Clay,

I know that you "LOVE" to be the fountain of all Knowledge. And you have made some very Valid points.

I say that your little court trial skit, suggests that the motor vehicle accident was caused by a hold in a frame rail? Or A small weld?

First Off, and you know this, I'm no "internet Mechanic" thank you very much.......

Second, I've seen my fair share of rusting vehicles! ALL of which are still out there on the road as we speak and will NEVER get checked for structural integrity, and have never cause an accident due to the small frame imperfection. MANY body shops repair frames, and put cars back on the road, and the insurance companies don't ask for it to go under any x-rays or whatever you were talking about before re-certifying the vehicle as completed to spec.

Lastly, No hole in a frame is going to be the CAUSE of an accident Period!

YOU Know I'm not one to go back and forth as such Clay, but I had to say just these few things. No Hard Feelings!

And As for Laws go, they are usually based on scientific data that proves something and is then voted on (In most states). As far as the rest of the laws, they are just a "cover my @ss" laws. You are mainly ranting and raving on one of the these types of laws, the "cover the @ss" law.

I truly believe coming from experience, that there will be NO problems down the road! Hasport for the WIN, whether it be track, drags, or even street/daily! KSwap!!! The greatest engines since the Bseries. If it's Kswap Vs. FI, IT's Kswap for the Win!!

This is a performance Honda vehicle thread. If you knew about performance Hondas', then you would know that the US is the pioneers of these swaps, and even Professional Japanese Race car drivers/ teams, have honored and bowed down to Hasport, and the greatest form of flattery is imitation! Even Big Companies Like Honda themselves, (Mugen is a Honda performance co.) Have a K20 Honda Fit Dynamite. Big Honda of America Executive meet with Hasport and admire their work! Honda even provides them with cars at times!

If you don't have anything other than policing to do / say, stay out of it! I thought you retired from that......


YOU ARE ADDING NONSESE to this thread, This is in the, "Fit JDM Tuning, Engine Modifications and Swaps " section of FitFreak.net.

This thread was started to discuss the pros and cons of Each either Kswapped Fit or F.I. Fit For the Honda Fit Performance Minded Audience!!

If it Said advise which is more legal to do, "Kswap Vs. F.I. Fit", then it would be a valid Point to Add. I'm not the only one pointing you out........

 

You make my point for me If that isn't a kiddy attitude what is?? And are you having a hard time comprehending my posts... for the THIRD time I recommended using a Supercharger or Turbo how is than not wanting to have more performance in a FIT just because I disagree with your choice of performance enhancement doesn't mean I'm against any LEGAL performance modification.

And what's up has nobody contacted Hasport yet and find out if their Kits are certified for road use or you did and there NOT.

And like I have said before just because I'm the one who pointed out that your favorite performance enhancement is illegal no need to bite the head off the messenger I DIDN'T MAKE THE LAW ALL I DID WAS TELL YOU GUYS ABOUT IT so take a few chill pills yourself. If you want to drive around on the roads with an illegal vehicle be my guest just don't whine when you have a problem because you have been WARNED.

 

If his car has problem I don't think it is your fxxking business. He made his car works, I bit he could fix his car with out any questions.

It doesn't matter the car illegal or legal, the question that you have to ask yourself is "Is that your car??" If not I think you are the one need to take the pills to keep your mind wake. You like Turbo or supercharge, that's fine, just keep what you have in you stupid mind and shut UP!!!

You know what?? I'm getting sick what you post in this thread. Hopefully, you know here more than 1 person that don't want you post in here anymore.

 

Whoa talk about someone who needs a chill pill. If you bothered to read the posts you will see that I NEVER mentioned anyones car so where did you come up with "if his car has a problem"?????

It's really too bad if you don't like that I'm just pointing out problems with the legality of the Kits and if that makes you unhappy boo hoo.

Like I said if anyone wants to do this there are ways to do it legally but you can't grasp that concept and are whining about something that is of no concern to you because you haven't done it. And like I said I really don't give a crap if anyone does it so feel free to go ahead and DO IT.

It's really funny that you don't like to hear about illegal things and are sick of hearing about it well TFB if this information prevents problems for one member that is enough.

