Yeah i bought it new in January of 2011 after i totaled my 07, and I was following the maintenance schedule. It happened right after i had taken it in for service in fact, and I was always suspicious if maybe they touched something that made it happen. But this gives a lot more context to the situation. Seems like Im just lucky it happened under warranty. They were really good about it and it was all covered and I had a loaner for like 2 weeks. I haven't had the plugs touched since then so I have been thinking maybe I need to since they said they were supposed to get changed at 100k according to Honda. Now I know Im gonna try and be super careful about how it gets done.

 

Yeah, they need changing. About 30K ago. Also the valves need adjusting. Your maintenance minder probably flagged these at 100K which would have been too soon with the new head (and new plugs I assume). It won't flag them again until 200K.

You're marginal on the plugs failing. Normal failure is misfire. They probably were torqued to the new spec, correctly, when the head was replaced so ejecting a plug is less likely.

Valve adjustment is necessary on these cars even if they aren't excessively noisy. Burned exhaust valves could result from waiting too long.

 

Just replaced spark plugs 2011 Fit Sport auto. Details at our maintenance log

 

Why does it always seem to be plug 3?

 

No idea. I have seen a few posts speculating the 2 & 3 cylinders might run a bit hotter as they are in center of block and the nearby exhaust manifold.

 

Im still workin on that doc on and off, mostly off cuz ive been busy, but it aint forgotten.
retorqued the plugs with the copper head sealant. So far so good, she purrs.

 

Mine made it to 94k miles when I started to notice some rough idle and then it threw a light for a misfire. Got some plugs and dove in. #2 and #3 came out just sticking a socket and extension on them. 1 and 4 were still tight.

 

X25,
what plugs did u use and anything on the threads.
also did u torque them down.
thanks

 

Whatever the stock replacement NGK irridiums are. Nothing on the threads. I torqurd them with my calibrated mechanics arm (I have done a lot of spark plugs over the years. I ran these a bit tighter than I usually would).

106k miles now and no issues so far.

 

Hey guys, not trying to thread jack, but this seems like a pretty active are on the site. I have an 09 sport. Car went into limp mode a few days ago. Have misfire in 3 cylinders as well as lean code. I've been reading about all kinds of problems. I replaced the plugs (3 of the 4 were not as snug as they should be) and now the car wont even idle for more than 20-30 seconds before it shuts off. I did a compression test, that came back good. Before I pull the VC and tackle valve adjustment, I would like to test fuel pressure. Have any of you done this? Is there an inline spot I can use or do I need to disconnect from fuel rail? I also knoe coil packs are big problems with these cars, but I am wondering how often injectors go bad.

Any info and input appreciated, as I am desperately trying to get this thing back to "normal" so I can trade it in and be rid of it forever.

-Garrett

 

Limp mode..

first: Drain the oil and go through it. Look for shavings, plastic chunks, whatever.

I wouldnt do *anything* until thats done.

once thats squared away we can move on to quick tricks for testing electronic components.

EDIT: to make it easier you might want to pick up a 99 cent strainer, like for pasta..

 

I already did a compression test, and it came back nearly perfect. I have ZERO weird noises...

 

Cant have zero knock with a 3 cyl misfire im sure, but what im really drivin at here is the plastic. The last two times, which were the only times i've dealt with multi cil misfires that result in no starts, it was a snapped timing chain. Now, it wasnt on our car so I cant say with complete certainty that it has plastic formed onto a metal tensioner for the chain.. but im pretty darned confident.

if you really do want to skip that and shoot for computer failure/multi injector/coil failure.. then a 5 buck spark plug test light will do for checking the coils. Just pop em off and insert the test light, its just a short plug wire with a light.

for the injectors, you could rig these with quick disconnects, ring terminals, and (I'd recommend) 14g awg wire.. all available from the local auto parts place.


I've got a mini female quick disconnect on there for testing pins and such, you'd want a regular size. Just stick the tip of a pocket knife or nail file, whatever into the female to loosen it a bit. That way they wont get stuck on the male terminals on the injectors. (For the fit you might need to adapt this, dont know, so check the injectors first to match the terminal size)
the ring sides will go to the cars battery terminals or surrounding hardware, whatevers easier.

Battery already has your proper voltage and whatnot, so just like testing a relay, once powered it will click. You can also put a little fuel/seafoam ect. Into the top of the injector prior to energizing. That way you could even see atomization.. or just use longer wire and power them in place and youll likely still here the click.

as for fuel pressure, pump failure is more common than pressure regulator failure. When you turn the key in the ignition to the on position, where all the uh-oh lights come on, you will, unquestionably, hear the pump kick on for a few seconds if its working. Think its 3 seconds. Then itll shut off which is also super easy to hear, and thats verified for the fit. If you dont hear it, then you know

to my knowledge theres no inline fuel filter, just the ol screen in the tank affixed to the base of the pump, and unless you're in the boonies or buying downright sketchy gas/had the car sitting for 6 months, i wouldnt worry about fuel clogs. If its a concern, any fuel cleaner should allow the algea-like goo to go through the injectors. They essentially all function as lubes, I've tried manually scrubbing out carbon using seafoam.. no dice, so i dont see a need to be choosey about the brand.

