As for "eldaino"'s comment, I agree that it is dependent on the Kit or it is dependent on the manufacturer, etc. As for what is out for the F.I. Fit soon, I would say that the Kraftwerks SC will be the most reliable as well. Turbos have boost spikes that can blow a motor, a SC at least is belt driven, worst thing that can happen is the belt falls off and you are running rich.

As for "Claymore"'s comment: Now Just saying that because people have done it, means it's reliable isn't true. If you look at the blueprints for the engine from honda and the max stress points of the materials used in the rods, bearings, coatings to protect from heat, piston ring end gap and side clearance, oil pump, gaskets, studs, etc., The L15A was NOT meant for boost of any kind.

I'm not going to disagree that d series and b series and just overall Honda motors have held up on boost. But it is about How Long they last without smoking or losing compression or just cracking due to low oil pressure or heat! There are ways of making an engine more reliable FOR boost, and I think that if companies come out with internals upgrades, the L15A will have more HP and reliability!

For now, I think we are all in agreement that a stock Honda Factory engine will give you the most longevity. SO if you are looking for a hugh power upgrade, and still drive your fit for 10+ years, 200K+ miles, a Kswap is the way to go!

 

i agree with the general consensus of the l15 being like any other honda motor and having the ability to accept modifications (at least to a certain point) with little impact to reliability.

But its no real help to us to know what has proven reliable on kits on other countries; those kits more than likely don't even fit our cars. And reliablity can vary from kit to kit, so reliablity data from those kits, again, is useless, unless they fit our cars, which they don't. Case in point: HKS. Everyone wanted it, but to my knowledge no one in the U.S. has bothered with it.

I know that JRSC and Aj racing have some test mules out there, but i would like some actual U.S. fit freak forum members to give us some data. Until then, we can only speculate. (and this is coming from someone who is very pro-JRSC.)


on a less pleasant note;...who has a.d.d? I think most of us have been pretty good about reading through your novels, but i guess insults are just in your nature. Perhaps that just comes with age?

 

If you look at the blueprints for the engine from honda and the max stress points of the materials used in the rods, bearings, coatings to protect from heat, piston ring end gap and side clearance, oil pump, gaskets, studs, etc., The L15A was NOT meant for boost of any kind.

This statement applies to ANY honda engine that isn't the k23 in the new RDX and the old honda city turbo.

I'm not going to disagree that d series and b series and just overall Honda motors have held up on boost. But it is about How Long they last without smoking or losing compression or just cracking due to low oil pressure or heat! There are ways of making an engine more reliable FOR boost, and I think that if companies come out with internals upgrades, the L15A will have more HP and reliability!

Really? thats one of the things that made them great engines to mod in general.

For now, I think we are all in agreement that a stock Honda Factory engine will give you the most longevity. SO if you are looking for a hugh power upgrade, and still drive your fit for 10+ years, 200K+ miles, a Kswap is the way to go


It does sound tempting, but a k swap for an auto tranny guy is still out of the question...especially since the only possible swap would be the base k20a3 from the Rsx. And because of its lower hp, your still looking at roughly the same WHP as from a F.I. kit, but for more money...and maybe less torque.

 

im dying for a k20 but swaping it in a FIT would totally destroy the whole purpose having the honda fit, i could of spend that money on a brand new or use civic SI or RSX Type-s, but then again everyone have different views of there cars... Good job on swap dude...

 

Wow this is unbelievable you think just because the kits are from another country you can't extrapolate ENGINE data from them. The ONLY REASON they wouldn't work on a USDM FIT is the DBW the rest of the kit would work fine. And for your further edification there have been no reported problems with the KITS either not just the engines. Some were "factory built", some were cobbled together from parts but the result is the same none or very minor problems so like I said no reason to speculate you have plenty of data to look at and the information IS NO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WOULD HAPPEN ON A USDM ONE THE ENGINES ARE THE SAME INTERNALLY.

So what are you saying that Fits/Jazz L-15a engines in other countries are DIFFERENT than the USDM ones somehow besides the DBW and intake manifolds???? And if they aren't why would it matter WHERE the kits came from BOOST IS BOOST foreign made or not and remember we are discussing ENGINE reliability NOT KIT reliability unless you want to change the subject.

And if you don't see how the engine stands up under DAILY use with one of these FOREIGN KITS or any other countries kits over the long term please let us know your method to determine reliability.

And where do you think the vast percentage of parts in ANY BRAND KIT come from the USA????

My comments are simply replies to your pathetic attempts at juvenile humor like "Long boring posts" remember that outstanding attempt. Ho Hum

 

When MEasuring reliability, besides doing teardowns after 30,000 miles on each kit, with the Same driver-type driving it. We will never know the exact wear / stress the kit has on the Stock Engine. BUT in GENREAL, the stock L15A if force induced will have a lower engine life.