If you don't like my posts it's very simple go to your CP and click on add this member to "my ignore list" and you will never see another post of mine again like the old commercials "say try it you may like it."

 

Gettingafit, sorry if your upset but I never said that the cause of the accident was the modifications BUT it's what happens during an accident with modification to the vehicle that is the point of these posts. That is why the mods need to be crash tested because nobody KNOWS what is going to happen in the cabin as they do with standard cars that have been crash tested and that is why lawyers will have a field day questioning who ever makes these kinds of modifications and that is why they are marked FOR OFF ROAD USE ONLY.

The kit companies lawyers know they have problems in this area and crash testing is very expensive just to try to sell a small amount of kits it's just not cost beneficial to spend loads of money to crash test so THEY ATTEMPT TO SPREAD THE LIABILITY TO THE END USER BY HAVING THESE DISCLAIMERS AND PROTECT THEMSELVES.

And you are barking up the wrong tree talking about rusty cars I'm not the one to complain to send your complaints to your state legislature and the insurance companies I DID NOT MAKE THESE LAWS AND JUST POINTED THEM OUT I never said I agree with them or disagree with them. So please direct your rants toward the laws not at me for bringing them to members attention.

 

i guess simply put, no one needed you to do so.

everyone in this thread: (including gettinafit) am i wrong in saying that we are all pretty much aware of what an engine swap or non carb legal turbo/supercharger setup does? I am at least.


You have done more than just 'let us know what the law' says. you have infiltrated this thread with something other than what we need to be discussing. if letting us know what the law is really is all that was/is on your agenda, why keep babbling on if not a single one of us wants to 'get it' ?

Not to mention your condescending tone is a bit irritating as is your insulting of people younger than you gramps.


As far as F.I. goes, only the base supercharger kit from Kraftwerks will be carb legal....and thats if your fit remains bone stock and has no other bolt ons. Same goes for the Aj kit; there is only one version, again, that will be emissions friendly.

Every other F.I. kit has this offroad warning you speak of, and the kswap is a given, common knowledge understanding sort of thing.


Again, if your job was to let us know what the law is, thanks, you've gone above and beyond the call of duty. We don't HAVE to like what you say, we don't HAVE to heed what you say, we don't HAVE to agree (oh claymore you are so right, what were we thinking!??) with what you say. Is that what you are waiting for? I think the few of us who have come out and said that what you are saying is valid should be enough to satisfy your craving of implied respect.

Now please stop crapping on this thread and let us discuss what we really are in this thread for. If you have nothing else to contribute to the Kswap vs. FI discussion, then like it was said before: LEAVE.

 

Good one.... posts like yours are the reason I have to keep posting so you just added another one and I have just as much right as any other member to post just like you... If you don't like my posts feel free to go to your CP and add my name to the ignore list and you won't have to see any of my posts.

And this information is relevant to this post because it points out the difference between other performance enhancers and the K-20 SWAP and could be of help to members when they decide to pick a system AND WANT TO STAY WITH A LEGAL PERFORMANCE ENHANCER. For that matter there COULD be turbo and supercharger set ups that COULD have the same legal problems you want to discuss them also???

Checking the legality of any modifications is NOT ROCKET SCIENCE any one with a better than 5 grade reading level and comprehension can do it IF THEY WANT TO. All you have to do is head to the library and look up the modification in the general statues or what you call laws in your state ......that simple but one would want to have a legal vehicle to bother and it seems like a bunch of you don't care..... so do it and take the consequences I DON'T GIVE A CRAP.

When the posts that are completely incorrect like someone posting "that it must be OK because loads of people have never had problems" then I won't have to correct them. When you are offering legal advice you should make a reasonable effort to post FACTS not just your opinions about what is legal and what isn't. Most of the posts can't dispute the FACTS of my post but that they are just pissed off that I brought them to light when they wanted to bury their heads in the sand and ignore the illegalities of use off road only designated parts on the roadway.

And what is it about you I have SAID SEVERAL TIMES TO GO AHEAD AND DO WHAT YOU WANT, no need to like what I said, no need to agree, no need to heed the advice (what don't you understand when I posted "I don't give a crap what you do to your car" did you miss that) so when the rants stop my posts will stop not because you said to.

