of the time now. Still, I need to get back to the mountains for some further experimentation with the current pedal distance since my commute is short.
To eliminate the RPM smoothing requires reprogramming the ECU. This link might be of interest on work in progress on the reprogramming the ECU (but not for this):
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-...ibilities.html
It's likely too dangerous to actually daily drive a modified ECU. Considering Honda's and a modern engine's typical tolerances, I'd expect long term engine damage (from excess lean conditions) without it.
I'm still not conscious of exactly what I do, but can shift smoothly and I suppose fast, about 80% of the time now. Still, I need to get back to the mountains for some further experimentation with the current pedal distance since my commute is short.
To eliminate the RPM smoothing requires reprogramming the ECU. This link might be of interest on work in progress on the reprogramming the ECU (but not for this):
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-...ibilities.html
It's likely too dangerous to actually daily drive a modified ECU. Considering Honda's and a modern engine's typical tolerances, I'd expect long term engine damage (from excess lean conditions) without it.
#54
07-28-2010, 11:36 PM
The Omnipower is supposed to be compatible with both and more with the spacer and line adapter. 02-06 RSX & Type-S 02-06 Integra Type-R 02-05 EP3 Civic, & Si Also, considering how relatively small Honda is and how much they like to reuse parts, I suspect you would be able to use a non-CDV OEM part off another model. However, I remember reading that most/all newer Hondas have CDVs including the RSX, etc. There might be a master cylinder with the CDV not in the MC on another of their model year 2002+ vehicles, so research.
#56
05-06-2011, 02:01 AM
240sx have a similar valve inbetween the mast cyl and the slave cyl. so if i used a mast cyl off a 240 i would delete the cdv the only problem is idk the fits mast cyl so idk how it bolts up can some 1 take a pic of one not installed?
#58
05-06-2011, 08:11 PM
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-...tml#post866424
Likewise a photo of the original Honda MC with integrated-CDV is already in this thread.
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-...tml#post861825
#59
05-07-2011, 11:29 AM
ya 240= easy but omni power= $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
i like easy and not expensive
and the photos are too zoomed in can some1 take a pick oh the cyl where it touchs the firewall and where the threads are for the bolts
Last edited by fitisbamf; 05-07-2011 at 11:31 AM.