2011 Honda Fit Sport Dyno 121 WHP
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,661
From: Georgia
Other than puffery they post no specs. Installation shows inputs from TPS, O2, and MAP or MAF (besides 12v supply and ground). Output is the MAF or MAP value to the ECU.
If you're interested. I've got some awesome magnets I can sell you. They align the fuel molecules for increased power. Or I have a hydrogen generator that'll run your car for free.
edit: here they are if you're really interested:
Alarm 1: they specify the same unit for all hondas, all years from 1989 through 2008.
Alarm 2: the installation instructions show inputs from the o2 sensor, throttle position sensor, MAF/MAP sensor. The output from this black box is sent to the ECU as the MAF input. All this can do is provide an altered air flow reading. All this can do is change the air/fuel mix. The amount of fuel being metered isn't open to interpretation; it's either correct given the air flow, or it isn't.
This is akin to the chips you see advertised on ebay all the time that splice between MAF/MAP and the ECU. These cannot alter timing or fuel maps. This isn't a tune; at worst it corrupts the signal from the MAF to your ECU. At best it does nothing. If you're inclined to buy one of these, I've got some select FL land to offer and maybe a bridge or two...
Alarm 2: the installation instructions show inputs from the o2 sensor, throttle position sensor, MAF/MAP sensor. The output from this black box is sent to the ECU as the MAF input. All this can do is provide an altered air flow reading. All this can do is change the air/fuel mix. The amount of fuel being metered isn't open to interpretation; it's either correct given the air flow, or it isn't.
This is akin to the chips you see advertised on ebay all the time that splice between MAF/MAP and the ECU. These cannot alter timing or fuel maps. This isn't a tune; at worst it corrupts the signal from the MAF to your ECU. At best it does nothing. If you're inclined to buy one of these, I've got some select FL land to offer and maybe a bridge or two...
Last edited by Steve244; Jul 2, 2013 at 02:00 PM.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,302
From: Louisville
I did. Why don't you? Website and installation instructions are up thread a ways...
Other than puffery they post no specs. Installation shows inputs from TPS, O2, and MAP or MAF (besides 12v supply and ground). Output is the MAF or MAP value to the ECU.
If you're interested. I've got some awesome magnets I can sell you. They align the fuel molecules for increased power. Or I have a hydrogen generator that'll run your car for free.
edit: here they are if you're really interested:
Other than puffery they post no specs. Installation shows inputs from TPS, O2, and MAP or MAF (besides 12v supply and ground). Output is the MAF or MAP value to the ECU.
If you're interested. I've got some awesome magnets I can sell you. They align the fuel molecules for increased power. Or I have a hydrogen generator that'll run your car for free.
edit: here they are if you're really interested:
Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 501
From: Brunswick Ohio
Anyway, this still wouldn't yield those numbers. Its a very specific adjustment between a/f and timing that makes power. It is very specific to rpm, throttle position/engine load, etc.
I would be very interested to see some data logging for what this piggyback is really doing.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,661
From: Georgia
The only way I could see this helping is because it uses its own MAF sensor, you could have a larger diameter tube for the MAF. Opening up the intake restrictions could help some (though I'm pretty sure my MAP sensor shows close to 1atm at wot indicating to me that there's not a lot of restrictions).
I can see a wider diameter intake and a MAF designed for it helping a bit. But restrictions due to the throttle body, air chamber, intake manifold, valves, exhaust manifold (it's integrated in the head, you will not be adding a header to this thing no matter how hard you try) will still exist unchanged.
I was curious about catalytic converter deletion. Internet chatter has this as not helping/possibly harming power output. But I'm open to learn more about power gains from this if anyone has any information on the topic...
Last edited by Steve244; Jul 2, 2013 at 02:17 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 189
From: Calgary, Canada
the OP did install an aftermarket MAF along with his CAI, Cat delete (both?), and the v-force thingy. A new MAF sensor is not required, suggested, or offered for the v-force box.
I can see a wider diameter intake and a MAF designed for it helping a bit. But restrictions due to the throttle body, air chamber, intake manifold, valves, exhaust manifold (it's integrated in the head, you will not be adding a header to this thing no matter how hard you try) will still exist unchanged.
I was curious about catalytic converter deletion. Internet chatter has this as not helping/possibly harming power output. But I'm open to learn more about power gains from this if anyone has any information on the topic...
I can see a wider diameter intake and a MAF designed for it helping a bit. But restrictions due to the throttle body, air chamber, intake manifold, valves, exhaust manifold (it's integrated in the head, you will not be adding a header to this thing no matter how hard you try) will still exist unchanged.
