My kwsc a/t kit pre-order is in the For Sale forum for a discount if anyone is interested. (update: sold)

 

IF you want your car FAST and CHEAP it WONT BE RELIABLE!!!
IF you want your car CHEAP and RELIABLE it WONT BE FAST !!!
IF you want your car FAST and RELIABLE it WONT BE CHEAP!!!!

BUILD ACCORDINGLY!!!!

 

hahaha i couldnt have said that better myself. better to spend the extra money up front because it will cost you more in the end if you dont. people are cheap-o's these days.

 

btw, it seems KW has switched up their base SC, and nobody really knows much about the improved performance yet except a couple beta testers...

 

Does not matter....turbo will always be more efficient. Turbo doesnt take power to make power.

 

-1

As discussed in this thread, efficiency is not everything (hence pros and cons), and turbo power isn't free as you suggest. Peak power monsters go for the turbo, smooth simplicity is the supercharger, and everyone else between can't figure out what they want...

 

for someone who is a 'certified tuner' you should take some time to familiarize yourself with rotrex, because you obviously have not.

 

Regardless of how good the rotrex is (don't get me wrong, the rotrex is an amazing unit - I'm sincerely impressed with the engineering invovled), the turbocharger will always be more efficient. It not only takes advantage of the velocity of the exhaust gasses, but it also takes advantage of the temperature of these gasses.

So, while a turbocharger's energy isn't "free" entirely, it comes at a much lower cost than any supercharger can provide.

That said, a supercharger will always keep the advantage of throttle response and consistency of power, which makes tuning MUCH easier (hence the supercard vs. the Emanage Ultimate).

 

Yeah I think we all agree about that, we were just saying efficiency is only one aspect of a power upgrade...

My original point that got lost was, people looked at the turbo kit and the kwsc base kit, and seems like the kwsc wasn't near the same game for "5 psi". And for the people not wanting the added complexity of the turbo kit, were kinda put off by the sc kit numbers. So for the people who are more interested in an sc kit, supposedly the kit has been bumped up a bit -- but details are still thin. That's what I was trying to convey before Mr Tuner stated that "it does not matter"...

 

efficiency can be measured different ways. you could argue that an n/a engine making as much hp as a turboed one of the same size is 'more efficient', but thats not the whole story.

turbos are great, as is the rotrex, and how they make power is not really the point i was making. its obvious that he has little experience with rotrex and probably thinks they are no different than the old jackson racing types of yore. they are just about as effiecient as turbos.

 

Yes, the Rotrex is probably just about as efficient when it comes to the compressor side itself. It's where the energy comes from that makes the difference. Increasing exhaust back pressure to spin a turbine is "cheaper" than tapping directly from the accessory belts. That said, it's also less consistent and reliable.

I've gotta hand it to Kraftwerks, I think the Rotrex will be a much more reliable and 'safe' kit than a turbo.

I'm still going with my t1r though

 

Yeah, I'm curious about the updated Rotrex kit. What I really want to know is what they did to improve power that much! Ignition control maybe?

And yes, efficiency is definitely only a small part of a performance upgrade. It's all about opinion - a turbo is an efficient turbine that needs a muzzle, and a S/C is like adding an extra hamster to your motor (in addition to the 4 stock ones )

 

nothing special about the rotrex supercharger....its a centrifugal supercharger....companies like vortech and procharger have been making them for years....ive built motors specific for the linear type boost centrigual superchargers make tuned them and raced them. Ive used procharger and vortech systems on honda s2k....and vortech superchargers on many B series honda motors. To put it bluntly the setups sucked even at high boost. Most of my customers went on to ball bearing turbo setups and were amazed at the difference and better gas mileage.

 

Rotrex please read. It may look like a cetrifugal, but it isnt

 

http://www.rotrex.com/web2005/pdfs/R...ly_version.pdf

Rotrex A/S is a technology driven company focused on providing
leading solutions within forced induction systems for the automotive
industry. The patented traction drive enables the Rotrex centrifugal
supercharger to achieve superior efficiency, reduced emissions, and
improved transient response. This allows smaller size, lower noise
and weight than that of competing products for applications within
downsized engines, hybrid powertrains, fuel cell and performance

vehicles.

key words here "Rotrex centrifugal supercharger"

it is exactly that.

 

wowzers 2 red tic tacs,
i don't know if i would go t1r or KW
probably KW though, i'm not sure
definitely high boost if anything

 

yes, it is a centrifugal supercharger. As such, the compressor side is basically the same as its turbo counterpart. I think what Chris (and others) are referring to is the drive system. From what I know, the Rotrex uses a planetary rotor set immersed in a non-newtonian fluid which provides much less friction loss when compared to the usual gear-driven compressors.

 

so....

you dont have any experience with a rotrex then.


thanks! just wanted to clear it up.

the fact that you said those setups sucked is more than proof of you lack of expertise.

better gas mileage with a turbo? sounds like its YOUR internals that need tuning.

education is key my friend.

 

lolz whatever you say bro

anyways,

couple years ago, it would have been a no brainier for me that I would never pick SC over Turbo for a 1.5 liter engine. But technology is moving fast these days, it's really hard to say which is better...

in theory for a small engine, Turbo would be more efficient then SC, but the rotrex is so efficient, runs so cool.....it's really hard to say.

I don't really think anyone else will have an answer neither, for now, I ll just wait and see what KW has coming for us. Hope it's something good.

 

mostly wondering is with the KWSC can u run it on a stock motor and nothing will go wrong and will u pass emissions.

thinking of geting the KWSC for my a/t fit