???

I was soo enjoying this thread. What happened?

 

Well a few people are waiting on direct correspondence with Sprintex which would be ideal.

I am waiting on some pics and descriptions from a JDM GE owner in the hopes we can Frankenstein the majority of the kit... but that route obviously wouldn't be for everyone.

So if anyone in that region wants to post some pics of the front case of the engine and some lower manifold bolt pattern pics that would go a long way.

I would REALLY like to see blown Fits on the street become common.

Once these start showing up in complete kit or Frankenstein form, and someone wants to swing my way and twin-charge it... we could have a real monster on our hands.

I am currently helping a couple turbo GD owners get parts together for +250whp goals, but only one of them is in the US at the moment.

A turbo + roots-type Fit would have a table top shaped torque curve and be just the best possible combination besides a compound turbo system..

Not only that but thanks to the turbo providing positive blower inlet pressure it would actually return power to the crank through the S/C pulley, allowing the whole system to run yet more efficiently, and help negate some of the disadvantages to a belt driven supercharger in a way that couldn't be replicated with the Rotrex traction drive. Only with a roots type.

 

I'm sure Sprintex is well aware of the enthusiast demand for a US version of their S/C. But they probably won't reply to direct email contact with a consumer, or at least to a very specific question regarding a product that is not yet for sale. They probably won't give any one of us a direct answer if they haven't already covered it in a press statement. So it's just a hurry up and wait situation. Sprintex implied as much in their press comments - that a kit will be offered in the Australian and US markets... they just didn't give a time frame commitment.

What I'm hoping for is that a rep from their company will start a vendor thread for us so we can get the strait scoop from a fitment angle. Depending on where they do their USDM development, they could have more mules lined up than they need just by talking about it in the FitFreak forum. If nothing else, they would quickly find out where their first 50 kits will be sold!

 

id buy an fi kit but everyone uses 5th injector = fail

 

Okay because this thread has remained polite and on topic.. I 'd like you to explain this youtube comment and provide your technical reasoning for it.. Bear in mind I am using a 5th injector on my throttle body elbow for water and methanol. Current setup is 4x 1450cc/min main injectors on the rail and 1x 675cc/min injector fed by a 150psi alcohol pump controlled by a progressive injection computer. I will be adding another meth injector as well. I am not going to say why yet, but I'll let you tell us all why that is "fail"

 

I too hesitate a bit when i see the 5th injector. not because of the injector itself but it leads me to believe they are using some weak method of fuel managment. At best, they are just saving on the cost of the kit. Could be wrong of course but that is definitely a standard fuel injector pictured there. Why not just upgrade 4 injectors to something reasonable rather than add a 5th pre SC injector. It's not like water meth where you have to inject the mixture somewhere prior to the sc or tb. Has anyone got confirmation on what they are using for fuel and ignition managment? I'm

 

I keep typing up a response, click submit and it gets wiped so heres attempt number three.. my formatting has been off too lately, no matter which browser I use.

Anywho, a 5th injector at the throttle body or pre-compressor has advantages even on a non-boosted engine, as long as the fuel is colder than the IAT's which it usually is, unless the engine has been running for so long that the fuel from the rail going back to the return line has heated up the fuel in the tank. I have a -6AN fuel cooler mounted inline for this purpose.

But on a boosted appication the advantages are much more obvious.

Even a regular injector mounted post intercooler on the throttlebody can go a long way in cooling the charge allowing for more air to enter the engine, at the same time it is reducing chances of knock and helping bring the IDCs of your other injectors down.

Even if you are just using the primary fuel (gas in this case) you still have a similar effect to water and/or methanol. It still takes heat out of the charge, while also taking up physical space which means the compressor doesn't have to work as hard to create boost.

In the case of the Sprintex, the S/C is mounted to the intake so there is really no room for anything but a custom Water/Air IC core. So the cheap and just as effective (when done properly) solution is to mount a pre-compressor nozzle.