 

Might be oxy-sensor.

 

So you are saying that the chain may have broken and the car lost timing? I am confused here.

 

Wouldn't I see a code on the scanner for o2 sensor though?

 

Thats.. exactly what I'm hoping isnt the case. The chain as you likely know, connects the crankshaft that holds up and controls the motion of your pistons to camshaft that similarly controls the opening and closing of your intake and exhaust valves.. now you may still get a tinsy bit of run time on a cylinder due to one of them having the valves in a position close enough for one cyl to still work.. momentarily.

The engine would still get spark and fuel, the pistons would still have healthy rings, and so I could imagine it possible to get decent compression, at least on the cylinders that are close to the top of their travel/close to the valves.

If it should fail, the valves no longer move, but before dying the crank is still spinning and the pistons still going up and down. That old four-stroke cycle of the pistons no longer has air when its supposed to, exhaust when its supposed to, and depending on how far those valves open up into the cylinder, they can even be hit by a piston before the car stalls.
Now, I'm really hoping this isnt the case for you (a problem that can be caused by bad luck, or overheating, potentially from low oil or coolant) but if it is, you can wind up running through all sorts of other stuff to find your problem is still unresolved. Still has unobstructed airflow up until the valves, still has spark and fuel and possibly no check engine light codes since the surrounding sensors.. should still be healthy.

I dont want to discourage you from checking other routes but would be more surprised to hear that 3 cylinders all failed despite having separate ignition coils. Do check at your discretion, but if things seem fine.. then the chain is a likely culprit. Its silly, since most vehicles with timing chains instead of timing belts are designated by the car's manufacturer as parts that dont need service, ever.

If this is the case, you'd need a new/used/remanufactured cylinder head, courtesy of ebay (found one there a while back for 2 or 300.)

the labor is.. a bit intensive, but its possible that it can be done by a first timer.

before that though, the verification would come from inspecting the engine oil. A relatively painless way to rule out or confirm a terrible thing, and always a good idea when something wild as your situation occurs.
Going back to the cause for such a failure and how heat plays in, it is important to mention that timing chains have a guide/tensioner to keep them from having slack which would allow for a whipping motion (leading to breakage) and also screw up matching the valves with the motion of the pistons. In regular ol production cars something like this happens over time as our engines just dont have the power to snap a chain with an aggressive press on the gas pedal.
Now, these guides, to deal with having a chain rubbing up against them (metal on metal just ain't okay unless the surfaces are perfectly smooth, properly sized, polished, and lubricated) will have plastic molded onto them to handle said rubbing. If the engine gets too hot for too long/too often, the plastic can become brittle and crumbly. Eventually it does crumble and fall away, allowing for that nasty slack and whipping motion that will eventually cause the failure.

whew, that was long-winded, apologies.

 

Pyts, I appreciate you taking the time to explain things in detail.

So yesterday I bought two new coils. I cleared the codes from the car and installed two new ones on the first two cylinders (from right to left, facing the engine. I don't know what numbers they actually are). I fired the car up, it went back into limp mode at idle, and it ran for about 30 seconds before if sputtered out. I removed the new pack from cylinder one and replaced it with the original one and then swapped the new one into cylinder 3, basically leapfrogging cylinder 2. I reinstalled, cleared the codes, and the car started up and ran perfect at idle for a few minutes. No limp mode, no CEL, no weird noises (other than a bit of valve chatter since its cold here in MD), no weird smells or smoke or anything. I was thrilled! So I drove it around the neighborhood for about 10 minutes. Everything worked perfect. No hesitating or sputtering, it shifted perfect. I parked it and let it sit for a few hours because I had other stuff to do. I went back out to button up the cowl and everything, and started it again, and the damn thing went right back into limp mode with flashing CEL, idling really rough, but still not sounding terrible.

I don't get it. How could it have run perfect for 20+ minutes and driven perfect, and then a few hours later its crap again? At least I now know the timing chain is fine and all that, but WTF??? Do I need to be looking at electrical connections? I have already visually inspected everything I can think of, but I'm not real savvy with a multi meter, not to mention I would have no idea what kind of numbers I am looking for.

This damn car is really bringing me down, and I desperately want to be rid of this car. Might even make me steer away from Honda from here on out to be honest. The fact that they refuse to issue recalls on these obvious issues makes me no want to ever give them a dime again.

 

Sounds like an electrical issue.

How many miles on the car? What was the condition of original coils and original spark plugs?

If the plugs were worn, then the coils have to work very hard to produce spark. If the plugs leaked and the coils look wet or smoky, then they may have suffered from heat. Either way can kill coils.

Also get your battery load tested at a local store as low voltage can cause wonky performance.

You should buy a DMM and do a voltage drop test under load to see if a bad connection or ground is bad; it is very cheap and easy to do and you can find a beginner tutorial in my posts to get you started.

You might clean out major electrical connections and refit (e.g. from battery to alternator to grounds to computers to ignition system to grounds). Then redo the voltage drop test.

 

Good thread on Fit coil packs

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-...e-answers.html