I was curious about catalytic converter deletion. Internet chatter has this as not helping/possibly harming power output. But I'm open to learn more about power gains from this if anyone has any information on the topic...
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,361
From: right coast
And you give one a pass but jump all over the other with the same amount of data. How are they different?
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From: right coast
The stock ECM will advance the timing for you because the detonation point is lowered because it is richer.
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Posts: 1,361
From: right coast
So you are admitting that you STILL have no idea how this works right?
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,361
From: right coast
the OP did install an aftermarket MAF along with his CAI, Cat delete (both?), and the v-force thingy. A new MAF sensor is not required, suggested, or offered for the v-force box.
I can see a wider diameter intake and a MAF designed for it helping a bit. But restrictions due to the throttle body, air chamber, intake manifold, valves, exhaust manifold (it's integrated in the head, you will not be adding a header to this thing no matter how hard you try) will still exist unchanged.
I was curious about catalytic converter deletion. Internet chatter has this as not helping/possibly harming power output. But I'm open to learn more about power gains from this if anyone has any information on the topic...
I can see a wider diameter intake and a MAF designed for it helping a bit. But restrictions due to the throttle body, air chamber, intake manifold, valves, exhaust manifold (it's integrated in the head, you will not be adding a header to this thing no matter how hard you try) will still exist unchanged.
I was curious about catalytic converter deletion. Internet chatter has this as not helping/possibly harming power output. But I'm open to learn more about power gains from this if anyone has any information on the topic...
So why don't you open a new thread so we can teach you more about cylinder loading before you continue to step in it. (that's what the second or third time this month??
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,661
From: Georgia
Why don't you contrast and compare the two. Here I'll help. Here's the OP's setup:
Finally got a day to do a few Dyno pulls to see where I'm at with all my mods .
Mod list : Jet Performance V-Force , Jet Performance MAF Sensor , PRM Intake , T1R Power Header/Downpipe , T1R Test Pipe , T1R B-Pipe with resonator deleted
and Mugen axleback . So I think I got real good results for not having Hondata available for the GE8's . Power was smooth and straight climb and torque stayed level for most part . 121 WHP .
Mod list : Jet Performance V-Force , Jet Performance MAF Sensor , PRM Intake , T1R Power Header/Downpipe , T1R Test Pipe , T1R B-Pipe with resonator deleted
and Mugen axleback . So I think I got real good results for not having Hondata available for the GE8's . Power was smooth and straight climb and torque stayed level for most part . 121 WHP .
Our Honda associate employee race team (ATR) has been building cars for time attack since 2006, and back in 2009, we got a GE8 Fit to play with.
We originally ran it nearly stock, then we decided to turbo it....
I'll admit, I lurked fitfreak looking for success stories with a GE8 turbo, but didn't find too much info. So now that our car has been completed and run for 2 years, I feel I should share a bit. Unfortunately, I'm not so great at taking photos of everything, but if anyone has any questions, I may be able to assist. The car is still together, so I will try and take some more photos of the build.
Here are the engine specs the 1st year we ran using stock internals:
215whp on mustang dyno
Borgwarner EFR6258 turbo
AEM FIC piggyback ecu
RDX 410cc injectors
Walboro 255lph fuel pump
Vibrant FMIC
AEM UGEO wideband
3" turbo-back exhaust (no cat)
Mishimoto radiator
Mishimoto oil cooler
We originally ran it nearly stock, then we decided to turbo it....
I'll admit, I lurked fitfreak looking for success stories with a GE8 turbo, but didn't find too much info. So now that our car has been completed and run for 2 years, I feel I should share a bit. Unfortunately, I'm not so great at taking photos of everything, but if anyone has any questions, I may be able to assist. The car is still together, so I will try and take some more photos of the build.
Here are the engine specs the 1st year we ran using stock internals:
215whp on mustang dyno
Borgwarner EFR6258 turbo
AEM FIC piggyback ecu
RDX 410cc injectors
Walboro 255lph fuel pump
Vibrant FMIC
AEM UGEO wideband
3" turbo-back exhaust (no cat)
Mishimoto radiator
Mishimoto oil cooler
...And we swapped in H-beam rods and 9:1 forged pistons, Bisimoto intake manifold, and bisimoto cams the 2nd year, but ran into problems with fueling and tuning. The returnless fuel system was running out of relative pressure compared to manifold pressure, and so the injector duration was getting maxed out. So we did what we could and only ended up with 243whp on the mustang dyno.
It really requires a return fuel system to have proper fuel pressure at high boost. And it also needs a standalone ECU so it can rev to 8000rpm where the turbo and the cam work best. The FMIC and piping isn't very efficient, so that would have to be improved. We also had some problems with the stock ECU thinking the increased cylinder combustion pressure was misfire, and would sometimes cause limp-mode - standalone would fix that.
