But all of that is still very important! Well except for working with points and distributors.. But I have found a fondness for incorporating crank trigger ignitions on EFI systems! Though space is not always available.

Tuning a pull through or blow through carb on forced induction is a skill I do not have nailed down. I would probably figure it out in the long run. But I have little experience with Boosted Carb applications, the couple I have gotten to play with were big block chevys with big displacement Weiand blowers and small pulleys feeding two 4 barrel units.

I always look forward to reading your posts because you have a couple decades extra experience that is still very valuable!

 

Thought I would update this with some of the things I have been working on lately..



4 Engine Builds and a JDM H22 swap for a blown (compression was showing (140-25-35-100) USDM H22 that my buddy didn't even bother to tear down he just bought a new motor.. So I will have an H-Series to ponder putting in the GD3 if I don't stick with my current plans for the L15A



We've been teasing him for not even bothering to rebuild or inspect, but if it nets me a cheap or free long block that's always a plus.. I got a fully assembled, potentially working, 6-bolt crank 4G63 for $40 from a guy at a gas station a few months ago. But it has moss on the block so we'll see how that goes

 

A few more crappy cell phone pics of the 4 other engines to go on the stand..





Yea.... the garage is in the process of being cleaned and reorganized for a new computer, stand and tool cart.

 

Also this...



All in the name of:


What's everyone else working on?

 

For people who insist fast always has to be expensive, heres a guy named Mike Rizzotti doing a 9sec quarter mile on a stock 2.0L turbo (unopened) block from the early 90's.

To give you an idea of the power that is putting out, remember this car weighed in at 3006lbs w/o driver.

I'm not saying the L15A can do 9s, but I think there is a reason these cars are used in Endurance races in Asia. The L15A and Trans seem to be pretty tough.

There is also at least one example of a built CP/K1 rotating assembly L15A but stock trans putting out 440whp @ 22psi on a medium frame turbo (big for a 1.5L). I am looking for the link..

Mike Rizz 9.98 at 140, 9's on stock block ! New England Dragway 10/24/10
http://www.youtube.com/user/scdaddy7.../0/WeWVBPShSXs

 

Giving myself a couple early Christmas and Birthday presents:

A set of winter wheels for the Fit (15x6) and a set for the Laser (15x7):

U.S. Wheel 62 Series Snow Black Wheels
U.S. Wheel 62-5642S - U.S. Wheel 62 Series Snow Black Wheels - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Still debating on whether I am going to get Nokian RSi's or Blizzaks..

But what has been decided on, and is on order:

Motegi Black Trak-Lite Wheels 15x7
Motegi Racing Performance Wheels 23885749 - Motegi Black Trak-Lite Wheels - Overview - SummitRacing.com


Wrapped in these:

BFGoodrich g-Force Sport 215/50/15
BFGoodrich Tires 39121 - BFGoodrich g-Force Sport Tires - Overview - SummitRacing.com


And finally for the Laser, a set of these:

Cragar Black V-5 Wheels 15x8
Cragar 3655812 - Cragar Black V-5 Wheels - Overview - SummitRacing.com


Sporting these for summer duty:

BFGoodradial T/A (Front: 245/60/15; Rear 225/60/15)
BFGoodrich Tires 60013 - BFGoodrich Radial T/A Tires - Overview - SummitRacing.com


Thermal Research and Development Ceramic-Coated SS 3" Exhaust system for the Laser:
Thermal Research & Development




This last one is all because the ghetto fab exhaust that came with the shell broke at the rear axle

 

What I expect to put into the Fit next spring/summer:

Crower Rods



Lower compression forged pistons. Not necessarily CP pistons, possibly Mahle.

 

on topic of the winter tires. narrower the better.
i run 185/60/15 on my fit.

also, why waste the money getting new steelies? stop at a local junkyard and pick some up for like $80/set.

 

Agreed, narrower is better for snow.. I was contemplating something in the 175/185 range for the Fit and 195/205 for the Laser.

The main reason I am buying new winter wheels is because my old sets are rusted quite badly, the set on my Laser are older than the car which is already 18 years old.

