2nd Generation (GE 08-13) 2nd Generation specific talk and questions here.

Finally plagued by the loose spark plugs

  #21  
Old 01-07-2019, 11:24 PM
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Cool Temporary Solution

So the CEL came on again, and then went off on its on on Sunday. I think because it was warmer and I first drove later in the day (11 am compared to 7 am) the car was warmer and the leak was minimal. I ordered an endoscope for this, and found out my helcoil is already half dissolved (not literal.) A piece of the heli coil came out when I pulled the spark plug.

spark plug threads

piece of HeliCoil that came out on it's own

I torqued the spark plug down to 20 lb ft, and it stayed for today at least. I am going to keep torquing it down until Monday when I drop off my car at a mechanic who may bring my head to a machine shop for repairs.
 
  #22  
Old 01-08-2019, 12:05 AM
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damn what a pita.

wish i would have came across these plug issues before i bought my Fit last spring. This in combination with some oil burning...i have a bit of regret now. Its such a weird...and critical issue. Although I am enjoying everything else about my car....the "high maintenance " aspect of it is kinda turning me off. I guess every make has its issues...but after driving a toyota the last 9 years without these issues.... now idk what to think about Honda.

Ill definitely be looking forward to your updates. Good luck!
 
  #23  
Old 01-08-2019, 07:32 PM
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Too little too late im sure, but a while back i did a search on your behalf to see if I could find a head on ebay for the l15a7. I actually found one going for around 200 from what I assume was a totaled fit. I'd be willing to wager that a used head and a resurfacing by a machine shop wouldnt set you back beyond 400.. thats a guess though in regards to machining prices. The concept is simple, so Im sure you could find a reasonable shop thats still uh. Competent.

but there begins the real cost. You pay in time or cash. If it were me, I'd order the head, pull the motor (maybe with a rental hoist in your case) and take the two down to a machinist to be checked out. i've got far more blood and sweat than I do cash, just tack on a few bucks for energy drinks and batteries for the old headlamp.
if a shop does it, it'll be expensive, and I'd be concerned a great deal about quality. They may skip the machine shop, the torque specs, and several other things to make their quote competitive.
that stuff only matters if you care about your car though.

i checked my plug torque after about 10k miles on the new iridiums and they still held/hold.
According to an old superstreet article where they worked with kraftwerks to tune a GE they made a claim that denso ik22 plugs resolve a hotspot in the cylinders. I dont know how the hell youd test for that, but if true it may be a preventative step for fit owners.
i'd also recommend redline oil. I'm not aware of a burning issue, but it's a very famous oil among enthusiasts because of its high moly content. If you want a resource for that check out bobistheoilguy.

​​​​​i really hope these issues arent commonplace for the fit. Is everyone using anti-seize? A copper antiseize would go a long way to help heat transfer which may keep the spark plugs expanding and contracting at a rate more similar to the head.
 
  #24  
Old 01-09-2019, 07:00 AM
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I used some blue Permatex Threadlocker approx 40,000 miles ago and haven't had the problem (loose plug, CEL coming on, sooty coil packs) since (#2 & #3 loose). 73,000 miles on '11 Sport AT right now.
 
  #25  
Old 01-09-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by spike55_bmw View Post
I used some blue Permatex Threadlocker approx 40,000 miles ago and haven't had the problem (loose plug, CEL coming on, sooty coil packs) since (#2 & #3 loose). 73,000 miles on '11 Sport AT right now.

what did u torque the plugs at?

i see blue loctite is good to 450 degrees. considering the motor get around 200ish this is probably the route id go if mine end up loose again. one of my concerns though is how to properly clean the block's threads to ensure loctite bondage.

im doing an oil change this weekend and plan to check the torque of my plugs which will have 5,500 miles one them since replacing them and setting them at 20 lb ft. i want to pull them and check them out...but i also dont want to upset the crush washers effectiveness. ill decide over the next few days.
 
