I'm not going to complain about the mileage issue for the U.S. model. I'm currently driving a 2003 Chevy Cavalier that gets about 25 in the city, so this Fit will be a big improvement over that. I do have one question though. Why is it that the 1.5 liter Japan/EU version gets 48/mpg highway whereas the U.S. model only does 38/mpg highway with a similar-sized engine? Could someone please explain this?

 

Read this article. It will answer a lot of question about the US market VTEC and the IDSI engine found in other markets.
http://asia.vtec.net/Series/FitJazz/lseries/index.html

 

Okay,

I read the article, so thanks for the technical data. However, I'm still confused over why the North American Fit is getting the "old" V-TEC engine whereas the rest of the world gets this "new" L-Series engine. I've heard some people speculate that its in regard to Honda USA not wanting to interfere with sales of current models. Is there any weight to that claim, or is there another reason? My hunch is that the other V-TEC engine is already certified for U-LEV II and other tough emissions certifications. Is the L-Series engine not qualified for those? Thanks for the patience with my motoring ignorance, but I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to cars.

 

Both the dsi and VTEC motors are L-Series just different heads! A B-Series motor doesn't fit because of the small size of the engine bay.

 

However, do be aware that WongKN (the author of that excellent article) is doing an update of it very soon because he has found out there are a number of technical changes on the US/Canadian-market L15A VTEC engine compared to the L15A VTEC engine used in JDM/Southeast Asian Fit/Jazz models. The changes are likely due to the use of the five-speed automatic and the need to accommodate 87 pump octane gasoline commonly used in the USA.

 

US 87 octane is no worse than Australian 91RON fuel which the Jazz VTEC is rated to use here just different Octane rating system used. The Jazz is Japan is rated for 95RON because thats the lowest grade fuel there.

The US drive by wire improves fuel economy, responsiveness and emissions. This is why despite extra weight from the additional safety features the US Fit is rated for the same fuel economy as the 1.5L VTEC Jazz overseas (not to be confused with the fuel economy of the dsi engines of the same or lower capacities). VTEC engine is not sold in a lot of countries including Europe and the UK.

I expect the US 5 speed auto to improve upon the sub 9sec 0-100km/hr times of the CVT.

 

I'm not sure if this is overlooking the obvious, but if you convert 38 mpg in U.S. gallons (why does anyone still use U.S. gallons???), to Imperial or UK gallons, you get 45.6 mpg UK. Or just say 6.2 l/100 km, because there's no confusion there

 

Excellent point - keep driving it home!

 

I think that netghst1 was wondering why the 1.5L Vtec Fit sold in Japan is rated at 20km/L or 5 l/100 km while the one coming to NA is rated at 16.5km/L or 6.25 l/100km.

I think the reason is weight and gearing. I don't think its that bad though.

 

The VTEC Fit in Japan is NOT rated to those figures. The i-dsi version however is.

Remember the i-dsi is also sold in 1.2L, 1.3L-1.4L and 1.5L variants which all have different ratings. The VTEC only comes in 1.5L and is not available in a lot of countries worldwide.

When the Fit was initially released in Japan in 2001 the VTEC version was not offered.

The 1.5L VTEC sold in Australia since 2002 is made in Japan and is identical in engine and transmission to that sold in the JDM such that the fuel economy is also identical. It is not and has never been 5L/100km for the VTEC engine with either the 5 speed manual or 7 speed CVT. This economy is attainable in the real world with the 1.5L VTEC on the highway but is not the offical government figures or Honda figures from Japan or Australia just as it may well be attainable in the real world in the US but are not the offical figures.

Honda fuel economy and power figures are often conservative unlike a lot of other manufacturers. They underquote and overdeliver like all good engineers.

 

Hi vividjazz

Actually the Japanese market Vtec 1.5L Fit is rated at 20.5 km/l*(cvt) and 19.4 km/l (manual) (~46mpg) for the base model (A) with 14" wheels and without the sunroof. The Sport 1.5L with 15" wheels is rated 18.6 km/l (cvt), 18.8 km/l (manual) (~44mpg). The 1.5L i-dsi engine is no longer an option in the Fit in Japan.

I realize that the 20.5 km/l figures are based on the Japanese fuel economy testing methods (many highways in and around Tokyo have 80 km/hr speed limits) and not directly comparable to the testing method used for the Australian market. The JDM figures are slightly higher than the AVERAGE fuel economy numbers listed on the Australian Honda site 6.0-6.1 l/100km or 16.5 km/l or 39mpg.

But I think netghst1 originally asked for reasons why the US Version Fit's mileage differed from overseas models. If you average the estimated 33 city, 38 highway numbers of the NA Fit you have an average 35.5 mpg. Which is lower than the posted Austalian Honda 39mpg/6.1 l/100km or Japanese Honda 44mpg/ 5.3 l/100km.

I still think there is a decrease in fuel economy and it is due in part to higher curb weight and shorter gearing of the transmission.

Cheers

The Japanese spec sheet is located here
I also uploaded a small version of the sheet, the FE numbers are on the last row. Sorry its in Japanese.



パワフルで低燃費！ 最高出力〈ネット値〉：81kW［110PS］/5,800rpm
最大トルク〈ネット値〉：143N・m［14.6kg・m］/4,800rpm ゆとりのパワーで街中も高速もスムーズな「VTECエンジン」。 街中では扱いやすく、高速道路ではクルマの流れにスムーズに乗れる、パワフルな走りのVTECエンジン。ハ イブリッドカーのインサイトおよびi-DSIエンジンの低燃費技術を活用し、エンジンのさらなる高効率燃焼を追求。20.5km/L※2の低燃費も実現しています。 ※2 数値はFF（1.5A、自動無段変速モード時。15インチアルミホイール装着車を除く）。10・15モード 走行燃料消費率（国土交通省審査値）。

 

They only have a combined figure now in Australia but there is a big difference real world between city and highway rates. While getting 5l/100km highway only getting about 8.2l/100km city. If we convert these figures thats 28.6MPG (US) city which is worse than the 33MPG (US) city quoted for the US.

