Begging your pardon.
Not meaning any ill will, speaking for anyone else or wanting to put words in anyone's mouth.
PM is off to you regarding all this.

In regards to my NorthStar - what's to be said. It was, most likely, the most progressive domestic engine produced in it's day. I knew nothing of it, and as I do with every 'new' car I acquire I try to learn as much about them as possible.

Since investing in an i-Vtech I've learned a bit more about my old Cadillac. As good as it was, the systems in my FIT far surpass its technology in my mind. A simple knock-sensor is replaced with an intelligent ECU and variable timing that can optimize a power curve to match a higher octain.

WOT in the FIT is quite laughable when compared to a NorthStar WOT.
Imagine placing the shifter in second gear then stomping the petal to the medal opening the barn door on 275 horses and holding it till it just about hits 8Krpm then completely letting off on the accelerator. Back pressure along with the screaming rpm's blows out the carbon build-up typical in high performance engines that never get exercised.

More fun that anyone should be able to have... not to say a 65mph 5th gear down shift in my little FIT isn't fun, guess, as with many things, it's all relevant.

peace
K_C_

 

thank you very much for your wonderful help DiamondStarMonster....
sorry for taking so long to reply to your questions?:

Some of you are so smart, already find out my car is an automatic
thank you to those who answer for me.

I do not know how to use cardboard to block air flowing over the radiator.

What is ethanol blended gas? I fill up the tank with the #89 fuel in Canada
because this is the least expensive grade

I don't know re-gapping spark plugs

I don't know how to reset the ECU

I don't use cruise control option, maybe the most is 5% of the time

There are lots of hills in my area

my driving pattern is like 90 city and 10% in the last 2 months

There are lots of stop lights each trip.

hope I answer some of your questions

thanks again!

 

Heres some info to help ecoENERGY for Personal Vehicles

 

SB comes through again! You know I'm beginning to understand your persistence. I'm also buying into the premium fuel thing, however, I'm convinced that driving style has a whole lot more to do with good MPG's - well at least it's the foundation to fuel economy.

For an average driver like me, who bought a Honda FIT for the economy factor, it's the one thing I can effectively do - drive it like it wants to be driven. I haven't tricked the mechanics out in any way. And I've also not babied my FIT. I have learned to not be heavy on the gas pedal and drive consistently.

alanchan given your driving profile I can understand the low MPG's. It's the stop and go that's killing you. This summer I took my FIT down to Florida. Spent a week on the east coast then another on the west coast. Flat as a pancake, but stop and go urban sprawl. Lights every 1/4mile but not a hill in sight - really. My MPG, which averages 37-38 around home dropped to 31-32 down in Florida. If there were hills and cold winter to deal with it would have been worse.

I would again suggest getting a few open road driving under your belt. A road trip once a week to get some miles on it and give the ECU time to get to know you. Sounds crazy, but I'm a believer in Honda technology.

 

I drive a lot so I am more sensitive to this, I use premium because it saves me money in the long run. I also like the way it the motor runs on it. So it could save money you money too, but your driving style is set for regular and time is needed for the adjustment. If I drove 45-50 mph my SG says I am getting over 60 mpg in this cold temps. The bad mpg is caused by cold weather, short trips. Premium would cause the motor to run leaner but not as good as in the summer. My v6 van gets better mpg than some of the people in their Fits. I get 25 mpg in the winter and fully loaded driving to D.C. I got 27 plus, thats 3 mpg better than the sticker at 70 mph for 700 miles.

I drive around 63-70mph and get 40 in the summer and 35-37 in the winter, but stop and go brings that down to 32-36. I had a spell there with Klasse/Act getting 27 mpg with no reason. At 70 mph the air is cold going past the MAF sensor causing it to add more fuel. That why my mpg is down overall. Fuel parameters Look at the fuel correction for cold up to 14 percent maf, and another 7-30 percent until engine is warm. Thats why short trips and cold weather are the two major things for bad mpg.

The conversation we had before about the vtec activating and cleaning the 4th valve, because under 3400 rpms only 3 valve are working. Reving the motor past 3400 should be done once a week, but not recommended in extreme cold.