  #26  
Old 01-09-2019, 04:27 PM
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First time, I removed the HVAC airbox, cowling, wiper blades and torqued the plugs to about 13-15 lbs-ft and they came loose again. So, I just reached in, left handed and took it all apart, put some blue threadlocker on each, and torqued them by "feel". That was the last time I touched it - Nov 2014.
 
  #27  
Old 01-11-2019, 07:31 PM
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but would threadlocker, corrosion and time would make it difficult to remove
plugs in the future. worried about seized plugs.

thanks
 
  #28  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by sarasube View Post
but would threadlocker, corrosion and time would make it difficult to remove
plugs in the future. worried about seized plugs.

thanks
ive always used anti-seize but in trying to find whether or not copper head gasket adhesive spray could be used all I could find was this:
https://www.driven2automotive.com/bl...g-spark-plugs/
they say to just shove em in dry if their threads are shiny. also claim that torquing with anti-seize causes worse grip and over torque by up to 20%...
​​​​​adding glue, goo, or a silicone brew to somethin makes it icky & sticky, but in comparison to risking plug ejection (if its a concern), alllll daaay baby.
 
  #29  
Old 01-12-2019, 11:52 AM
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no offense to anyone...but using anti seize doesnt really make sense. as stated above it will lead to over torquing as it will act as "lubrication". also, if anything we want a slight "seizing" to prevent the self unscrewing they are wanting to do.
 
  #30  
Old 01-12-2019, 11:59 AM
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To those of you who have experienced spark plug loosening, did you smell exhaust odor or a burning stink under the hood prior to noticing trouble?

For what it's worth, at 60K Miles I checked the plug torque on our used Fit by setting my wrench to 20 LB/FT and all were tight, somewhere in excess of that. I let them be and didn't attempt to remove them. Coil packs were fine. Car has 88K Miles on it now. Every few months I sniff under the hood after a drive and I can't smell anything unusual.

E3's website shows 18-22 LB/FT for 14mm plugs in an aluminum head. NGKs website shows 18-21.6 LB/FT for 14mm plugs in an aluminum head. The Haynes Fit Manual shows 20 LB/FT. My Nissan has similarly sized plugs and Nissan's spec is 18 LB/FT in an aluminum head. Regardless of what Honda specifies, 18 to 22 LB/FT seems common in the automotive world.
 

Last edited by Alco RS-1; 01-12-2019 at 12:04 PM.
  #31  
Old 01-12-2019, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by eulogy View Post
no offense to anyone...but using anti seize doesnt really make sense. as stated above it will lead to over torquing as it will act as "lubrication". also, if anything we want a slight "seizing" to prevent the self unscrewing they are wanting to do.
In comparison, my bottle of blue lock-tite is a bit more watery and seems to provide less lubrication on install. So might require a bit more torque on install (I wouldn't do that, however).

I suppose the anti-seize compounds I have could reduce friction and lead to over torqueing. I think some spark plugs I have purchased come with anti-seize pre-applied so I wonder how anti-seize vs dry impacts OEM recommended torques (maybe just an industry black hole).

We recently had an older spark plug loosen and blow out the head of a Buick engine. Painful process and just ended up with used motor from a junkyard.
 
  #32  
Old 01-14-2019, 01:04 AM
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so today i changed my oil and filter..and checked my spark plugs.

i was tempted to pull the spark plugs to check them out. i told myself i would, if first, the coil packs were funky looking....and second if they were loose when checking them with the torque wrench. fortunately the coils looked good. and second all four plugs were right where i left them at 20 lbs/ft. i last checked them sept 15th, and i think they all held....i think 3 and 4 moved a hair then...could have been user error. but really they have held from their initial install 8 months and almost 6,000 miles ago.

im beginning to think we need to treat the spark plugs like oil drain plug washers....one time use. obviously the Fit has some weird quirky design flaw....which is coupled with the spark plugs not being torqued high enough to begin with. but im really starting to believe that removing and reinstalling the same plugs is part of the problem....on these specific engines anyways.

long story short....so far so good. my plan is to check my plugs torques every 3-4 months. i havnt decided when i will replace them yet though. on one hand i want to keep them "fresh" since they are relatively inexpensive...but then i also want to minimize wear and tear on those damn plug holes.
 