This is far more effective than a IC in some cases because compressors multiply the inlet air temperature. So the colder the intake air, the better.

This pre-compressor injection is a world apart from traditional injection at the throttle body.

Which is why I intend to do both to complement my Air/Air intercooler. One nozzle pre-turbo, big intercooler core, then a nozzle at the throttle body allows me to get away with much higher boost pressures and thus more air.

The same concept applies to the Sprintex, and in fact in terms of wear and tear on the compressor it is "safer" to go the pre-compressor route on a roots type than on a Turbo or a Rotrex as the speeds the rotors reach is far slower than that of a centrifugal compressor wheel so there is less corrosion or physical wear from the friction of fluid contacting the wheel.

I have more pump and injector than I would need on my primary fuel system even if I switched to E98, this was done on purpose.

So in addition to that I have a seperate pump, fuel tank, and injector for the meth system all controlled by a snow performance progressive injection computer.. which Goobers can now attest to as wel, since he was at my house yesterday when we were taking a look at his new Swift springs.

Even on comparably crappy EMS's a 5th injector can still be executed properly.

On compound or staged-turbo systems often there is just an injector and a hot pipe between the turbos and then between the secondary turbo and the intake manifold, often for space constraints and because one well placed injector can do the job of a decent Air/Air intercooler.

For reference the air temperatures at the outlet of a given turbo or supercharger can be as high as 250-400*F, so when you have no intercooler for it to pass through before the 250*F air enters the second turbo you need some serious cooling so the air leaving the second turbo doesn't come out north of 500*F

Blah. There was supposed to be more but it kept getting deleted, if I left anything out or need to clarify please let me know!

 

Good post..... as usual when you don't make me have to strain my brain to make sure I've got it all straight..... It's cool that Goobers and you met in person, wish I could have been there with you guys.

 

He's a cool guy, installed his Swifts himself and he put up with me being late to meet up. Got stuck in my normal sunday routine haha

As soon as time and funds allow I definitely intend to be in TX again sometime in the next 18 months.

I'd like to meet you, Hayden, and really any other Texas FF guys when I am down there for the Texas Mile.

Besides I need to stop in Amarillo again and take another rest-stop at the steak house!

 

Amarillo is nearly in Kansas or Colorado and the weather extremes are insane... Do you really think you can eat that 64 ounce steak? From where you will be for the Texas Mile to there is about as far as I am from Chicago... Taking the most direct route you can is going to take you through some very monotonous terrain with very few roads and little in the way of civilization... The change in altitude is something like 4000 feet.... Doing the drive in your car would probably be a bigger challenge than doing the Texas Mile..... Do it, take photos and write an article and have it featured in an automotive publication... I'm starting to like the idea... The sunsets on the High Plains are truly awesome and I am not using the word awesome lightly like talking about JDM gear shift knobs.

 

I'm somewhat stupified here. I just never imagined that there was a significantly greater cooling effect from fuel alone. At least not enough to cool iats by more than a degree or too. This calls for more research.

I think part of it might just be from the irrational paranoia I developed of fuel falling out of suspension in the manifold from my NAAWWWZZZZ days. Those videos of hoods blowing off really scar you for life. Besides we never really discussed the cooling effect of fuel back then since frequently the n20 would get you into the negatives on it's own (which sometimes cause problems of it's own).




EDIT: Further research reveals little useful information. Just alot of flame wars on a lot of forums. I'm just going to go ahead and trust dsm on this one. It's not exactly like you've ever given us bad info. Heh heh I just like reading up on these things when possible.

 

Remember how I said a lot of this stuff went over my head?

It still does!

That was the first time I've seen (up close) a car being put together, cool stuff.

 

You know, it's almost getting warm enough to plan a meet. I'm still leaning towards a Portillos. I'm sure I can get one of them to write off on it if I promise we buy noms from them.

