ROLFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF....... midnite drag race time..

 

The 20w50 is a good idea in a turbo car in a hot climate where you expect to drive hard. Just remember a thicker oil can take longer to heat up, so be mindful of warm up before you drive hard!

Honda's OE ATF fluid is good stuff, they have a new version out now as well. Redline and AMSOIL also make good ATF.

Brake Torquing is something you don't want to do unless you have a converter that is capable of doing it repeatedly, because it puts a lot of stress on the fluid converter and this causes lots of heat and can lead to premature failure.

Revving and dropping the car in gear on an auto is not the same as doing it on a manual and you risk big problems.

I watched a kid do just that at a drive through over the summer and he didn't make it two feet before his transmission literally blew out sending metal pieces and a couple quarts of fluid everywhere

 

No. specs won't cover 200 hp much less 250.

 

+ rep on a cool build!

 

soooo horrible if my trans blew out like that...
i will never do that againnnnn.....

ok i'll always warming up my car for several minutes....
i always remember your word...i put my trust in you dsm..

so if brake-torque or revving the car is bad for my trans what must i do when take a start in city car drag race?

but dsm say yes..
who is true now?

 

mahout is right in that the trans is not specified for 200hp by Honda.

It is attached to a 100hp engine, so why would they over do the trans that much?

That doesn't mean you can't do it. Just not intended for it. But there are plenty of turbo GDs and a few GEs in your part of the world... not all of them are manual I would bet, have you heard of anyone breaking an auto trans? I've been looking and can't find any!

What it is going to come down to is your dedication to inspecting and changing the fluid and performing the maintenance in the service manual on a severe service duty schedule.

So the habits of the driver, the maintenance, tune and environment are going to make or break you chances for a long transmission life.

If you are careful about the above there is no reason why it cannot handle the power when you decide you want to use it. Just make things are inspected and then allowed to warm up before hard driving.
However if there are groups in your region of the world offering parts for the auto trans like a limited slip diff, torque converters, valvebodies (shift kits) or end clutches then that is what I would be saving my money for after you are done with the turbo setup.

Whoever tunes the car should make sure to pull timing during and immediately after gearshifts to help with shock loads on the transmission.

A transmission temperature gauge would be a good idea, so you will know if things are too cold to drive hard or if things are too hot from driving too hard.

They usually are not expensive and you should be able to mount the temperature sensor somewhere on either the transmission its' self or on one of the lines leading from the transmission to the ATF cooler.

The trick is to not launch from a stop and to not spin the wheels or "wheelhop" when you are trying to go fast. Remember "spinning ain't winning"

Some good tires on lightweight wheels, harder motor mounts, chassis bracing bars and some suspension work will go a long way to helping not only keep your drivetrain healthy but it will allow you to put more power to the ground when you need it!

Now I have not ever heard of someone destroying a Fit transmission auto or manual. And engineers for OE applications, especially Honda and Toyota, tend to build a large margin for error into the drive train.

On many different cars I have run as much as double or triple the torque through the stock transmission. Auto transmissions can be very tough because of how they absorb torque, but all that torque makes heat. and getting rid of the heat is the key to success.

So with a temp gauge along with your bigger ATF cooler, a constant supply of good clean AT fluid, a drain plug magnet there is no reason why you can't have fun.

You just have to behave when the trans is cold or getting to hot! So put the gauge somewhere you will see it and make sure the sensor is either in the transmission or in-line on the transmissions output feed line to the cooler!

It is important to note that depending on the climate, like as cold as it is here in Chicago during the winter it can take as long as a half hour of driving to get the trans warmed up!

It is -12C right now, and it is warmer tonight (-6Hours GMT) than it has been for a few days. A couple days ago we had a daytime high temperature of only -19C which is about normal for this time.

But you said it is 15C where you are currently? In city driving it may only take 10-15 minutes because the converter isn't locked up and the slipping speeds up the warming process.

The 20w50 engine oil you are using takes a little longer than that sometimes and is equally important to have warm so usually a good rule of thumb is about 15-20minutes of driving.

In a hot climate, like 30-35C it may only take 5-15 minutes to get everything up to operating temperature!

This is where the gauges come in handy!

Remember, even though it may not feel like it to you, if you are making more than 100whp/liter treat the car like a race car and you can't go wrong.

They need love or they get angry and uncooperative! So if you are going to "brake-torque" you can certainly do it every now and then, but make sure it is worth it!

Otherwise try to race from a roll! And be safe!

Your fit would be more at home on a race course then a drag strip, but either way it will be a lot of fun if you take care of it and inspect often!

Edit: I just re-read some of our old conversations, are you trying to make your 250whp on the GT2554R? or Did you move up to a slightly bigger turbo (like GT2860RS)?

