To the best of my knowledge, that is correct. There continues to be debate regarding the use of anti-seize, of which I am sure you are aware. Beyond that, I cannot state with certainty that your Canadian Fits (O, Canada! I love Canada. ) are identical in specification to USDM.

Happy trails. Come visit us. We have many great and historical roads in Southern California.

 

I'm always glad to see an update on this topic. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

Thanks skidsteer226, good to have that confirmation.
As I get near to the Tribunal hearing I know I need as much as possible in writing, and for specs a copy of the printed information from Honda or other recognised source is best.

For the original 13ftlb Pyts provided the original Bishko service manual page which is great.

For the current 20ftlb I have screen shots of the Haynes Youtube video 'Honda Fit 07-13 - How to replace the spark plugs' video which shows the spec in big block letters. The only thing I can't find on the video is the date to prove it came out around when the Tech Line Summary Article came out (or later).

 

3 weeks to go to a tribunal hearing for compensation, and just to throw a cat among the pigeons I got something different today. It takes away one of my arguments if its right.
Went to my local Honda dealer in Australia and asked them what the spark plug torque spec is to do the job myself on my son's old GE8 Jazz. Gave them the VIN to define the right engine, L15a7 and the service manager tells me the torque is "18-20 Nm and then a bit more"...(13-15 ftlb). That's straight out of their current service specs.

So why is it differrent -- 27Nm (20ftlb) on the Haynes youtube video, and the spec found elsewhere?

Now I know there was one other posted Australian spark plug blow out, Dxs post 116 on this thread, so it does happen here. But why is the torque spec still the original in Australia, or close to it ?? I didn't think our internet was that slow!
I feel like some dark force is plotting to cut me off at the pass..(sorry for the mixed references!)

If the engines are the same, the only reason I can think of is due to different laws here: consumer law (easier for consumer to prove liability on companies); and service data laws (less requirement to publish internal service info), resulting in Honda Aus foxing us with what appears to be the 'same' torque 18-20NM which is a 10% increase, but also has a subtle hint to their techs to add a 'bit more'. That way they get to say' its the same, nothing to see here', and they don't have to admit liability for any spark plugs that do pop out. Remember in Aus the tech line summary article is not available outside the Honda network. Of course I may also be turning into a conspiracy theorist!
Im tired and confused. Anyone have any ideas?

 

I'll see about heading to a local dealer to get a print-out.
Something I think you'll have to verify is that the engines are the same as in the U.S., and so are the spark plugs. I think the difference in torque values, plus the ambiguity of "a little more" is damning. I assume that "a little more" isn't written anywhere though. Their explanation of the difference, which I imagine would require they be afforded additional time to collect information to explain (assuming everything else goes smoothly), seems like the determining factor to me.

I can already hear an American judge: You didn't submit your documents in advance. the case will be postponed until January. Next. January.

 

I am not a professional auto mechanic, but I've been working on cars for a while, and I have never heard of this one. It is hard to imagine that anyone would write a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) using language like that. I'd like to see it in print.

Good luck.

 

Me too, now.

Got a reach out from stepdaughter early afternoon - check engine light, can't accelerate over 40kph. Fortunately, fairly close to home base, although we have several feet of snow and wind chill temps are about -20C right now. Drove out with a bluetooth OBD dongle and found misfire cyl 1 logged though no CEL on restart. Engine sounded a little off. Felt the top of the cyl 1 coil back and could feel it thump while #2 and #3 did not. Well - it's happened...

Gingerly get it back to my home garage. Since it was cyl 1 I managed to do all the work without pulling the cowl. Found it about 3.5 turns loose.

But - if #1 picked today to loosen, what about the others? Chose not to try to check #2 without removing cowl - too easy to drop tools, bolts etc... Debated whether to drop it off at a mechanic with a warm shop, spare plastic clips etc... or forge ahead.

Chose to forge ahead. Broke both A-pillar clips. Broke 2 of the 9 cowl cover clips. Found #4 was also 1.5-2 turns loose. #2 and #3 were tight.

 

Those clips are impossible -- Don't feel bad about that. I've found that the hood hinge covers (A pillar covers) work fine for me without the clips, though on the way to fine I lost 3 of them on the highway. Kept replacing. Weren't too expensive like $11

 

My 2 loose spark plugs were the exact opposite!. Cylinders 2 and 3. I just did the plugs and coil packs while I was in there and I also broke some cowl clips. I ordered some cheap ones and they showed up a couple weeks ago but it's too cold here too to replace them. We hit -37C here last night and that's the raw temperature, not the wind chill (-51C)! Supposed to be even colder tonight, -38C!

 

I don't feel bad at all . Actually I thought it was pretty good for largely unknown past history (I found cyl #3 had a different bolt on the coil pack that was barely long enough) and well below freezing LOL.

Yep - you have it far worse than we do. Neither of us have ideal conditions for fooling around with plastic. It was a holiday here yesterday so nothing open. It doesn't need plugs technically, and the coils are working. I'll put replacement on a "spring" maintenance list.

