Hi all,

I installed swift springs a couple months ago and recently took my Fit to the local Honda dealer for an alignment.

When I picked up the car I noticed the steering felt very loose compared to before. In other words, the steering wheel moves around with much less effort. I must admit that the steering feel was a bit heavy before but now it feels very light.

The question is, is this normal after getting an alignment? is something perhaps loose? Should I be going back to the dealer?

On a side note, since lowering (may be a coincidence) I have felt subtle intermittent vibrations through the steering wheel at all speeds (not just hwy speeds). It's more noticeable when turning. It kinda feels like driving on slightly rough asphalt (even through the road is actually smooth)....any ideas?

Thanks

 

My steering wheel has always been very light.

 

you're going to feel everything...imperfect roads will slight grade adjustments and texture will have you thinking you need your wheels balanced.....

Since lowering my car 3 years ago, I paid for firestones unlimited lifetime alignment and wheel balancing....I also try to get both done once before winter and again before summer.

They give me crap about how alignment cant be perfect once lowered but I feel this is BS. That said My alignment holds up really well in this car (possible due to the springs).

Balance your wheels and give it a go....there will be an adjustment period for you and a permanent adjustment period for your passengers!

 

The vibrations could be due to unbalanced wheel(s) or uneven tread wear due to the previous poor alignment. This is presuming the problem doesn't occur when braking.

 

Thanks for the replies, I've since swapped my summer 17s to my winter 16s.......and have the same subtle vibrations, so I dont think its the wheels. Any suspension related items which could cause this?

Also, I spoke to my buddy who helped with the swift spring install, he noted that if toe was off it would have made the steering feel more heavy, after the alignment this heavy feel went away. I just got used to the heavy feel i guess.... and this lighter feel may be normal?

 

Dealer alignment didn't minimize free play when the toe is adjusted. When the toe is adjusted the steering wheel should have minimum free play when the wheels are locked in place as the toe rod is tightened/loosened to spec. its not that dealer tech did wrong, its he wasn't real careful.
as for feeling vibrations when car is lowered you have reduced the insulation (not real insulation) of wheel motins due to road roughness. The solution is to put ribber hose around the spring coils at the upper seat. wall thickness 1/8". helps but doesn't cure.

 

unless you got camber bolts the only thing adjustable on this car is the front toe. be pretty sad if your dealer screwed that up...

vibrations are usually from unbalanced wheels. get them roadforce balanced.

 

What alingment spec's are you guys running ? close to stock or ?

 

post your alignment printout. it should have before and after, and you can see if the toe got adjusted a lot or if you're just guessing that was what was changed, and whether you're "light" or "heavy".

Without the numbers, it's all theory and guessing.

If they didn't give you a printout, that's a bit of a shame, you have no idea if they did nothing at all, or screwed things up worse, or made things better.

Ask for it next time, or find a different place to do alignments that will give you the printout.

 

Would you elaborate on the statement "the only thing adjustable on this car is the front toe". If I send my car in for an allignment at my local garage, is he only aligning/adjusting the front wheels?

 

yes. there are no adjustments that can be done on the rear.

The service manual basically says if the rear is giving a bad alignment, you are to look for bent/broken parts and replace them to get the alignment back to spec.

 

You probably had some toe out in the front before? That would explain almost everything. If they set it back to zero, turn in will feel different.

 

yes. the one thing that should be done when adjusting toe is making sure tha toe rods are tight, meaning if the steering wheel is turned even a quarter-inch the wheel will move. many alignment shops don't make sure the left and right side rods atr 'tight' so the steering wheel can be moved up to a half-inch before the wheel moves. To get it right it usually means locking the whhels in place and making sure the toe rods are in a littletension.If you can twist the toe rods e half turn without causing the wheel to move its too 'loose', ie slack.

 

Thanks for the replies.

I did get a print out and specs, given that only front toe is the only material change, I'll just post specs vs the actual pictures.

Before
Front Left Toe: 0.8
Front Right Toe: -1.9

(the picture effectively shows both front tires pointing to the right)

After
Front Left Toe: 0
Front Right Toe: 0

After driving it for a couple days, I totally think I feel what mahout is describing, i.e. slack in the steering wheel which almost feels like a slight delay when turning....on top of that, with the wheel perfectly straight I feel like it actually pulls left! Its almost as if they over-adjusted for the right-pointed toe they appear to have observed.....

I also feel the like the suspension feels more "floaty" (if that's a word), it could be the swap from the 45 profile 17s to the 55 profile 16s for winter? or could this also signal something is loose......?

Either way, looks like I'm going to have to go back, these dealers are completely useless. This is why I do most of the work on my car myself....

 

Total toe out before the alignment is still -1.1. If your aftermarket 17" wheels have a lower offset (stick out further than the stock wheels, which I assume you swapped to) you will feel a difference because you've changed the overall wheel track of the car. Also I assume the tires on the 17" wheels are more performance oriented and even if not, have stiffer sidewalls than the 55 series you have on your 16" wheels. All of these things together can definitely be felt.

On a laser rack, it's pretty hard to screw up, other than not centering the wheel right. I'm not sure what this "slack" is though, there is always a little bit due to bushings and stuff, but nothing major. Once you lock everything down, that's pretty much that unless you have major issues with suspension components, it shouldn't change much barring any meetings with curbs or potholes, or time.

You should post the rest of the measurements, thrust angle included. If there's a wander thrust angle should show it. Even if your wheel is cocked a little going straight the car should track fairly straight with your hands off the wheel if thrust angle is 0. If the wheel is cocked and it does this that means they screwed up centering it before they set the toe.

 

When you lowered your car, your toe changed. The dealer corrected your toe and now it feels "normal" or neutral.

If you want straight line/cruising stability, give it some toe in.

If you was baddass cornering, give it some toe out. This will probably make the car feel "loose" when driving straight.

Or leave the toe at 0 like it is.

 

well I had an alignment a few months ago knowing going in that I had a bit of a toe-in condition (bit may equal a lot, I may have had a bent front subframe). Car was looser coming out that it was infinitely less twitchy at highway speeds and that the steering was much looser (mainly because much less effort was taken to keep the car on the road)... I can imagine any calibrations can have that effect of feeling like it's less work.

I think what you are experiencing is normal for an alignment where corrections are made and that you are being paranoid unless you can be much more descriptive of behavioral differences.

 

Thrust angle was -0.01 before and now 0.

Clearly the bigger tires and toe being off contributed to the feel.

It looks like I have two issues, steering wheel was not centered when aligned as I have to point the wheel slightly to the right and there seems to be a little play in the wheel. So I will be calling the dealer tomorrow.

 

Mine has always been fairly light, whats wierd is my buddy has the same fit same year (he bought his 2 weeks after me) and his always steering felt much heavier then mine even when we both had stock everything. My Fit is a little darty on the freeway at times but that's because i got negative camber and zero toe.