 

Well with 90% city driving and lots of stop lights gas mileage will suffer considerably.

Every time you have to come to a stop you have to overcome inertia and accelerate again. And when you have to do this every few blocks you end up using a ton of fuel.

Especially in the winter when you have high electrical loads, less than ideal ambient conditions and from what I can find on the internet about fuel in vancouver your 89 octane is made with 10% ethanol. The premium grades like 91 and 93 do not. premium gas also has top cylinder lubricants and other detergents. So you shouldn't just think of it as gas. It is comparable to adding fuel injector cleaner and lube to the engine constantly, and in my opinion is worth the price difference because it is not just fuel to burn at that point. It is like another form of routine maintenance.

The Ethanol is an alcohol and it doesn't like cold weather. It is also less energy dense. It is not something to use when looking for mileage. But it is a great racing fuel! Which is not quite what you want.

It does not atomize well when cold and it takes more spark energy to ignite because it is very stable.

You could see an easy 5-7% mileage increase by buying non ethanol premium like 91 or 93 oct.

When I mentioned blocking the radiator with cardboard it applied more towards people who do a lot of highway miles because at speed there is lots of air flowing over the radiator cooling the engine off faster, and in the winter this can often bring you below "ideal" operating temperature, but in city driving you can still block part of your radiator because it will aid in faster warmer up as well as keep more heat in the engine bay which helps atomization and overall efficiency.

Switching to colder plugs will also go well with the 91 or 93 octane gas because it will basically act like you have even better fuel. You will be able to start the burn sooner with greater spark advance and potentially run leaner. So you will get more out of every combustion event using less fuel.

You can run leaner because you have not only improved the fuel but you have cooled a hot spot in the combustion chamber, so the added fuel that would be used to cool things off and slow the reaction is no longer necessary.

So now you only burn what you need to move.

But the computer will need to take its time in relearning the new variables introduced.

To cut this time down significantly you can reset the ECU by unplugging the battery for 10-15 minutes, or touching the leads that run from the car together when unplugged for 10-20 seconds.

You don't need to use your cruise control, but if you are mindful about how often and how much you use the gas pedal that can go a long way in improving fuel economy as well.

Try and be consistent and provide as little throttle adjustment as possible.

Now the above suggestions will help, and you will see a bump in fuel efficiency, but the biggest change you could do is change your commute route if possible.

Traffic and stop lights are going to kill mileage. At a stop light or bumper to bumper you are getting zero miles per gallon.

At idle with the heater, head lights, defroster, radio and any other accessories turned on you can burn as much as half a kilo of fuel per hour just standing still.

And when you are starting and stopping this rate increases dramatically.

Try gliding up to stoplights and try to time it so you never stop rolling. Try and safely carry your speed through corners so you don't have to re accelerate as much.

Inflating your tires properly and regularly changing your oil helps as well.

The hills are your other major enemy. We do not have a whole lot of torque in our Fits, so there is nothing we can do about this except use a lower gear at higher revs instead of lugging it in a higher gear at lower revs. Building a little extra speed before climbing the hill helps too.

Hope that all makes sense!

Let us know how it goes!

 

Another great post here sir! We need more people like u here on fitfreak!

I think alan's got the same problem as ffaceoff. I really hope ffaceoff will use the direction I suggested to go to work. And block half side of the radiator if possible.

Cars are made & bought to be driven, not to leave in the garage.

 

That's about right for what I've noticed since they started putting the ethanol in the lower grades. However, the price difference between the ultra premium and regular fuel (standard premium also contains the same amount of ethanol at my station) is still greater than the higher fuel consumption. So I'll be sticking to 87.

 

I don't know how many GVA FIT owners are putting in #91 gas
it cost me $42 for a full tank of #87
I think it can go up to $50 if I use higher grade
is it really worth doing in Vancouver, BC, Canada?
maybe our US buddies don't know our gas prices are way too high!!
someone got to do something in Canada to keep it down.

 

Ouch $42? Thats like a half tank of race gas down here! I buy a 5 gallon can of 118oct toluene for like 35+tax...

So that may not be worth it for you, unless mileage goes up significantly. So your call, maybe do the math over a few tanks. If you are going from #87 with ethanol to #91 or #93 with no ethanol it could work out in your favor in the long run.