It will be very hard to safely make that much power on a GT25 on our engines! It helps that you have lower than stock compression ratio, but not a whole lot.

 

But if you insist on trying to use the GT25 that came with your HKS you will need a very good intercooler AND one of these companies methanol/water injection kits:

Snow Performance:
Snow Performance: Products

Devil's Own:
Alcohol Injection Kits : Water Injection Systems : Water Methanol Injection : DevilsOwn Injection

AEM Electronics:
AEM Water/Methanol Injection Kits - Water-Meth Injection Systems for Turbo/Super - Wideband O2 UEGO, Water/Methanol, Stand Alone Engine Management, Piggyback F/IC, Tru Boost Controller, Gauges, Automotive Performance Electronics

In order to do it safely and consistently for a long time.

 

The throttle is closed by the ecu to about 40-50% during and right after the shift on its own, stock. This should help it live longer. Most piggybacks dont have compatability for shift related fuel or ignition logic.

 

The GE computer is quite the nanny I see! You do realize you have become a wealth of information for so many!

That would certainly go a long way in cutting down on torque between shifts, but it doesn't kill spool nearly as bad as having the slap the throttle plate shut like on MTs which is nice!

I guess I am always stuck thinking in full standalone EMS terms/abilities..

I haven't really been dealing with piggybacks like S-AFC and the FIC's lately but I could've sworn the FIC could do this. Of all things the Greddy eManage Ultimate does offer the ability to tweak some of those tables/parameters.

Also you'll have a PM here in a minute..

 

Hhmm.. I have heard someone broke down the autotrans..he boosted at 0.5bar on the highway then a few minute later(about 15-20 minutes) then the trans broke down..but it's not followed by a clear evidence..

A lot of thanks for you good ideas and suggestion I'm so appreciate that's.. I will take my car as my second girlfriend.. but don't tell it to her..lols..


A transmission temperature gauge ? I never heard this before.. But as you said this thing is very important to monitoring the heat of the trans...

"spinning ain't winning" I will always remember it dsm..
But when we took a drag race we must start from a stop,mustn't we?


Yes I know about that..haha..lightweight wheel and some good tires will put more power..I will buy them later..
For suspension I used HKS Hipermax S-Compact...



Yes it's ever happens in the midnite after rain..in lembang;bandung;westjava... But normal temperatur it's about 22-27c in the night and 30-40c in daytime..Actually hot in here.. Huft..


Not the GT25 but Garret T25 proven by HKS.. 250whp is quite impossible.. I will dyno my car in friday..and I will give you the result..my expectation it will be around 200-220hp on crank..but it can reach up to 250hp but I have a little worry it will break down my car..

Note : tomorrow I will reply again from pc.. Thanks dsm..thanks a lot..

 

The T25 HKS uses is a version of the Garrett-Honeywell GT25 family of turbos!

It is very similar to the one that came stock on Nissan SR20DET's and post-1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse Turbos (4G63T)

It is proven as tough, it is very torquey.

However... it gets very inefficient very fast above a certain airflow level or a certain boost pressure which ever threshold you cross first.. So about 1 Bar boost or 25lbs/min airflow (enough airmass for about ~230whp)

So something larger like a T28 or GT28xx style would be more efficient to make that power on and has room to make more if you want to later on! All while still spooling quickly and providing tons of torque.

You possibly can make 250whp on a T25, but it would be exceedingly difficult, inefficient and would require a very aggressive tune!

Since you have a built rotating assembly, when you outgrow the T25.. look at a GT28 or GT30, a Holset HY35, or Borgwarner S200 series maybe even one of the new Borg Warner EFR series turbos, like the 62K80!

 

How about Dastek? i used Dastek Unichip Q+it's good or not dsm?

 

From what I can find it looks like you found yourself a nice piggy back, and they are able to customize the tune for your car.

The one thing I cannot find on the website:
Dastek Products - Unichip

Is whether or not you would be able to tune it yourself on the street or make adjustments when or where needed without having to go back to them. As in if you can plug your lap top into it or reconfigure settings in the car yourself if you wanted to.

But otherwise it sounds like you should be just fine!

My bit of advice would be to try and bring it in on the coldest day possible, and then ask if you can come in on very hot day to make sure everything is behaving.

I say this because on a cold day if you go, you will find out the maximum amount of air and fuel you will be able to use at the boost level you pick. This is done so you don't find that at a certain air temperature you can move so much air that you push the car past the ability of the fuel system to provide fuel. When that happens and you run severely lean you run the risk of experiencing real "knock" also known as detonation.

As in literally have something go BOOM. So the cold day is to find out how much power you can make and support!

Then going back on a hot day, they will be able to make sure that when conditions are not ideal that you won't be seeing any "knock" or "pinging" because on hot days the car is going to be relying on the fuel to keep things safe.

