Oh man nooooo! Oh, i looked up and found a used head on ebay for you a while back, 200 bucks... not bad.. jesus im so sorry to hear all that. We need to start bothering honda to make this a f*ckin recall. I'll go talk to my friends at the local dealer and see whats up.
Thats such a bummer man. Now I'm starting to wonder about this car. And seriously hoping that copper spray a gasket can be promising for the future. I'll make sure to report back. Paul, if you need any help hit me up.
​​​​​

 

damn that sucks. hopefully after the head replacement you will be set. im sure it goes without saying, but id use new plugs and consider practicing my "single use" idea. denso ik22 (4) packs are usually cheaper on ebay around $20 vs buying singles.

i definitely appreciate the pictures. thanks for taking the time. its great to be able to see the internals. if you are able to, pics of all angles of the old head would be awesome...as we dont really have any of our gen on the site. that way maybe we can get a better understanding of what might be going on internally with both the spark plugs and also the valves (residue, blow-by, pcv seepage effects). pcv wise, so far with my catch can i think im primarily catching fuel. im not sure if its a normal amount, but perhaps the valves are not getting as gunked up from oil as i assumed. also see if you notice any cracks on the head that may cause the plug loosening syndrome.

this type of thing sucks, but realistically pretty much every car make and model has its quirks i guess. i just wish with our cars it was something easier and cheaper to take care of, like idk..the glove box door breaks or something.. not the heart of the car.

 

That alternator looks so easy to change like that. You might consider that, not that you want to spend any more money.

 

I have the head in my trunk. When I get the car back this weekend, I will inspect it and take as many photos as I can. I'll make a separate thread and take requests.

I'm not sure yet. My uncle is the mechanic that is working on it, so I will be getting a family rate, but I'll try to find out what the normal rate for something like this is. I'll also have a complete list of what was done, which I'll share. My goal is gather as much knowledge as possible on these issues and share them to help anyone who wants to fix this on their own.

 

To avoid this issues, we are going to tackle the sparkplugs in 2011 Fit Sport Auto with 64k miles next week. Looking for longest-lasting, no maintenance solution.

I think we will use the Denso 3401 (Iridium Long life = skj20dr-m13) which is on the recommended list at densoautoparts.com. Considered the Iridium TT but those just seem to be lower quantity of exotic metal and I only saw one person here using the TT. Not looking for "power." Use in northern environments so frigid winter and hot summers.

We will clean the threads, consider a drop of blue threadlocker, tighten to around 15ft lbs. Before starting, we will buy the three clip types for the top panel recommended here.

The blue threadlocker requires a day to set. Is there a problem running the engine during that period?

EDIT- Or maybe 20ft lbs with a small amount of anti-seize per Pyts' photo below. Note: some spark plug makers mandate no anti-seize on shiny threads as they are already treated.

 

If it says to wait a day to set, you goooottttaaa. Much like silicone (high temp rtv could substitute thread locker if you make sure not to glob on too much n get it in the cylinder) if you dont wait the *full* 24 hours, you're wasting your time. man, fuck. Noticed oil on one of your cylinders... This probably means i need an oil catch too. Such bs. Oh that i had type R money.. still, drives nice n its not full of styrofoam like a vw.

*and whats this about clips?

 

haha. see first page of this thread SiXiam

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-...ml#post1420387

 

I'll check out the clippy thing a little later. In the mean time I got news, gents. Spent 45 minutes at the dealer talkin to a honda service manager about our spark plugs specifically. Honda, of course, aint gonna help us, but me n him are gonna become well aquainted. ​​​​​For everyone whose had plugs come loose, please let me know what plugs you had that did. I'm cross referencing the the PNs and comparing the specifications and materials used to that of the OEM plugs based on my own vin. If you send me yours I can head to honda with a list to see if the plugs vary based on year, month, and manufacturing plant. My service manual says theyre the same HOWEVER it also specifies the torque at 13 footpounds. The print out I was JUST handed from honda specifies 20 footpounds and instructs use of anti seize!!!



when i finish my word document logging characteristics of plugs I'll.. post it up on here somehow
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​​​​​​*EDIT: 1, ohh those clips! Definitely. Theyre dirt cheap on rockauto.. i rep that site a lot cuz brand name parts for cheap.. Theyre crazy expensive through dealers. I'm actually going to try and, with a sh*t eating grin, heat weld some more plastic onto those and see if I can make em more substancial since that cowl comes off so much. Stupid but fun.