 

Well with the release of Bisimoto's CR-Z Turbo Hybrid and what little data I have been able get from the mods and figures/videos posted I am thinking about going far beyond my initial 180-200whp goals...

So in taking a break from studying this evening I was doing a little research on my plans for a turbo L15A and found some interesting stuff..

Before going further, unless you can already read or have a rough understanding of compressor maps and how different turbine wheels and housings can affect what part of these maps you will be able to use... I would read these links (in this order):

Stealth 316 - Turbocharger Compressor Flow Maps

TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo Tech101

TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo Tech102

TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo Tech103

The last one in particular is what I will be dealing with.

I have others that go more technical but that is a fantastic place to get a basic understanding of what I will be talking about..

So a Pressure Ratio of 2 on these maps is 14.7psi boost pressure. 3.0 is 29.4psi boost.




Garrett uses pounds per minute on their maps, which can be very roughly translated as 1lb/min = 8-9whp depending on BSFC, as discussed in the links above.


This first one is from a Garret Honeywell GT2554R which seems to be the turbo EVERY kit for the GDs and all of the alleged developing kits for the GEs has been using, and at only 5-10psi. Which you can see why they run out of steam so soon, especially when some GT25s leave even the 60% efficiency islands at 10psi at ~20lbs/min.

Bear in mind the turbine side is also affecting the compressor map, though it is rare you will actually see a turbine flow map I have some for you, which will also put in perspective the size of the 59mm Compressor Inducer (Borg Warner S259ETT, similar to the S258ETT) turbo I have on my Laser, which is between a GT3782R and a GT4088R when you compare both the Turbine and Compressor sides.

When people talk about 50-Trims.. that should tip you off that they have no clue what they are talking about. Because unless we know which Compressor or Turbine wheel and which housing he is using that information is useless Fast'N'Furious ricer non-sense.


I am of the opinion there are better options. Some of which are cheaper. Lets look at a few of the common street turbo options anyone with a GT25/28 could bolt in..


The HKS/T1R turbo that comes in your kits:

GT2554R :
Compressor Wheel Inducer 42mm/Exducer 54.3mm

Turbine Wheel Exducer 53.0mm




GT2560R:

Compressor Wheel Inducer 46.5mm/Exducer 60mm

Turbine Wheel Exducer 53.0mm



GT2854R
Compressor Wheel Inducer 42.0mm/Exducer 54.3mm



Turbine Wheel Exducer 53.8mm



Now note the difference in airflow and efficiency created by the 5mm larger inducer on the GT2860 compressor


GT2860RS
Compressor Wheel Inducer 47.2mm/Exducer Wheel 60mm

Turbine Wheel Exducer 53.8mm

This last turbine map illustrates the effect on flow through the engine between different size turbine housings, the red line being a .86A/R vs a 0.64 A/R on the same 53.8mm Turbine Wheel Exducer.

All this was to illustrate the effects of:

1.) Different turbine wheels in the same size turbine housing attached to the same size compressor wheel. Example: GT2554R v GT2854R

They both flow the roughly same amount of air at the same boost and efficiency. This is because the only difference being a slight increase of the turbine wheel (0.8mm) creates only marginal gains, if everything else remains the same.

2.) Different compressor wheels attached to the same turbine wheel in the same turbine housing. Example: GT2554R v GT2560

Using the same exact 53.0mm turbine in the same exact housing the GT2554R's 42.0mm Inducer/54.3mm compressor Inducer can flow about 28lbs/minute max efficiently. Versus the GT2560R's 46.5mm/60.0mm Compressor flowing about ~34lbs/min max.

The only changes being to the compressor wheel and a bigger air inlet (46.5mm inducer vs. 42.0mm)

3.) Different turbine housings attached to the same turbine wheel and the same compressor wheel. Example GT2860RS 0.64 A/R vs. 0.86 A/R Turbine housing.

The compressor maps only tell us part of the story. While the compressor may show it can push 37lbs/min, but because of the turbine combination it may only flow 31lbs/min in the 0.64 A/R Turbine housing using a 53.8mm turbine wheel and remain efficient.

