Hey everyone, I've been looking for a low mileage Honda Fit at a reasonable price and I thought I found the perfect car. 2016 Honda Fit EX-L manual transmission, 35000km, private purchased from originak owner for $13750CDN. No accident, no check engine light but I found 3 codes using BlueDriver OBD2 scanner.

1. Confirmed code
P1072 System Too Rich Bank 1

2. Pending code
P0833 - Clutch pedal switch "B". Circuit Short to battery
3. Pending Code
C0077L - LowTire Pressure. Alignment or Adjustment Incorrect

The car was purchased in 2017, seeing as how it's still covered under Honda Basic Warranty. I asked that he take it to the dealership for a diagnostic. They said since the engine light is not on, the car is running fine.

What do you guys think I should do? Am I correct to assume any problem related to the car running rich would be covered under Honda Warranty?

 

Welcome. There are a few other problems with the 2015-16 models you should be aware of before proceeding, if anecdotal reporting here is any indication.

Specifically, the fuel injector + rail; starter on pushbutton start models; and VTC actuator are all known to be problem areas.

With the injectors, the 2015 design proved defective and was redesigned for 2016. All 2015s and the first few thousand 2016's have the defective design. When they failed within warranty, they were replaced. Problem is, if they failed just after the warranty expired, Honda couldn't be expected to goodwill anything toward repair. Since the injectors have to be purchased in flow-matched quads (can't buy just one), you're out $1500 just for parts in many instances, and $2-3K repairs are not uncommon.

Starters are also failing in and out of warranty, esp. on the pushbutton models. Nowhere near as expensive a repair, and sometimes Honda has goodwilled all or part of the repair, but sometimes not.

VTC actuators: When these go, they sound horrible on first startup, but apparently they don't have any negative effect other than a grinding noise. Don't necessarily need to replace, but a lot of people will not want to live with that grinding sound.

In my mind, the first two are serious issues, the third just annoying. Do some research on this subforum to get a better feel for what's going on here. Then you can decide whether to pursue a used one given all the above.

 

Are coil packs an issue with the 2015 early ‘16 models as well?

 

Haven't heard anything about early coilpack failure on the 2015-16s. Thankfully, one area that seems to not have issues.

 

That’s great actually, I had to replace 3 within the first 6 months of owning this 1st gen + other issues (leaksssss)

 

@bargainguy: Good post. Thanks.

I'm shocked, dismayed and disappointed to see quality issues like this in a Honda. Don't know how I'm going to talk myself into getting my third Fit.

Care to comment on problems associated with direct injection? I'm thinking of carbon build-up issues.

 

Everywhere I have read about The first set of gks (2015-2016) have been about bad problems with carbon build up

 

Carbon buildup on this engine is the least of my worries. It's certainly not as bad as it is on some European marques, where walnut shell blasting is the order of the day. No, I'm more concerned with the injectors than anything else.

 

What year is your car, and how many miles do you have on it?

 

2016 LX with 52K. Running Top Tier and crossing my fingers.

 

I said this before; I am going to say this again .... this fit needs 91 premium badly! I just got the P0420 catalyst system efficiency below threshold (2016 ex-l) and my service advisor strongly recommended switching to 91 from shell. Given I have experience with this type of switch on my former 2015 fit ... I made the switch after the dealer reset the CEL ... and it did not come back on in 400+ kms. So far so good. I don't mind paying the premium for better quality gas ... but it should not have to be like this. I am seriously starting to consider trading in ... port injection here I come.

 

Please don't take this as an attack - I just want to understand.

Are you saying you have been using 91 octane for 400 km and because the light hasn't come back on in 1 tank of gas, 91 octane = solved injector problems?

I just don't think that's enough time for a conclusion. I've had EGR CEL's come on and after a fresh tank of gas disappear for a month, and then reappear, eventually being solved by some random vacuum leak solved with a zip tie. I just don't think there's enough data here to make a conclusion yet.

You said the service advisor recommended Shell 91 - Was this direct from Honda? Do you have this in writing? I would LOVE to discuss this with Honda with a copy of that statement from the dealer.

 

Yeah I don't think it's a long term solution. Here's thread where a guy tried numerous things before he eventually did the fuel injectors. Every time he did something, he'd be able to drive for a while and then the CEL would come on again.

VALVE ADJUSTMENT - *SOLVED* - Misfires eliminated by replacing injectors

LOL he even mentioned that in his opinion, that higher octane gas wouldn't make a difference.

 

a p0420 just came on, in my 2000 insight at 186k. I'll take one for the team gents... I'll clear it, and start pumping shell 91 oct. i'll report back

but it'll be a while, this baby gets 50+ mpg, thats over 500 miles per tank! with some more maint, eventually will slap on eco tires, and once I learn how to drive this thing, my goal is 60 mpg!