2, as for the anti-seize, I checked the ik22 plugs ive been running, same materials as the stock plugs, just a different plug head/gap. They loosened with anti seize, hopefully thats the reason.
you can find a wealth of information on plugs Here

 

Somewhat frustrating that a decade on, the loose spark plug issues have not been resolved. . .

 

I can't find these clips on rockauto. I tried the part numbers referenced on page 1 and a few keywords (e.g. clip). If you have easy access to the part numbers on rockauto that would be helpful as we could get everything shipped in one box. If numbers are not handy, don't worry. Thanks.

 

I coulda swore they had other clippies, but they do stock the dorman clones of the grill and splash shield push ins https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/honda,2012,fit,1.5l+l4,1502550,body,bumper+cover+r etainer,690
My apologies..
i'll take a look around to see if i can actually help

 

When I changed the plugs on my 09 I saw no signs that the plugs were ever loose. Coil packs looked more wore than the plugs.
That said I'm glad I changed mine and torqued it to what I felt comfortable. This forum made me sweat bricks
16 days of owning the car then I changed them. Sounds funny now.

 

At 7years and 107K my #4 plug was loose enough to have blowby on the coil. Here's the vin:
JHMGE88219C004685

I replaced with NGK IZFRK13 and tightened to 13 lbft with no anti-seize. 2 years later and 37K no issues, but I think changing every 50K might be in order here...

I'll try 20lbft with anti-seize at that point. (ETA: or not, depends on how these come out, but I don't think I'll wait for it to be 214K...)

 

I got my car back today, and it drives a little better and sounds a lot better. Here is a list of everything that was done:

Engine Head replaced with a used head
4x new Spark Plugs
Valve Adjustment
New belt
New Lost motion Springs
New Head Gasket

The total cost was $1,725.00 for all of this work. The shop attempted to rebuild my head at a machine shop, but the threaded insert wouldn't seat properly. My uncle told me it took the shop half a day to take apart the engine and over a full work day reassembling it. (This shop mainly works on higher end vehicles, so there may have been unfamiliarity with the Honda Fit, but I know it would've taken me a lot longer to do this work in my carport.) I'm hoping this fixes all of my engine issues so I can work on more fun projects on my car.

 

Did a bit more "research" on this. Nothing is very clear or easy or conclusive.

** Maybe we will NOT use locktite for the sparkplugs (see below). Probably trying the revised torque spec of 20 lbf with very small amount of anti-seize as noted by @Pyts above. Indeed that does seems rather high, maybe analogous to roughly 25 lbf dry.

** Bridge engineer who works with lots of bolts said ultra-important to clean threads in head before installation to get valid torque specs.

CLUES FROM DENSO
The Denso site indicates the 3401 (SKJ20DR-M13)
"seat type - flat"
"hex size - 16.0
I think the KJ indicates thread diameter / hex size (14x16.0)

Denso seems to indicate in this page Spark Plug Installation | DENSO Auto Parts

1. Plug size (14mm FLAT SEAT) Aluminum Head (15-22 lb-ft)

2 ."Note: The installation torque values shown above apply to new spark plugs without lubricating the threads. If threads are lubricated, the torque value should be reduced by approximate 1/3 to avoid overtightening."