But in a larger 0.86 A/R Turbine housing on the same 53.8mm turbine wheel it can flow the full 37lbs/min. So a 6lb/min gain changing only the housing that bolts the turbo to the engine.

In this example just by swapping to a larger, slightly laggier, turbine housing you can pick up ~40whp at the same boost.

Think of it like blowing through a coffee stirrer vs a garden house less pressure required but more airflow overall.


So now a real quick way to know what you are looking at when comparing maps now that you have the concepts discussed in the links I posted above:

Find say 5psi, 10 psi or 15psi (2.0 Pressure ratio) on these maps, draw a horizontal line and then draw a vertical line where on that farthest right outside island how. That is how much airflow that turbo will flow "efficiently" on that much boost.

You can see a whole bunch more Compressor maps from several companies like Garrett or MHI on that Stealth316.com link which should help you choose a good match for your project and goals!

Hopefully other DIY guys can find this useful and if anyone has any questions just ask, or PM me.

If anyone is curious, I would personally use a GT2860RS in at least 0.86A/R Turbine housing as the very smallest I would bother putting on an L15A for the money involved.

This is why I am using a 34lb/min Mitsu 14B turbo to start. because it has a large enough turbine side to flow all 34lbs/min while still spooling very quickly for it's size.

Remember, the 533whp L15A in Bisimoto's CR-Z turbo is using a Slightly larger turbo than the one I have on my 2.0L.

So if they can spool a freaking 64mm Inducer in a GT4088R on a tiny little L15A, You will have no problems daily driving a GT28xxR or larger. Here's how they do it:


GT4088R
Compressor Wheel Inducer 63.5mm/Exducer 88.0mm

Turbine Wheel Exducer 77.0mm

7.0mm


But look at the difference in flow the 4 different A/R turbine housings make on the same turbine wheel. With the fastest spooling .85A/R being the most restrictive and least efficient, and the laggy 1.19A/R allowing the most flow for top end power.

My whole point in all of this is, do some research if you are going to go turbo, and match things properly to your goals/driving style.

Do not waste your money getting anything in the GT25R family or smaller if you are gonna DIY! (in terms of airflow)

GT28Rs and larger will still provide plenty of torque, same power at less boost which makes it more efficient on pump gas, which is good for longevity, fuel economy and performance on a high compression pump gas engine.

A Mitsubishi "small" 16G would probably be about the perfect street/strip turbo for our 1.5L's.

I am not saying everyone should go out and start buying GT35Rs for their fits, but there are alternatives!

 

 

DSM, you are being very successful in making me aware of how lacking I am in my ability to make sense of mathematics.... I am glad there are people like you that can work this stuff out.... I'm glad that Oscar Jackson was able to put together a kit that was simple enough that I could install it myself without needing to figure out stuff like you are posting or I would have had to forget about boost for my car.

 

Well I certainly appreciate the vote of confidence!

I just want to make this thread useful for others who might be contemplating a DIY turbo or supercharger setup.

So in that last post I provided some very basic tools to determine how much airflow you need to meet your horsepower goals, and then a elementary lesson in interpreting compressor/turbine maps and specifications.

I also wanted to demonstrate that turbo kits using the GT2554R while not a complete waste of time, but it is definitely not the route I would go.

Because for the time, money and effort I don't think a 26-27lb/min compressor (~250whp) attached to a turbine that might only be able to push 18-19lbs/min (~165whp) efficiently @ 10psi is worth forking over >$3500.

If you are going to spend more than ~$2000, you can have a serious setup fully tunable via laptop and easily upgradeable.

 

Here's how (post taken from another thread):

 

A work of art from a group called Tirado Custom Coatings:


And another:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Is it cold in here?





Cryo-Treating!

Don't let this:


Happen to you!

 

DSM, Does it thaw in room temp? I heard about this but I though they use heat too. Can you explain?

 

You're on the right track there, they heat treat or temper the item in question and then as part of the quenching stage they will bring it down to about -190F or more. Some companies or procedures only go to -110F, this is called shallow cryotreating.