I don't have the vehicles that have been driven overseas for thousands of miles, and then seen then torndown, so We can only speculate that because it is still on the road that it is still at 100%....... It's more than likely NOT. I bet they have lost some compression, probably burning some oil too.

As for the A/T question on the K swap, You can use a TSX K24A2 engine and A/T transmission! The Transmission mounting side of things will have to be slightly custom, but any good shop can figure that out! Hasport also has a "Honda FIt K24 swap kit" basically the passenger engine mount is slightly in a different spot. AND NO it's not larger in physical size by much. Just displacement! And the K24A2 is 200HP at the crank as well, but unlike the K20A2 the K24 as massive torque!!! Has the A2 style head for high performance Vtec!

Show the Fit community a K24A2'd Fit A/T that would be cool!

 

again, i don't doubt the l15's ability to support boost, but minor differences or not, its enough to where companies like HKS don't have any of there turbos installed on usdm fits to where we could gauge it appropriately.

Boost is boost, but there are safer and better ways to do it, and some kits are much more reliable than others. reliabilty of foreign fit F.I. still is not the best grounds to get a totally acurate picture of how long the fit can last in such a fashion.

It'll help you get SOME kind of idea how a PARTICULAR kit would work, but thats about it. For me? NO JRSC kits over seas, at least not the rotrex, so i'm waiting. Don't get my wrong clay, i WANT it to be reliable.


I'm sorry your comments are just 'responses' to my jokes.

But as evidenced above, your posts are still long, still boring...and so my statment is still funny.

 

oh man a k twentyfizzour!! that would be AMAZING. its a five speed auto as well? the tq on that thing is like 160lbs!

 

Besides the DBW and intake THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE in the engine so why do you think the USDM one is SOOOOO different that you can't use data from the other area ones for reliability data?? Why do you insist that it's gotta be the USDM or nothing?? Same engine same data. No speculation needed.

And I have to write long detailed missives so people like yourself will have some chance of understanding what I'm talking about.... just like your last post yea right the USDM one is somehow different than the rest of the world one right ???????????????

 

I think you guys are forgetting a few factors in your quest to see which has the better reliability.

Number one factor is DRIVER STYLE. We all know some people out there that hammer their engines unmercifully and having them as drivers of any car will result in less reliability in ANY engine/car combination.

Number two is STATE OF TUNE. If the car you are testing has been tuned by someone that doesn't know what they are doing the result will also be decreased reliability. I guess we can include AMOUNT OF BOOST in this section. Some people will be happy with 5-6 but others will want every ounce they can get and run 12-15 guess which one will last longer. Also included in this section is proper fuel selection if you get some jerk trying to still run 87 octane in his boosted car well that doesn't have to be explained. For this section the K-20 gets points because you could run it in it's original tune and have factory reliability.

Number three is MAINTENANCE. One guy religiously changes oil, filter, air filter, transmission fluid, plugs, etc every 3000 miles and uses a good quality oil. Guy number II goes to "speedy oil change" only when the light comes on and never checks the oil between changes. Definite effect on engine reliability.

So I think unless you buy one of each K-20 swap and FI other car and have them drive the same places, at the same speeds, with the same driver, and maintenance schedule you will never have reliable data to correctly interpret the results so it is virtually impossible to determine which is more reliable using differing cars and drivers.

 

because the relibablity of the HKS kit is useless since it wont fit on our cars!!!!


boy. you just don't get it do you?


I"m NOT questioning the l15's ability to handle boost or saying that the usdm version is so different.

but the reliablity of the car, aside from all the variables you mentioned, depends greatly on the particular kit that is being used.

THUS, if all the data you have is about kits that are made for JDM fits, their trackrecord is USELESS for a U.S. fit driver IF THAT KIT IS NOT MADE FOR US HERE. and even then i'm not saying that because of this, any kit made here will suck, its just silly to assume that because a great company like hks makes a really good turbo for FITS in japan, that doesn't mean that a crappy turbo from a company here in the states is going to do just as good.

is that really that difficult to understand?

To give you another example, Vw's are rated pretty well in europe as being reliable vehicles. That hasn't always been the case here in the states. Therefore, would it make sense for someone here in the U.S. to justify his/her purchase of a VW simply because IN EUROPE they do well? No it doesn't. Its the same concept...

...Though now i belive all i have accomplished is confuse you further, because it coudn't have been more clear as to what i was saying in the first place and your superior intellect STILL could NOT grasp the concept.

 

What don't you understand about THEY ARE THE SAME ENGINE, USDM is nothing special that deserves it's own category. There is no need to separate them for reliability. And a HKS kit on a rest of the world L-15a would be exactly the same as a USDM kit except for minor ECU changes to accommodate the DBW Nothing to do with reliability of the engine or KIT.