 

To Getting back on to the heart of this thread, and I think leaving behind the last topic since we ALL have agreed on the Answer:

For "Off Road Use Only" statement is, Yes, a way to say that the company has not tested the performance enhancement, nor has it been approved be any legal source, and it is at your own risk on public roads! Everyone I think already knew that, Now it's Extremely Clear!

No option is approved for ON road Use. Any Form of power to weight ratio that is changed is going to bring a car into a different insurance bracket, need to be crash tested, ect.! Even your Made in China HID kits that are on most of our cars, are "For off road use only", so are aftermarket support bars,aftermarket strut tower bars, etc. I hope you all have read the label and understand what you are getting yourselves into with any parts you put on your car. Final!



SO heres the break down:


_______________KSwap____ VS.____ F.I.

HP:_____________ 1______________ 0

Agility:__________ 0 ______________ 1

Worth it:_________ ? _______________? (to each his own)

Crash Tested
For legal ON Road use__ 0 ______________ 0



Next Issue to talk about: "Engine Longevity!"

I think a valid point to discuss is the Engine Longevity factor. The Kswap is a factory Honda Performance enhancement for your Fit, and it alone will give impressive gains starting at 200hp, and still have factory longevity.

A Forced Induced Fit WILL not have a long life if you constantly push the vehicle to receive the HP gains from boost, the stock internals were not meant to handle, nor designed to handle that stress. So things will wear down unless you drive it easy, but then what would be the point of putting in F.I. if you are not going to use it.

I believe in the case of engine longevity A Kswap is the way to go. (Lets Discuss THis PLease from here on...)

 

Mr. Claymore and To Whom It May Concern,

So, are you of a legal profession? How did you know all these information? Are all the information that you have provided valid? Have you left anything out about the legal points that you have suggested about the 'illegal engine swapping and crash tested vehicles'? As shown and quoted from above, you mentioned that we FitFreak-er's dislike the hearings of your warnings and refused to care whether we listen or not, so what is the purpose of your postings? To shoot down the ideas of engine swapping and to promote the idea of installing bolt-on turbos and supercharges? In my opinion, after reading your postings, you seemed quite antagonistic about the motor swapping and seems like you are advertising for the turbo's and supercharges from modifying companies.

As another member had mentioned, motor swapping had been practiced for many years and many car repair shops have done it - especially Honda's. If motor swapping is illegal, wont it mean that all the car shops will get caught in action of motor swapping and shut down. I am pretty sure the government knows that there are all these modified cars out there running around. Even if you have installed turbo kits or supercharge, it doesnt guarantee safety because obviously, we want to modify our cars - which means that we want it to have better performance. If you think about it, there are all these horrible drivers who don't know what they are doing on the road will eventually cause car accidents... its not even about the motor swapping.

So, tell me more about our Fit because I obviously dont know much about vehicles. But one thing I can tell you, I have swapped 2 motors for my cars in the past with turbos as well. My cars were pretty crash-tested because they were so rusty and shakey after the crash-test and it was still fine when I was driving them. Of course, I total-ed my cars, but I am still alive. Lucky me.

P.S. What is the whole chill pill deal? Are you an old lady... I only hear my grandma say that. BTW, I see that you posted a lot on this forum though I only read a few bc it was too long and boring. I dont sit in front of the computer 24/7 waiting for replies to argue with people and write essays to prove your P.O.V. You are probably very worried about our safety. I think since you are so worried about safety, it is best for you to not drive at all. But who knows, people can drive recklessly and you might become a victim of them. But of course, you will most likely say that those recklessly drivers are those with swapped motors and modded cars. Very stereotypical.

Happy New Year my fellow FitFreak-er's!

Sincerely,
HKJazz

 

Posted by hkjazz:

Speaks for itself "Of course, I total-ed my cars, but I am still alive. Lucky me."

"BTW, I see that you posted a lot on this forum though I only read a few bc it was too long and boring. "

I have no connection with any companies selling anything and there has been NO advertising of any kind in this thread so where did you pull that BS from.... where the sun doesn't shine??