I suppose that "plug size" refers to thread diameter but not sure. Also "lubricating" might mean adding anti-seize. Not quite sure.
Spark Plug Part Numbering | DENSO Auto Parts

LOCKTITE UNRESOLVED QUESTIONS
- Can't reliably recalculate torque?
- Performance falls significantly in "hot strength" and "heat ageing" per old data sheet below?
- Potential problem removing spark plugs in the future?
- Potential increase in electrical resistance to ground?
- Galvanic corrosion impact unknown?
- Thermal insulation runs plugs hotter?

http://www.chiptronics.com.my/brands...age/242-EN.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20131104...1antisieze.pdf

 

this is exactly the kind of information im working to provide through comparing the specifications of plugs used by individuals who experienced plug looseness/ejection to that of stock spark plugs.
if enough accounts of this issue are provided to me I may be able to make a better case when talking to honda about the seriousness of this issue. The document I've been writing up has proven to be quite the undertaking as between manufacturers NGK and DENSO there are differences regarding information provided in regards to plug composition (NGK doesnt disclose as much). I'm also attempting to explain each specification EX: reach, heat range, electrode shape ect... so that everyone can be on the same page here and have better comprehension of plugs to potentially yield their own information pertaining to this issue.
for a dumb guy who technically didnt graduate highschool, this is an undertaking and, well, this may take a little bit and not be perfect (despite my efforts). So please sit tight and be patient.
the vins are just one part of the arguement against us that I was given. Making each stock plug a variable while assuming that our aftermarket replacements are flawed makes it a lot harder for us to say they screwed up.. even if we cant win here, hopefully we can resolve the issue for ourselves.

as a show of good faith heres my vin: JHMGE8G32CC031721

​​​​​the porcelain does run through the plug to the tip so I wouldnt worry about electrical resistance from thread locker, however I would worry about heat transfer between the plug and head, which is why I leaned toward the copper head gasket spray. It also claims that it serves to prevent seizing. I still dont know if its a good idea.
i certainly take no issue with the idea of cleaning out threading on the cylinder side. Its easy enough to make a chaser by taking an angle grinder to an old plug (although the ceramic innards do make me nervous). There would still be the issue of rigging something to get the junk outta the cylinders. A proper compressor with a blower tip may do the job, but lacking a compressor I may try to use the exhaust port from a clean strong shop vac... for thread tapping some old timers just leave the one plug out and run the car for a minute to pop out the shavings, but since we're talking goo...
anyways. Solid contribution man, and I appreciate it. I'll check out your links in a bit

Edit: as a fun little add on here, one of the young mechanics gave me a bit of a hard time about using thread locker under the premise of getting debris in the cyls. I asked him if the dirt was worse than an ejection. He then decided to leave the conversation to the grown-ups. It made me laugh at least.

 

Thanks @Pyts .

Below is a live video from a bridge engineer who works with high-rated bolts frequently. Video is focused on engine head bolts and is a bit stream-of consciousness so not too formal. Lots of the same issues for spark plugs.

This guy is good at taking tough technical info and making practical sense. A few super helpful links. It is getting me to a "decent" level of awareness on torque, clamping force, failure, lubrication, etc. quickly.

 

This is all very interesting. I have a 2011 and I had a plug blown out at 56k miles and luckliy got a brand new head under warranty. Im now at 184K and have not had a problem since but I am wondering now if I should check my plugs.

 

​​​​​​those sobs i actually read somewhere while digging (it can be a headache) that there was a tsb for certain second gen fits for the spark plugs. It claimed that the factory didnt torque them properly. The given solution, as I recall, was for the owner to torque them. Did you buy the car new?

 

Yes. Brand New in Jan 2011. After I crashed my 07. And I was following the maintenance schedule. It was suspicious to me at the time that it happened right after i took it in for an oil change and inspection where they dumped injector cleaner in it also I think. Wasn't too relevant because it got taken care of regardless and they were pretty good about it. But it adds a lot of interesting context to the situation.