And if you have a bad tank of fue on a hot day while your car has an aggressive tune and you go to drag race you might blow something up then as well. Because you will be prone to knocking here as well!

So the hot day is to make sure your tune is "safe." I hope that makes sense!



This is how I tune cars for myself and others. Many of the cars are daily driven, so you want it to be fast but it needs to be reliable right? This is where the hot/cold things come in.

Because lets say I tune my car one time only and it was a hot day like 35-38C, then a few months later, when it is -15C I find I am making a LOT more power because the cold air is much denser!

So the turbo pushes more air at a time into the engine than it would on a hot day at the same boost level. Then I go to do a full throttle run somewhere and move so much more air that I haven't prepared the tune for, I discover the fuel system is inadequate and I go boom.

Alternate situation, I tune one time only on a cold day, like -15C. Then when the weather changes and it is now 35-40C. All the extra timing and leaner fuel mixture I could get away with in the winter with the cold air, is now not possible.

The hot air is less dense and it brings more energy with it. This means it takes less energy from compression to heat it up to an unsafe level.

So now you have to run less advance, and inject more fuel on the hot day to keep things safe inside the engine. This is a more conservative tune, it runs safer. It makes less power, but you should expect to make less power on a hot day, because the air is less dense and you can cram less air in the engine at the same boost then you would on a cold day.

Please let me know if any of that was unclear or confusing! I would like to see this work out well for you!

It looks like you have the potential for a real beast with the pistons and rods you chose! I will be interested to see how the Dastek Chip/device works out

 

i'm runs out of money to buy that...haha...
i will update my car again in the end of this year.. and for now it's time to save the money..hehe..
ooohhh... the T25 is GT25...i know it from you...
you teach me well about car and turbo,,,thanks a lot dsm...
I always want to know more about turbos and engine works..and you help my so much...

for your info : i bought hks turbo kit and i think it's very potential..

and the T25 is on the package.. if change the turbin I should make a new piping right?

here is the link..
DASTEK
i tuned my car at sigmaspeed the main dastek distributor in indonesia..and my car will dyno in there...sigmaspeed located at jakarta the capital city of indonesia where the air/climate is very very hot...

This is how I tune cars for myself and others. Many of the cars are daily driven, so you want it to be fast but it needs to be reliable right? This is where the hot/cold things come in.

right dsm... i want fast car but still comfortable for daily driven...
in dastek there are 5 map.. and i said to sigma to set the map : 1 for eco driven, 2 for daily driven and 2 for race or drag..

Because lets say I tune my car one time only and it was a hot day like 35-38C, then a few months later, when it is -15C I find I am making a LOT more power because the cold air is much denser!

So the turbo pushes more air at a time into the engine than it would on a hot day at the same boost level. Then I go to do a full throttle run somewhere and move so much more air that I haven't prepared the tune for, I discover the fuel system is inadequate and I go boom.

Alternate situation, I tune one time only on a cold day, like -15C. Then when the weather changes and it is now 35-40C. All the extra timing and leaner fuel mixture I could get away with in the winter with the cold air, is now not possible.

The hot air is less dense and it brings more energy with it. This means it takes less energy from compression to heat it up to an unsafe level.

So now you have to run less advance, and inject more fuel on the hot day to keep things safe inside the engine. This is a more conservative tune, it runs safer. It makes less power, but you should expect to make less power on a hot day, because the air is less dense and you can cram less air in the engine at the same boost then you would on a cold day.


very very good explanation...
tune in hot climate will make the car going faster when the air is cold..
cold air consist more oxygen than hot air..more oxygen more power right??
many words that i can't say to you dsm..haha..just thanks a lot..
and i'm sorry if my english is so horrible..lol

 

and thank you for your links... is for helpfull
i want to buy them but i don't have international card...i will ask my tuner later..

 

Well you are close! It is very complex and a language barrier doesnt help but you are picking it up well!

You tune on a nice cold day for power and to see what the limits of your system are. Cold day is for max power.

You come back for tune adjustment on a hot day to make sure that when the weather is bad (bad= hot and humid day) you don't run into problems with the tune. Hot air makes less power, which is the same reason why the T25 limits you. Hot day is for long term safety!

The other reason the T25 is a limit, is because the turbo inlet is just simply to small and at higher rpm the engine starts to choke on the turbo!

Here is a graph I made for another FF member, Lyon. He is also using a T25 turbo as opposed to a GT2554R, they are very similar but there are little differences. So here is your turbo:



1 Bar boost is 14.7psi is a Pressure Ratio of 2.0! 0.5 Bar is about 8psi is a Pressure ratio of 1.5.

Most of these maps start at 1.0Bar because that is the pressure of the air in the atmosphere around us at sea-level, so 2.0 pressure ratio is 1 Bar atmosphere (14.7psi) + 1 Bar Boost (14.7psi).