 

No offense taken.
That is indeed exactly what I am saying ... switch to shell 91 = solved injector problems. It's not the octane that solves the problems. It's the quality of the gasoline. For the record before the quoted $3000 P0420 fix ... my dealer replaced the upstream O2 sensor due to a different code and a slightly different CEL phenomena i.e. CEL would come on ... and go off next day or day after. This happened several times over the past few months with mileages in between cels ranging from several hundreds kms to over 2000kms. So my dealer replaced my upstream O2 sensor ... and the CEL came back on in less than 1000kms. For the record the car never hesitated or stumbled... always ran fine.

My service advisor is a pretty knowledgeable guy and he always uses 91 from shell precisely to keep these issues from becoming issues... and it works. I told him my 3 year experience with my 2015 fit and we were on the same page. He told me that other Hondas (not all) such as the Pilot also suffers from the same issues with all sorts of CELs coming on due to cheap quality gas being used and as a dealer it drives them nuts when they have to write "bad gas" as the issue on their paperwork. He knows customers get pissed about that but the fundamental issue here is that Honda designed a product that does not fare well with north american 87 octane top tier gas. This is really the issue at the core. Of course dealers don't like that.

While I don't have the recommendation for the 91 octane switch in writing.... what I look at is that the service advisor is trying to genuinely help me out. After my commitment to 91 I promised him that I would get back to him to report even if the CEL does not come back on. He wrote off the diagnosis fee and gave me a free battery replacement for my fob. He's a really nice guy and he really was trying to give me genuine advice from his experience. From my research and personal experience ... shell 91 (at least in canada) is indeed the best quality fuel $ can buy (and is more expensive than other competitors 91) and in my humble personal opinion ... it's worth it. It just never occured to me to use it during my 31k ownership experience with the low rpm'd CVT fit. I figured it would not need it. I kept using 91 on my 2015 fit MT because of the smiles per gallon I was getting... and I loved it. I never thought that after the 2015 got the injectors replaced my switch to 91 would possibly keep the CEL from coming on ... I was CEL free for 60k+ miles after injector replacement.

Anyhow. .. bottom line is that these few hundred kms I have under my belt with 91 octane are nowhere near an indication that this is solving my issue. But given the prevalent issues with injectors ... still ... even for 2018 fits ... I am still considering getting rid of the car before I have to shell out $2k for injectors and $3k for a OEM CAT replacement. I will keep you guys posted! I would rather *pun intended* shell out $ at the pump lol.

But I am getting this feeling that the switch to 91 is like a band aid.... a life line of sorts ... a temporary life extension ... smelling those new injectors from a distance.

 

"It's not the octane that solves the problems. It's the quality of the gasoline." If that's the case then it is the VPower's detergent blend and detergent levels that are improving your issue. If it was Octane Number elevation, octane would be in effect reducing knock (premature detonation). I suspect it's the latter - premature detonation. Your car might be be operating on the fringe of no-knock with 91 octane gas: (1) 91 octane is allowing the car to operate with moderate known, (2) the knock sensor hears the knock/ping and retards ignition to the lower part of the range, (3) knock goes away, (4) O2 sensor reads fine now, (5) no adjustments to air/fuel ratio needed, (6) car operates "normally". The only issue is that you may be seeing reduced power and higher than normal engine operating temperature due to the ignition retardation (modern cars don't add more fuel to keep engine temps down and burn that excess in the cat [1]).

[1] Rotary engines add excess stoichiometric levels of fuel to keep the rotary engine temperatures within management limits - the same as piston race car engines. The US EPA doesn't like that.

 

Commander Slug - What brand were you using prior to Shell?

I wonder if ethanol is the key here. In the US top tier gas can (and usually does) contain up to 10% ethanol, which aids with reducing predet/knock. Is ethanol common in canada fuels too?

Even with all of this, we're diagnosing and treating a predetination issue but I don't understand how injector failure is caused by predet. Is there any connection I'm not thinking of here?

Have you ever tried shell 87 instead of shell 91? I don't think shell is a miracle fuel by any means. I've logged hundreds of gallons of fuel on my subaru and every now and then you just get crappier gas at any station. Go to shell's website and there's a link to report "bad gas". That's a possibility anywhere you buy fuel.

Sorry to derail the thread - my advice to the OP is to never buy any car with any CEL that they haven't taken care of. Not guaranteed, but likely they've been trying to get rid of the CEL for a long time and are giving up and selling the car. In CA it's illegal to sell a car that doesn't pass smog. If the CEL is on, the car won't pass smog. Especially when considering the bigger problems that are likely at play here.

 

Fitb2015 2016, I have to change at 39 K and at 52k But I paid 70 dollars for the same brand at ebay , China. I change Coils, ox sensors, map , caT. BUT Because THE INJECTORs of some vin number from México ( Is. A memo). INJECTORS. I CHANGED MY SALFT FRO. youtube class. 70 dollars Good luck