After that, I'm confident we could get 300whp at about 20psi, and 350 at 30psi. Although the transmission probably wouldn't last long at that power...
Anyway, even with "only" 243whp, the car is a blast to drive. The chassis is quite stiff, and handles great. The rear torsion suspension makes it very tail happy when set up properly, and the J's racing wing keeps it in check at higher speeds.
And of course, when I roll through pit lane and let off the throttle, it always makes me smile when it pops and backfires out the side exit straight exhaust.
Oh, and shooting fire on track surprises other drivers... especially in a Fit.
It really requires a return fuel system to have proper fuel pressure at high boost. And it also needs a standalone ECU so it can rev to 8000rpm where the turbo and the cam work best. The FMIC and piping isn't very efficient, so that would have to be improved. We also had some problems with the stock ECU thinking the increased cylinder combustion pressure was misfire, and would sometimes cause limp-mode - standalone would fix that.
After that, I'm confident we could get 300whp at about 20psi, and 350 at 30psi. Although the transmission probably wouldn't last long at that power...
Anyway, even with "only" 243whp, the car is a blast to drive. The chassis is quite stiff, and handles great. The rear torsion suspension makes it very tail happy when set up properly, and the J's racing wing keeps it in check at higher speeds.
And of course, when I roll through pit lane and let off the throttle, it always makes me smile when it pops and backfires out the side exit straight exhaust.
Oh, and shooting fire on track surprises other drivers... especially in a Fit.
Last edited by Steve244; Jul 3, 2013 at 10:50 AM.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,361
From: right coast
turbocharged with this device producing 215whp is a far cry from the OP getting 121whp normally aspirated with snake oil.
Why don't you contrast and compare the two. Here I'll help. Here's the OP's setup:
And here's the one you want me to find fault with:
and then they upgraded internals allowing it to produce 243whp
What exactly is your point, Loud?
Why don't you contrast and compare the two. Here I'll help. Here's the OP's setup:
And here's the one you want me to find fault with:
and then they upgraded internals allowing it to produce 243whp
What exactly is your point, Loud?
Nice try though.Guess this means you aren't starting a cylinder loading thread so you can learn something.
Last edited by loudbang; Jul 4, 2013 at 02:24 AM.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,361
From: right coast
Dude learn some reading comprehension. I was comparing the posting situation not the two builds.
But while we are here you are another one posting about something you know nothing about. Pray tell let us all in on how his tuner system works you do know right or just GUESSING about how it works or what it does?
But while we are here you are another one posting about something you know nothing about. Pray tell let us all in on how his tuner system works you do know right or just GUESSING about how it works or what it does?
Last edited by loudbang; Jul 4, 2013 at 02:34 AM.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,302
From: Louisville
As to how the v force thing works, all it can do, based on what it outputs, is lie about what the maf sensor reads.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,661
From: Georgia
If you'd like to discuss the apparent workings of a Jet V-Force thingy vs. an AEM FIC piggyback ecu plus a turbocharger, that might be interesting.
Last edited by Steve244; Jul 4, 2013 at 04:14 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2013
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From: right coast
Nope you didn't tell us what the device does with those inputs you just surmised you still don't know what it does.
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 629
From: USA
121 hp is plausible with those mods in my opinion. Remember hp gains are relative to the other mods. Too many times claims are made that product X makes 4 hp. That's not correct, good results are in percentage. ie: 10%-15% hp gain. Altitude, temperature, and humidity also have effects up or down. Some people will be on the higher end of the hp scale.
Also, the dyno used in the video is a awd dyno (dyno pack). A roller dyno (like Mustang) has noticeable hp loss between the roller and tires. Dyno packs will always read higher because the are bolted to the hub. It doesn't mean it is wrong, it just doesn't take in account traction loss like on a roller dyno.
For what it is worth the dyno is a measuring tool, every measuring tool has error. A micrometer is more accurate than a vernier caliper. And a vernier caliper is more accurate than a ruler. It does not mean the ruler measurements are wrong.
Also, the dyno used in the video is a awd dyno (dyno pack). A roller dyno (like Mustang) has noticeable hp loss between the roller and tires. Dyno packs will always read higher because the are bolted to the hub. It doesn't mean it is wrong, it just doesn't take in account traction loss like on a roller dyno.
For what it is worth the dyno is a measuring tool, every measuring tool has error. A micrometer is more accurate than a vernier caliper. And a vernier caliper is more accurate than a ruler. It does not mean the ruler measurements are wrong.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,661
From: Georgia
What do you think it does?