Are you having reading comprehension problems? I have said at least 5-6 times I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR CAR if you want to add any modification you want feel free to DO IT.

Typical another one of the "everybody does it so it must be legal response"

And why bother to respond when you haven't even bothered to read ALL the posts so you would sound a little more informed.

The chill pill saying came from eldaino all the way back in post 92 so maybe you can ask him about it.

 

I'm still waiting for the specific laws you keep referring to.

 

VERY simple since your a former inspector go to the local library and look in the general statutes under motor vehicle laws and regulations for your state because like I have said many times there are differences in local laws so if you want to know look them up.

 

holy crap this thread is gettin out of hand...I just wanted to ask a quick question...im not in this argument by the way...I kno u have cable throttle not dbw...but I heard that you had to "piggyback a K-Pro ECU onto the Fit's ECU. The K-Pro controls the engine in terms of fuel, ignition, closed loop operation and cams, while the Fit's ECU talks to the gauges, go pedal, e-throttle and the rest of the car. It requires a custom jumper harness, which the two companies are looking into selling, that lets the two computers coexist in relative harmony."

So do u know if the guys at Hondata are gonna offer this k-pro ecu kit that's piggy backed to the fit's ecu...so that our gauges work when using k-pro to get the best tuned results?

I know that if you use the reflashed fit's ecu it will still work but u lose the i-vtec, or thats at least the guys at Sports Compact car say...but im not sure exactly what happens..is it less fuel economy or performance?

on 2007 Honda Fit K20 Install - Sport Compact Car Magazine link

 

So basically you are saying that you don't know. You mentioned that there are federal laws as well, but I guess you don't know those either?

Way to back up what you've been saying... maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump on all the youngins...

 

**ATTENTION PLEASE!!**

Everyone on this thread, Please Leave Claymore alone!
We entertained his addition, YES It's FOR OFF ROAD USE ONLY, and thus illegal on the streets. But so are Many other performance parts add-ons.

He is a smart guy that has been around the block a few times. He has knowledge to offer, it's just the way that he "offers" his knowledge usually rubs people the wrong way.

I added his point to our Pros/Cons discussion, here as follows:


_______________KSwap____ VS.____ F.I.

HP:_____________ 1______________ 0

Agility:__________ 0 ______________ 1

Worth it:_________ ? _______________? (to each his own)

Crash Tested
For legal ON Road use__ 0 ______________ 0


Drop the discussion on the "off road Use" or possible On road use with good results, just leave it as it is above. BOTH NOT Approved for ON ROAD USE!
"CARB" legality is not the same as the Vehicle Traffic Safety Laws. CARB is California's stupid clean air board, for green emissions.



Even if Claymore is personally for Forced induction over and engine swaps, if it was his decision based on "the Labeled for ON ROAD USE / Crash Tested / licensed and Insured, performance modification", then he would likewise be selecting something ILLEGAL!

I don't think his comment was based on a performance thought aspect in mind, it was just something he felt he could say that is true that HE feels is important even though it does not pertain to the heading of this thread forum (Fit JDM Tuning, Engine Modifications and Swaps)! Some people hold certain things at a certain level of importance. People who enter this forum are already installing Not For OFF ROAD use parts on their cars such as Aftermarket Support Bars, Aftermarket strut tower bars, Sway bars, Intakes, Headers, exhausts, Etc. MANY of which are labeled FOR OFF ROAD USE ONLY, BUT we are all interested still, thus we are here looking in this area of FitFreak.net!! This is our Highest Level of concern / importance, what will make our Fits Perform Better!! End of Story, contribution made Thank YOU!

If Anyone wants to Continue this argument please put it in "Fit Trix General Discussions" Or "Fit Comparisons & Other Car Discussions".
START A NEW THREAD IN ONE OF THOSE GROUPS for Further Discussion!




SO, Moving on to the next Topic:

Engine Longevity!! (What do you Think? Kswap Vs. F.I.? )

I think a valid point to discuss is the Engine Longevity factor. The Kswap is a factory Honda Performance enhancement for your Fit, and it alone will give impressive gains starting at 200hp, and still have factory longevity.