This would be 2 Bar absolute pressure, or 1 Bar boost. make sense?

To make 250whp on an auto trans on this turbo, you would need 25C (or colder) air temperature and ~1.2Bar (16-18psi) boost (2.2 Pressure ratio on the map above, see pink line!) This is all assuming you have good tune and fuel ofcourse!

.
.
.

When you change turbos, depending on which turbo you choose you may be able to swap them out directly without needing new parts!

But some might require you to find an adapter for your exhaust manifold and make a new downpipe (The part that bolts to the exhaust pipe on the turbine outlet side!)

When you have a chance can you take pictures of the inlet and the outlet on the exhaust side of the turbo?

This will help me figure out what turbos would be an easy or cheap "bolt on" and then all you would need is a slight retune when the time comes!

 

so f*cking awesome!!
are you the crew of allied signal automotive???

^
what a secret recipe!!

so i can reached up to 250whp if i tuned it well?
and it doesn't give an inflict damage to my trans?
but i believe 2 bar bos will blow up my intake... the intake of L15A is made from plastic isn't?
so amazed..
how much power that Lyon Fit could reach??
i'm sorry for to much ask you dsm...

When you have a chance can you take pictures of the inlet and the outlet on the exhaust side of the turbo?
for sure, i will ask my tuner if he have another same hks bolt-on kit to take pictures of it..

 

I do not work for Allied though I wouldn't mind, they merely had the map available online and I drew a few lines on it where our stock 1.5L engines use the map.

It will take about 1.25 Bar boost in your manifold to move enough air @ 25C. It will take quality fuel and an aggressive tune as well!

But you are right, at some point the plastic intake becomes a weak link. 2.0 bar boost is 29.4 psi! Which is about what I run on my low boost (pump gas only) winter tune on my race car. 2.0Bar boost is the same as 3.0 bar absolute pressure or a 3.0 pressure ratio on the map.

I get the 3.0 bar number because it is 1 bar atmospheric pressure that you and I are feeling as we sit here typing, plus the 2 bar boost thrown on top.

So even though you only need to run 1.25 bar boost to make ~250whp, you are actually creating 2.25 bar "absolute" pressure in the manifold!

1.0 bar atmosphere plus 1.25 bar boost is 2.25 bar absolute! That is where I get those numbers. Hope that helps!

Lyon has not had a chance to dyno, he is street tuning the car on his own, and doing a good job as far as I can tell!

He is currently running 0.8 Bar (12psi) boost. Where we live it is cold this time of year so at 0.8 Bar he is potentially moving enough air to make about 200whp/200wtq on his auto transmission GE!

He has a somewhat restrictive exhaust at the moment, which is hurting power and spool speed as well.

But when it is convenient he is getting a 2.5" exhaust which will open things up, but it will also push him farther off the turbo's map (that red shaded area on the upper right!) at higher rpm. This is why it will be tough to make that power even on a cold day with a good tune and good fuel. The turbo is just maxed out at the boost and airflow levels required to make 250whp.

If you do not intend to switch to a bigger turbo for a while, I would just see what they can extract from your setup instead of worrying about a specific number like 250whp. It is theoretically possible, but somewhat unlikely. Especially on only 1.5L displacement!

 

here's the picture :

ohhhh.... 200whp so great!
did he change the rod and piston to?
i doubt if i can reach 200whp with my auto GE..
the climate is very hot in jakarta..

and if i boost up to 1.25 bar i'm sure the plastic intake will blow up...
that is what i worried about..

 

He is on a stock engine Automatic Trans GE!

If you have a big ATF cooler, a fan on the cooler and a temp gauge to monitor things you should be able to get away with 200whp.

I agree you might crack or pop your intake manifold at a certain boost level and it likely isnt a whole lot.

For what it is worth Lyon has accidently hit 16psi a few times so far with no exploding manifolds
Ok so it is a regular GT25! That is an open T3 turbine housing (The square flange on the left is the turbine inlet) basically anything in open T3 that will fit back there will bolt up.

I am guessing the other side of the turbine, the outlet is a 5-bolt flange that looks like this? (Stole picture from Lyon's thread, sorry!)

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-...completed.html

Is that what yours looks like? That is the regular 5 bolt garrett flange. And several other larger turbos can bolt right in. On others you may have to have a new downpipe section made or atleast have a new flange put on!

On a bigger turbo you make more power on less boost and if you choose the right turbo you won't lose much spool speed. So you pick a turbo you can make 250whp on @ 1 Bar or lower.

Personally I would just buy a manifold that can handle the boost.

The plastic will deform and crack over time under pressure. This is almost guaranteed at any pressure, because it is plastic stock manifold not designed for boost. Not too mention you will gain significant power switching manifolds.