Everything else posted above will still help though.

 

I'm thinking that the rate of exchange between Canadian and U.S. dollars must be increasing greatly... The fuel prices here are about $2.40, about $0.25 more than a month ago.... I'm still thinking about getting some motorized bicycle kits.

 

Coyote that's a greenback cheaper than we're paying in up-state NY. Who's getting all the money, not the retailer. Up here a bunch goes to taxes.

Here's all you need for your bike project Electric Drill

 

Interesting posts, DiamondStarMonsters, thanks... I would be interested in doing some back to back tests with different gasolines but I think to do it right would be a lot of time and money

 

The quickest and cheapest way to perform a test like this with tangible results and no fancy equipment would be to run your last tank of whatever you normally use as low as possible.

In the past I have actually drained the tank but that is often a hassle, dangerous and a general waste of time.

So try and wait as long as is safe then go fill up with the highest octane fuel conveniently available.

When you get home, per the manual disconnect your battery for 15 minutes or so.

Then reconnect your battery and go about your normal driving routines for say 3 tanks of premium taking notes of mileage and performance.

After your last tank of premium is up, fill up with regular 87oct.

The first few times you get on the gas you will FEEL the engine pull timing and enriching the mixture, you might even experience real knock/pre-det and briefly see a CEL.

Then when you get home after now that you have your first fill up on 87, reset your ECU once more and repeat the driving routines you did while noting mileage and performance.

Because of how many factors determine your specific fuel economy you may find no significant benefit or you will see a tangible advantage to premium. Everything from weather, load, engine health and driver input can make for wild deviations in results.

This is not perfect experiment by any means obviously, but if you wanted to really see a difference a third trial with something like 100oct unleaded would allow you to use the most aggressive timing and fuel tables available in the ECU.

But in general, premium fuel allows for a more efficient, consistent and powerful combustion. Counter-intuitive for some, but an efficient engine and a high performance engine are not mutually exclusive.

So the same reasons premium can allow for more power out of a given displacement it also gives the ECU the ability to run a tune best optimized for economy.

Meaning that it can run safe even when very lean with lots of timing.

Leaner means less fuel is needed to achieve the same output, and more timing means that more power can be made from the same charge and because the combustion is started sooner it allows the flame front to propagate and expand for longer. This creates more torque, and horsepower is derived from torque over time.

So the same amount of power from less fuel would be better economy yes? And then as well when you can make more power from the same fuel mass, that is more efficient.

 

Thanks for the advice

If you are going to run the tank with the last drop of gas, you should carry a portable gas container in the trunk, just in case - you never know when it will run out.

Also, if you disconnect the battery, do you need to re-enter the radio signal code?

thanks

 

Great point on carrying a gas can when intentionally running the tank down.

And yes when you reset the ECU, you will need your radio code!

After the test you may find better fuel economy on premium, but only you can determine if any mileage gain makes it worthwhile to run premium v. regular.

It will be harder to determine if the costs are staggered in a way where over the long run you break even or find that premium gains or not is too expensive.

Or simply if you don't live in a climate or drive in a manner that would see benefit from better fuel.

Fuel economy can be kind of a black art when it comes to individual cars.

Even between identical cars in identical conditions you can see distinctly different results.

So, as the saying goes your mileage may vary. Find what works for you!

It may be that you are already doing everything you can. Its a complex topic!

 

Very cool, might be worth trying sometime. The main thing I'd wonder about is whether each tank would be consistent enough driving to make this kind of test worthwhile. I suppose doing the same exact route for each tank would be good, but that's starting to get a bit time and money consuming.

As for carrying some extra gas, I can attest to that being a good idea! In 10 years of owning my previous car I never ran out of gas, but within a month of owning the Fit, I ran out on the highway. Doh...

 

That is one of the tough parts of diagnosing and resolving fuel economy issues.

So like when I am tuning for performance, when I aim to figure out how to best get good mileage I use the same routes, the same gas station.. even the same pump when available!

Checking tire pressure and spark plugs along the way, while monitoring everything with a datalogger.

This way I can sort of account for weather and fuel changes during the test period.