A Forced Induced Fit WILL not have a long life if you constantly push the vehicle to receive the HP gains from boost, the stock internals were not meant to handle, nor designed to handle that stress. So things will wear down unless you drive it easy, but then what would be the point of putting in F.I. if you are not going to use it.

I believe in the case of engine longevity A Kswap is the way to go. (Lets Discuss THis PLease from here on...)

 

So basically I'm saying do your own work

 

PLEASE MOVE discussion to PM or another Thread. THanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by downest
So basically you are saying that you don't know. You mentioned that there are federal laws as well, but I guess you don't know those either?

Way to back up what you've been saying... maybe you shouldn't be so quick to jump on all the youngins...



PLEASE MOVE discussion to PM or another Thread. THanks.

 

SO heres the break down:


_______________KSwap____ VS.____ F.I.

HP:_____________ 1______________ 0

Agility:__________ 0 ______________ 1

Worth it:_________ ? _______________? (to each his own)

Crash Tested
For legal ON Road use__ 0 ______________ 0

Engine Longevity__. _____________ . __ (DISCUSSING.....)




Engine Longevity!! (What do you Think? Kswap Vs. F.I.? )

I think a valid point to discuss is the Engine Longevity factor. The Kswap is a factory Honda Performance enhancement for your Fit, and it alone will give impressive gains starting at 200hp, and still have factory longevity.

A Forced Induced Fit WILL not have a long life if you constantly push the vehicle to receive the HP gains from boost, the stock internals were not meant to handle, nor designed to handle that stress. So things will wear down unless you drive it easy, but then what would be the point of putting in F.I. if you are not going to use it.

I believe in the case of engine longevity A Kswap is the way to go. (Lets Discuss THis PLease from here on...)

 

seeing as to how claymore has started another one of his cute threads to live up to his tradition of long boring threads ( ), I"ll discuss this one with ya!


I guess engine longetivity is really dependent on the kit.

Compared to the 5lb jackson kit, i don't see why any honda motor would have problems pushing this, even on stock internals; thats what it was designed to do. Would it last as long as the stock the engine? no probably not. Will it last for at least a decent amount of time, at least long enough to counteract how much you'd spend on a k swap? yeah imo it would. But then again, my particular need as far as F.I goes is something that is designed to work like if the fit came stock: even the info on kraftwerks website alludes to this, that the 5lb kit is to make the car more livable, like having a bigger motor, as opposed to high rpm boost thrills.


Another factor to consider is that (and this applies to the 10lb kit as well) is that the kraftwerks charger is much different in desgin an application and is 'supposed' to be more reliable. I personally have high hopes for a torque rich reliable charger and the kraftwerks is looking to fill the bill.


Now turbo's are a different beast, and the life of the engine under the stress of say the aj or any other kit, be it low boost or not, I would assume wouldn't last as long.

One must also take into consideration that in the same way that a stock l15 isn't really meant for boosting, the general chassis of a fit wasn't meant for a k swap, at least not in its current state. True the euro type r is based on the fits chassis, but unless you are planning on fixing those parts directly on (assuming they'd fit) my statment still stands.

Something else to consider. While i know that the l15 isn't as common or well known as the b series, what is it about both the d series and b series that made them so popular? Well, the fact that because of how well honda has made its motors, both accept mods with little building neccessary and can handle up to certain power outputs easily. It makes less sense to think that our little L15 is weaker in this regard, than to assume it'll be just as good.


At any rate, i think that the cost of the k swap, at least for someone like me and given what kit I plan on using, F.I. still makes more sense.

But without a doubt, a properly installed and maintained k series SHOULD be more reliable. But again we just have to wait and see. We can only speculate for now.

 

No need for speculation FI Jazz/Fit are not only in the USA and turbo kits have been available and installed overseas for several years and the engine is the standard L-15a. There have been NO reported problems on vehicles driven for over 2 years on international sites I go to. And it's a couple of vehicles not just one and some of them have posted their cars here in good old FITFREAK.. A few have gone to forged pistons for less compression during the conversion not due to problems during use of the turbos. So far the L-15a has held up very well with daily use of a turbo.

How's that, short and succinct enough even for people with limited attention spans Can you say A.D.D.