 

Hi fellow fit/jazz freaks. Firstly thanks to all for your effort and support, specially Pyts and Mister Coffee.
My crusade for some compensation after spark plug blowout/engine replacement has dragged on a bit. For those new to this thread, the finger of blame pointed firmly to the Honda service centre that replaced the plugs. I pursued them via the State consumer tribunal.

I was a bit disillusioned after the initial 'conciliation' hearing but thought I should give you an update.
The Conciliator assisting us repeatedly emphasised to me that I would need to present evidence and/or witnesses to the presiding member of a 'Full Hearing' to convince them of my case on 'Balance of Probability'. She seemed to imply I was facing an uphill battle.
The defending company rep just stuck to his line of innocence 'We do services by the book', while showing disbelief in anything I presented. Not even a glimmer of hope for a quick settlement.

I thought long and hard about the evidence I had and the fact the 2 main witnesses had moved interstate and were now not contactable. Also the fact that the onus was on me to prove the case while the company just had to stick to the line 'We always follow the rules and the service data from manufacturer' and 'We are a reputable company'.
The possible outcomes at a Full Hearing..
- fully convincing 100% = Win and probably full compensation,
- only 49% convincing = Fail and no compensation,
-even if 51% convincing = Win but probably not much compensation.

Many of you will have guessed it was all too hard! The time and effort to prepare for the hearing on top of impossibility to get a witness or 2 online at the right time was all too much so I chucked it in. There was also the possibility of 'winning' the balance of probability but getting stuff all compensation for all the effort.

Well at least I have a better understanding of how that legal stuff works, not something I have ever been involved with before and hope I never have to in the future!

Many thanks again for your efforts, this forum is a truly great resource with some pretty clever people contributing!

Now Im going to get on with a more constructive aim, fixing up an old Boxster for track use!

 

Its me again. I am in Australia.

Just bought a 2012 GE8 (Jazz Vibe S - Japan built) with 165,000km.

Did a spark plug change. Cylinder 3 spark plug was loose. And a lot of carbon on the coil pack.

So definitely a common issue. I have 2 different GE8s. As mentioned before, 2008 thailand built and now the 2012 japanese built.. both having loose sparks.


added pic

 

Just replying years later as I am back in this thread..

I think it is easy to say on the internet. But I dont know how you would drill the hole for the insert when the head is like 20cm from the firewall - and the spark plugs are on a certain angle. And prevent shavings etc. Different metals in the head etc, I wouldnt have confidence in it

Yes in theory putting in an insert that works out without any drama would be easier.

But the engine swap took me 1 day. Engine used was only 500 AUD ish as mentioned. I think Fit/Jazz used parts are more expensive in USA so its a different ball game.

 

also.. just for the record.. i have now been torquing the spark plugs to 30nm and do not use anti seize.

also.. i try to torque them every oil change (10,000km). While the oil is draining i take the wipes and cowl off etc to access the plugs. Its a bit of a pain but can do it fairly quickly now.

 

Doesn’t seem like something you should have to do… also 30nm is 21ft/lb that’s a lot for an aluminum cylinder head.

 

I am trying to remember . . . wasn't Honda's revised spec 20 ft./lbs.?

 

could be, when I changed mine I torqued to 16 ft/lb I believe, that was months ago now, I MAY have bumped it to 18ft/lb my memory can’t decide if that’s a false memory or legit… regardless, 20 ft/lb is a lot for a threaded hole this size in aluminum. Doesn’t take to much more to pull exhaust studs out of an aluminum head….

Ask me how I know, and how I learned to check the book don’t just assume a very smart long time mechanic is telling you the right rating. (Was told 30, never got there and to be fair he thought it was an iron head, one drill, tap and helicon later lol..)

 

I thought that 15 ft/lb was the original spec. 16 isn't much of a jump up.

You may know more about all this than I do, but in the last 50 years I have never come close to "pull[ing] exhaust studs out of an aluminum head." In fact, the first time I changed the spark plugs on my '13 (at approximately. 40k miles.), the #4 was torqued in so tight from the factory that I had to use an extension on my wrench.

I tighten spark plugs by feel. The plug uses a crush washer. Crush the washer and you're done.

Torque wrenches are useless (not to say dangerous) unless you calibrate them right before using them.

 

I believe it was 26-27 ft/lb when suddenly things stopped getting tighter on a 4G63 cylinder head many many moons ago (I was 17), and while 26-27 isn't 20, depending on the length of the racket's "arm" and where your hand is on it, 5 to 6 ft/lb extra can be hard to notice going over 16-18 which would be getting dangerously close from my experience. Obvious stud size matters as well, a 7/16" stud can take more than a 3/8" and a 3/8" stud can take more than a 1/4" stud as it's biting into more material.

At the end of the day, I'm just urging caution, while at the same time recommending using a torque wrench. It's your car and your engine, it's no skin off my nose if something happens, I just know it would be very difficult to drill and tap a hole back there without pulling the engine, or at least partially to get it rotated to where maybe you could get an angle head attachment on your a hand drill, to bore a larger hole to then tap and install a helicoil all over getting a little to eager with it.

(Luckily on the 4G63, it was a 1990 car so, exhaust to the front, easy to access and fix.)

 

I'm hitting the "Like" button on this.