 

I was just looking at the site, and while I've heard about this Mile over the years, I've never been. Maybe this year my brother and I could check it out. Who wouldn't want to see all kinds of cars being pushed to insane limits? Seriously.

 

I think what really impresses me about this kit is that they actually made a custom manifold for it. Prior to this if anyone ever told me someone was making a roots kit, I would have expected them to just adapt the roots output to a charge pipe and then plumb that up to the stock manifold. Something like this:



So needless to say I do think it's really cool that they did make a direct bolt on manifold for it. Then again with the charge pipe adapter, an IC would be an option. But god knows how one would fit the blower, adapter, stock intake manifold, and piping all under the hood.

 

Wow how did I miss all this.. so much catching up to do.. FitFreak has been acting weird for me lately.

Atleast my HTML skills and such work now..

 

Last time I was there I had just had dental surgery a few days prior, but I was determined to at least take on the 2lb steak and all the fixin's... and somehow I managed, maybe if I starve myself on the ride down.. still a pretty tall order. But I figure I am a pretty big guy (6'4 285lbs) maybe I've got a shot?

This is a test I've devised to push my practical and theoretical knowledge to the limit. The limit being whatever the tech certification allows me to do... I do not have the funds to bag a 200mph badge yet, I have the power... but not the aero or safety gear.

The one time I ran out 5th gear the front end started to float around 165mph with a couple thousand rpm to go and I had to let off. But the car was pulling like a train all the way through 165 I just got uncomfortable with the way it felt.

I only need ~530whp to hit 200mph with the Laser I can do that on pump gas. I have enough turbo and fuel system to support another 100whp over that.

I thoroughly enjoyed my last couple trips to Texas. It truly is beautiful in some spots, but as you mentioned others can be a war of endurance when driving through.


I am gathering some materials and such on this topic for you. I wouldn't ever try to pass on bad information!


You should give yourself some credit, you certainly seemed to know what was going on for the most part, you even recognized some of the tables I showed you on the lap top when I fired up the car to show you how I track the sweeps through the cells!

Most people just look at me like this:

 

It's kind of a roots, looks like a roots but better on the inside...

 

Mmm Portillos! Let me know when and where! I will try my damndest to be there... and on time this go around!

It is a trip. There are now a whole fleet of cars shooting for the 250mph mark.

I only need ~530whp to get to 200mph, some of these cars need 1200+ whp to get up to 250mph in the span of a mile.

I am picking the TX Mile first because they don't seem to be as anal about the safety certifications. I only want to do 150-175mph on my first trip out.

Some of these guys going for 250mph at TX, and I won't name names.. are only using a helmet and a roll bar.

Maybe their giant balls will deploy in the event of an emergency...

 

That is a slick little blower!

What does that belong to? Tell me you are secretly stealing my idea for a twincharged Fit

You are right though, there are advantages to both, and in the case of Sprintex, they have space constraints to tend to.

Which is where that pre-compressor injector comes in handy.

You can find more info by going to the websites for AEM, Snow Performance, or Devils Own. Diesel Forums are a great place for this as well.

I have a few other resources for anyone who is interested but that will have to be done in PM because they are private and I do not have permission to publicly distribute or share just in case, but because none of us will be competing on the level with those guys we can use it on our individual street cars, or at least a variation... you'll see what I mean if/when we cross that bridge.

There is a lot of stuff that I am constantly wanting to share on these forums but I am not allowed. SilverBullet has gotten to see the "Vaults" for instance, but that is on the condition that he shares it with no one

Also Diesel guys and old school pilots know it as "Wet Compression" and you can use almost any fuel or even just plain water for it.

Diesel guys also refer to compounded turbos as "twins".. so there's that terminology to contend with.

Here's what my current meth nozzle setup looks like, I also have the IAT mounted before (upstream) so I don't spray the sensor (My MAP is plumbed post TB because I am running Speed Density):