Hey folks! I have two 2011 GE8's- an MT for me, and an AT for the wife. Bought them both new. Last November, my wife's AT sat for like 3 days and when she went to start it, it wouldn't. Plenty of battery power- it cranked over just fine, Starter was fine, but its like it wasn't getting fuel. I pumped the gas like it was an old carbureted engine and after several tries (letting the starter cool down) if finally sputtered and started. It has started and run fine since then. She drove it Saturday about noon, but then not again until Monday morning. She goes to leave for work and its the same thing. I come out and again while cranking it, pump the gas a bunch. It takes three tries and finally begins to sputter and start. After work, it started fine.

I live in Indiana. The car always parks in a warm garage. The gas tank is full (or full enough). It has sat other times for similar spans of time.

So, Fuel filter? Fuel pump? its not like the carburetor bowl is drying out on a snowblower... What the heck could it be??

Thanks so much!

jeff

 

Might be injectors?

Or, it might be a momentary low voltage 'confusing' the ECU.

To see if it is the latter: Totally turn off ignition . Count to 10-Mississippi. Then try again without touching the gas.

Our CR-V has occasionally done this since new. Always starts after 'clearing it's throat'.

 

Winter fuel blends combined with either unseasonably warm weather or parking in a heated garage can certainly cause hard cold starting and unstable initial running. They usually run fine once that initial startup coughs to life and clears itself out, then may be hard to start again the next morning.

Make sure you are using low octane gas.
Stay away from high octane gas, the antiknock qualities can cause hard starts and rough initial running too.

 

Could be low fuel pressure, depending on mileage, could be the coils or the spark plugs, EGR system, maf sensor, TPS sensor, crank/knock sensor, etc.

If you are not sure what I am talking about or do not know how to check those, take it to the mechanic. Guessing will not help.

 

Thanks guys! I guess the most confusing part is that its very intermittent.

If the injectors are bad, why aren't they always bad? The car has about 55k miles on it- we use my MT for traveling and such.

We always use just regular unleaded gas, never bother with high octane. Maybe if it doesn't ever happen in the summer, the winter blend/warm weather will be the diagnosis. When it happened in November (winter blend) it was a warm day because I was out cutting trees in a T-shirt. That's the one consistent thing...

John, I am familiar with those things, but gosh, to trouble shoot that stuff just seems tough. It hasn't thrown any trouble codes so it'd all be a shot in the dark. I can't imagine putting the car on a computer would reveal anything. Am I wrong? can the dealer's computer pull that kind of info?

I really appreciate all of your input.

 

I'm thinking your answer has confirmed my suspicion.

You have not experienced a problem, you've experienced a phenomenon.

Correct....and no scanner of any kind would ever be able to tell anyone anything if there is nothing wrong.

A scanner can't tell anyone what kind of fuel is in the tank of your car.



My answer comes from experience, no scanner has that.
I think very few mechanics/techs in any shop, dealer or independent, would come up with the same answer.

 

I would bet on a issue like a bad ground or fouled fuel injectors, try running some techron or sea foam through the engine.. You may have also got a load of bad/old gas and once you get a lot of grunge in there it can take a lot of fuel to clean it out.

Check the engine ground cables and battery connections, your also describing the symptoms of a battery that hasn't died yet ,, but is aging out..

Start with the simple stuff and work up..

 

It wouldn't surprise me if its the battery- My dad, who has an identical car- came in on the same delivery, just had to have his battery replaced. So, maybe it's starting to lose its capacity. On the other hand, I cranked the engine over 3 or 4 times, and each length was...gosh...15 seconds maybe. I mean, thats a lot of battery power, and the battery didn't seem to slow the cranking rate as it went on. I don't know. maybe it has enough reserve power, but not a high enough voltage?? I know the battery is a goofy size- any brand suggestions?

 

Battery sounds fine to me.

 

Battery has nothing to do with this if the engine is cranking. Read the original post.
Pressing the accelerator pedal on the fuel injected engine has 0 effect.
The OBDII scanner is a good start. The engine light might not be on but you might still see some codes stored.

Do not guess. Do not put snake oil in it (aka seafoam, which will damage your catalytic converter and O2 sensors).

When the engine is not starting, it's either the ECM that controlls the ignition is malfunctioning, the associated sensors (that I described above) or there is insufficient fuel pressure/supply.

Your car needs a proper diagnostic procedure done to it, not guessing. But if you want to start throwing parts at it and listen to those who guess, go ahead, it's your money.

 

Well, I got an ELM327 bluetooth scanner (which is very cool BTW), and it didn't have any codes stored. also, the car has had zero issues since...

I'm baffled. If it doesn't happen again until next fall (winter fuel) that's going to have to be my conclusion.

 

It's not baffling once you've experienced it many times on many different cars, and understand it's due to the winter blend fuel in an environment that's warmer than expected.

When a customer complains about hard starting/long crank time in the winter, the very first question I ask is, "Do you park in a heated garage?".

My service manager used to drive a 03 Civic SI, he would park in the shop (70+ degrees F) on a weekend in the dead of winter (well below freezing) then it would be hard as heck to start on monday morning....and he would usually try to make someone check it out, waste a bunch of time on it....and I'd just lean against the toolbox and laugh because nobody can figure out his problem.
I kept telling him why it happens--- and none of your guys can fix it because it isn't a problem....

 

How is the winter blend fuel explaining trouble starting?
Can you provide any links?

 

And actually, according to this article, winter blend is more volatile, to help ignite in cold weather. So if anything, it would be easier to start on winter gas. (The molecules are shorter, so the gas will not give as many miles per gallon, but it's a different consequent).

https://itisscience.wordpress.com/20...-a-difference/

Seems like the issue with OP's car has nothing to do with gasoline.

Many systems have intermittent problems... that may have sometime to do with sticking valves, cables, even lose connections, which will only create a problem at some times and not the others.

 

Remember, OP is dealing with winter fuel in an unseasonably warm condition.

I had to learn about the problem long before everyone had internet, so it took me a second of searching to find relevant info:

Spring a pain in the gas - tribunedigital-chicagotribune

 

Very good article. Back in the 60s, we (teenage shade tree mechanics) always considered "vapor lock" as a potential issue but after mechanical gas pumps went the way of the dinosaurs and were replaced with electric fuel pumps, fuel rails, and return lines to the gas tank, it sort of dropped out of our lexicon.

I now see that it is alive and well. Thanks again for the linked article