My point is the milage is no worse than the rest of the world for the same engine in the US and if anything may even be better with the drive by wire throttle despite extra weight and better emissions controls.

Top speed in Japan on the expressways is only 80km/hr. City driving speeds are usually around 30-40km/hr so the better fuel economy is understandable. You'll get the same fuel economy in the US if you also drive like that but you probably won't live that long to find out, likewise here in Australia.

Everyone usually gets worse than the offical fuel economy figures in Australia and likewise from what I understand of the US EPA figures. I imagine its just the same for the Japanese figures too.

The car is very fuel efficient for something weighing over 1,000kg and producing 81kw.

My old Suzuki Swift GTi only returned 10km per litre weighing around 850kg and producing 74kw and it certainly didn't have the safety or the emissions controls of the Jazz.

 

Wow,

This thread seems to have gotten a bit more complicated than when I last looked at it. I'm satisfied with the answers given. The consensus seems to be that a combination of added weight from extra standard equipment, gearing ratios, and the difference between U.S. and Imperial gallons accounts for the difference. There is an awful lot of division on this fuel-economy subject. Isn't it safe to say that anything really less than 50 MPG is doing a disservice to the economy, the environment, and the global political situation?

The fact to me seems that until consumers really demand change from the major manufacturers (Asian, American, and European), collectively we won't see any significant changes. As climate change and air quality are major concerns across many urban areas (regardless of country) retuning a gearbox or shedding a few extra pounds are only minimal fixes to a long term problem.

Granted, manufacturers have done some things to improve, but the Fit is really more of the same. While some in this forum may gripe about it saying this model or that model Honda from 10-15 years ago got better mileage, they are a vocal minority. That extra few hundred dollars in your pocket at the end of the year doesn't add up to much if major manufacturers continue to make gas-guzzlers that a major segment of U.S. consumers buy. A major change in fuel economy won't come until a critical mass of people (not a vocal minority) demand collective action to change the way cars are made on a fundamental level. Unfortunately, it seems that economics will drive this and not enlightened self-interest (i.e. gasoline at $4/gallon versus proactive legislation).

Anyway, that's my rant.

 

netghst1,

I think technology will come to the rescue of gas guzzlers.

Perhaps the biggest breakthrough is homogeneous charge compression ignition (HCCI), where the engine compresses the air-fuel mixture of gasoline so high that gasoline will self-ignite without a spark plug. Honda has been working on such a engine for many years and they've said the company is on the verge of a major breakthrough that could make it commercially viable to build an HCCI engine for automobiles.

Essentially, an HCCI engine offers fuel economy slightly better than even a diesel engine, but without the attendant problems of high NOx output and diesel particulate output. We're talking the possibility of a 30 percent improvement in fuel economy over today's gasoline engines!

 

If the fit that will be sold in NA has different drive ratios it should be possible to change the ratios in some manner. Maybe by using taller tires or actually changing the final drive gear in the transmission. I know that the tire size change would have effects on ride and handling and proper funtion of the speedometer. It may even be possible to get a complete transmission with the taller gears. These would be a ways to increase MPG. Does any of you have information about the aspects of these changes? It seems that most of the posts in Fit Trix concern higher performance mods. Has anyone done any higher MPG mods?

 

Consumers also demand safety, and a certain amount of power and amenities. It would be quite easy for the engineers to develope a 50mpg car. It just wouldn't sell. There are fuel mileage competitions all over the world, and many of those vehicles achieve much better than 50mpg, but who is going to buy a balsa wood tub on wheels with no a/c or ipod compatibility? (I know that's an oversimplification, it was done for emphasis).

The world will not run out of oil tomorrow, and we are not going to choke on sulphurus emissions in our sleep tonight (although growing up downwind of Akron, OH, the rubber capital of the world, in the 60's, there were many nights I thought I might). It will be a gradual process driven by economics, and most likely hindered by governments. The Fit, and cars like it, are steps in the right direction, but eutopia will not arrive in our lifetimes. Hopefully, our children and theirs will continue the work.

 

"Essentially, an HCCI engine offers fuel economy slightly better than even a diesel engine, but without the attendant problems of high NOx output and diesel particulate output. We're talking the possibility of a 30 percent improvement in fuel economy over today's gasoline engines!"

Well, the Japanese and European manufacturers have repeatedly shown that for 95% of folks - and this includes North America - a max 1.5l engine is more than sufficient to meet almost all their commuting/travelling needs.

I'm sure the Japanese and Europeans would use this technological advantage to further increase the average fuel economy of their fleets. If there are no negative points regarding power generation with such a system - and if it's Honda doing the engineering, then we can be certain that they are definitely looking into that side of things - then we would have the best of both worlds: even more powerfull smaller displacement engines with increased fuel economy.

I don't want to be too simplistic, but IMO if Ford and GM poured their resources into such (typically far-sighted) R & D instead of Marketing, they wouldn't be in such a financial mess.

 

Interesting you mention this because both Ford and GM have active HCCI engine programs going on right now. This could result in new gasoline engines for pickup trucks and SUV's with 30% better fuel efficiency, which could especially give new life to GM's newly-introduced truck/SUV platform.