Basically most of the benefits from tempering come during the cool down or quenching stage. Where the metal actually gets denser, the original stress risers are changed, subdued or removed entirely and the entire component becomes more uniformly durable and quantifiably harder on the Rockwell scale.

So instead of using just a quenching oil, the process carries on for hours and hours removing any last heat.

You will have to think of heat in the sense a physicist does. When it gets "cold" there is only a lack of heat or energy. The process brings all the molecules into a more stable, sometimes more compact state.

The company that did the above for Richard Cayetano, a fellow DSM'er, is Rocky Mountain Cryogenics.

Go herE for a real life example on some baer brake discs stressed to failure. Cryo treated vs non Cry treated:
Cryo Treatment

 

New solutions for performance turbo systems in cramped areas.

At SEMA, BorgWarner announced the release of these new units and the stats are so far looking pretty impressive.

I also know of one of their turbos that has already been dyno'd on a Honda B18. It was a 67.7mm Inducer Compressor capable of more than 100lbs/min, or only 4mm larger than the turbo inlet on the Bisimoto CR-Z turbo (64mm, 70lbs/min)

My 59mm will only pump out ~66lbs/min for reference.. That is alot of air passing through a relatively small inlet, probably through the use of a very large turbine side, because at 38psi boost, they were reporting 1:1 backpressure.

Here are the exact logs from the dyno run, provided by a member on one of the private tuning forums I am on:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Yes that is 1000whp from a Honda B18 @ 38psi boost that you are looking at... here is the logged boost curve to prove it.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

There is a whole series of remarkable innovations involved throughout the new design:

EFR Features & Benefits:

Low Inertia Turbine Wheel
Gamma-Ti Turbine wheel cuts turbine inertia by roughly 50%, dramatically improving turbo response. Turbine sizes range from 55mm to 80mm in Outside Diameter.

Heat Resistant Turbine Housings
Investment cast stainless steel turbine housings improve durability and offer an extremely smooth internal flow channel. Turbine housings have thin walls to reduce weight and thermal inertia.

High Turbine Efficiency
Superback and Fullback back-disk shapes offer very high efficiencies. The Superback shape adds a curved profile to the back-disk and has the effect of lowering centrifugal stress and permitting higher rotational speeds.

Enhanced Turbo Response
EFR Turbochargers use a dual-row ball bearing cartridge with ceramic balls and metal cage. This bearing system provides substantial friction reduction at low turbo speeds and in the process helps improve turbo response. Metal cage improves the durability of the ball bearing assembly.

Flexible Compressor Cover
The EFR turbo "large" cover has a dual-machined outlet, both for a hose connection and a v-band connection.

Simplified Installation
Integrated compressor recirculation valve (CRV) to help avoid compressor surge and backflow during a throttle lift event. This feature helps to simplify the installation task and lowers overall system install cost.

Forged Milled Compressor Wheels (FMW)
EFR turbos contain wheels that are fully milled from forged aluminum, commonly known as "billet". Cut from custom forgings, their strength exceeds that which is available from typical bar-stock and also exceeds the material properties of an aluminum casting.

Sensor mounting convenience
Speed sensor mounting provisions are also supplied on every compressor cover. Speed sensors are sold separately.

Boost Control Solenoid Valve (BCSV)
A boost control solenoid valve (BCSV) is included with every EFR turbo.

High Flow Wastegates
Purpose designed large wastegate ports give the wastegated EFR turbos the capability of handling the flow requirements of high performance applications.

Ease of Orientation
Turbo orientation flexibility is facilitated by the wastegate bracket to bearing housing mounting arrangement.

Adjustable Wastegate
The fabrication and installation task is simplified with wastegated EFR models that feature adjustable wastegates available in three different canister sizes.

http://www.borgwarnerdealer.com/

 

are those OEM coated pistons?

Nicely done on the cryo treated crank, what did that set you back? PM me if you prefer.

P.S Really liking all the tech info you've posted

 

The last time I remember being exposed to so much interesting technology was in a motorcycle mechanics course at a community college in the mid 80s when I was hanging out with the instructor....