  #33  
Old 01-14-2019, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by eulogy View Post
long story short....so far so good. my plan is to check my plugs torques every 3-4 months. i havnt decided when i will replace them yet though. on one hand i want to keep them "fresh" since they are relatively inexpensive...but then i also want to minimize wear and tear on those damn plug holes.
I agree entirely with eulogy on this. I'm planning to check the torque regularly, and replace the plugs more often than needed. at $8 a pop for the NGK Laser Iridium plugs, might as well swap them to be safe.

As for my specific problems with the bad threads; I took my car to my family mechanic and here is the plan. The head will be pulled today and sent to a machine shop for proper installation of a new threaded insert. After that I'll get a valve adjustment and an oil change; and the car should be as smooth as it was when new.
 
  #34  
Old 01-14-2019, 02:57 PM
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does anyone know, if 3rd gen's are plagued by the same isse?
 
  #35  
Old 01-14-2019, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by evilchargerfan View Post
does anyone know, if 3rd gen's are plagued by the same isse?
I don't think so. You've got other problems to deal with
 
  #36  
Old 01-14-2019, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnpaulX View Post
I agree entirely with eulogy on this. I'm planning to check the torque regularly, and replace the plugs more often than needed. at $8 a pop for the NGK Laser Iridium plugs, might as well swap them to be safe.

As for my specific problems with the bad threads; I took my car to my family mechanic and here is the plan. The head will be pulled today and sent to a machine shop for proper installation of a new threaded insert. After that I'll get a valve adjustment and an oil change; and the car should be as smooth as it was when new.
i'm still a proud supporter of the denso ik22 spark plugs for the fit. If you order them online, youll still only pay about 8 per. My only reason for sayin so is that old superstreet article, but thats good enough for me.
Dude should be able to lay a bead on the head, or at least thats what I hope is going on, wouldnt really know. Stupid sleeve kits tell you to secure them with rtv.
your plan sounds safe enough definitely a good opportunity for a valve adjustment! its nice hearing some good news.
 
  #37  
Old 01-15-2019, 10:22 PM
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Duuude, im glad I talked to you guys. I was retorquing suspension today and figured id check the plugs to be sure theyre okay. I used my fancy torque wrench to read em in reverse. 5ftlbs holding them in place. All of em, and all 4 were lean. Cyl 1 even had burn marks on the side



Decided to use this as insurance. I'll check em in a month just to be sure they're holding. If not I'll thread chase the head and replace the plugs.
I wanted to show the burned plug but apparently my hands were too shakey cuz the pics came out too blurry to see. The discoloration was on the side of the plug's seat, you know, between the threads and the hex..

anyways, ​​​​​​thank you thank you thank you!!
​​​​​​
 
  #38  
Old 01-16-2019, 09:42 AM
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Keep us posted Pyts. That's an interesting Permatex product; I'd not seen it before. It seems made for gaskets, but on their website they mention thread application too.

Stage 8 Locking Fasteners should engineer a new product just for us Honda Fit owners. :-) They'd make a nice profit.
 
  #39  
Old 01-16-2019, 10:36 AM
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Status update, Needs a new Head

My loose spark plug issue got worse. The mechanic pulled the head and sent it to a machine shop to have the threads fixed. The threads were too far gone, so I will be getting a new (used) head installed on my car. I also found out that I was missing a lost motion spring for cylinder 4. Apparently there was a recall in 2011 that affected my car, but that was fixed at some point since I had no open recalls. Regardless, the mechanic is following the fix prescribed by the recall to all of the springs in order to prevent this issue again. Here are some pictures of the engine ripped apart.

Lost Motion Spring Missing


 
  #40  
Old 01-16-2019, 11:16 AM
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Thanks for the pics and update. How much is this likely to set you back?
 

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