If you think the USDM engine is so different and sooo special that it needs it's own category separate from all other L-15a engines perhaps you can enlighten the rest of us on WHAT MAKES IT SO SPECIAL???? (Other than DBW and intake manifold).

 

holy crap!

are you in a home or something?


should i type it more slowly?


I"M...NOT...TALKING...ABOUT...THE...ENGINE.

i'll say it again as simply as possible.

1. most jdm tuners don't make kits for our fits. Hence, the reliablity of them is irrelevant, because we can't have those specific kits for our cars.

Tell me, can you point me to an american fit with an HKS kit? No you can't.

We will only have the JRSC and the aj racing kit to go off of.

Are any of the people on these websites running those kits so that you can vouch for their reliablity? No.

Claymore, i can't MAKE you understand something simple. In fact you have complicated it beyond belief. I guess you just don't WANT to understand.

And you have made an ass of yourself. i'll do my best to ignore your useless posts from now on.

 

meh i really think im going to do the k20/k24 swap. after watching videos of eg/ek hatches smoking cars. i wanna go n/a. financially im almost there. itll be about 6 more months till my mechanic comes back from philly. thats probably when i will start the project fit.

 

Are you just being obtuse on purpose or what. It doesn't matter where the kit comes from or who made it or whether or not it's on a USDM car or anywhere in the world Fit/Jazz it will be the SAME except for minor adjustments to the ECU controller because of the DBW. Therefore anyone with an ounce of intelligence could extrapolate the needed data about reliability of the engine and the kit FROM ANY JAZZ/FIT ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD no need to separate out the USDM one the results will be the same. The USDM is nothing special or better than the rest of them where do you think they are produced and you haven't told us yet why they need a special section just for them.

 

ok pal. it actually matters a lot. wether you want to beleive it or not, not all F.I. kits are made equal. One could be amazingly reliable, on could be subpar. Since all your reliablity information is coming from kits that no one in the U.S. will have experience with EVER, then its a moot point. We need to see data on a U.S. kit.

I'm not talking about the engine, its the kits themselves. Why is that hard to understand? Your insulting my intelligence because YOU are basing your facts of F.I. kits that you will never even be able to install? You think that just because an HKS kit is reliable that the aj racing one just HAS to be as reliable too? Thats the point claymore, and you my friend just DON"T get it.

 

You don't get it that this site ISN'T just for USDM Fits. There are plenty of international members also reading this post and the results that apply to their cars also. You are implying that we only be concerned with USDM results... that is an insult to all of our international members. Way to go insulting some of our longest term members. Remember the title of the post "K swap/ Stock FI" nothing in there about USDM ONLY and nothing about KITS only we were discussing both kits and ENGINES which is relevant to ALL MEMBERS not just USDM.

 

I kinda agree with Clay on that one.

So Stock FIt's with F.I. kits, that are mass produced by companies, can have a scale of reliability (I.E. there are no "known" reports of engine failure). Does this equal longevity? I'm not too sure though, and I don't think you are going to get a straight answer from a performance company claiming your engine to last "X" amount of miles with thier kit....

Although I am entertaining the idea od boosting the K20 one day..... hehehe

 

dude, WTF? OBVIOUSLY, this thread, this site,... is not just for guys in the U.S....but what F.I. kits have been discussed? ones here in the U.S. What reliability have you been presenting? the ones of kits that are not availble here.

as a U.S. fit owner, as much as i like to see what everyone around the world is doing with their fits, it actually doesn't concern me when it comes time to making MY purchase does it?

all the most frequent posters in this thread have been in the U.S, discussing U.S. kits to begin with. What good does it do me to discuss the matter for a non fitting kit that is available else where? well, it helps me determine that the l15 can handle boost in general, but it doesn't tell me if Aj's or JR's kit will be just as good does it?


If someone from another country wanted to chime in, they are welcome to do so, and i would enjoy their post! But does it really aid in my questions...no. Because it still wouldn't determine the u.s. specs kits reliablity.

Besides, its kinda obvious that I was discussing to kits here anyway, so ifyou live in another country, it would KINDA be helpful to disclose it wouldn't it? or is this just another lame attempt to sidetrack the discussion because you really have nothing else to counter my point on reliablity of U.S. F.I. kits?


way to start crap claymore. So now i'm insulting everyone? i have not insulted anybody! I have a right to discuss or to post what concerns me just like everyone else.

i never even ALLUDED to the concept of thinking that this was a U.S. only website!

Clay, you are just running out of things to say.

 

Claymore has not been in the US for awhile.... I believe he is in bangkok? or some desert... that was his old "location" but now it just says dust on the horizon...