is this going to fit the Auto???

 

No problem. That's what using abbriviations gets me. You're absolutely right and yet they did say:
-Cruise speed travel and light boost driving...Higher MPG.
So it is possible to get higher MPG at light boost. Thought I remebered hearing that years ago and that's why I asked. Light boost reaches a point of higher fuel efficeincy.

Just trying to get it all straight in my mind that's why I keep asking questions. That's what he said but what you or I consider cruise speed may be different than what he considers cruise speed.

I consider 70mph cruise speed on State hwys. and 75 cruise speed on Interstates. Perhaps the question should be asked in a different way since a flat road could have a incline or downgrade which would make a difference. As long as the question envolves someones point of view it leaves it open to interpretation so I'll change the question.

I'm a far cry from a know it all on s/c's so let's try it this way.

The s/c has to be activated by something right? As you just stated it could be activated by MAP Manifold Air Pressure. Other possibilities would include: TPS Throttle Position Sensor and LOD Engine Load. All of these can be motitored with the ScanGuageII.

How is it activated ?
MAP Manifold Air Pressure
TPS Throttle Position Sensor
LOD Engine Load
or other.

After knowing the answer to the first question.
At what point is it activated?
When MAP drops below what?
When TPS reaches what? an example could be 22
When LOD reaches what? an example could be 53
or other?

Just looking for some way using the ScanGuageII that I would be able to see when it would be starting to boost and maintaining that light boost while making my daily commute. While I wait for it to be released.

I'm already sold, I'll be getting the 5lb kit at least. I'm just curious at this point as to how it would impact my MPG and wether or not my 40 miles a day of relativly flat roads would acheive the goal of:
-Cruise speed travel and light boost driving...Higher MPG.

The idea is that if it can get higher MPG on the flat stretches it would help offset the lower MPG climbing the hills and accelerating. Resulting in an overall lower loss of MPG from what I'm getting now.

Never know until you ask.

 

Yes. They said there will be one for the Automatic Transmission.

 

You sure about that? So if I'm putting 12-15 lbs through a centrifugal at hi rpm and suddenly release the gas pedal, hit the brakes, what happens?

 

If you look on the JR website at the computer rendering of the piping there is a location on the tubing for a blow off valve. Granted, at these low boost applications you probably can get away with not needing one.

 

Claymore, have you read the material? I am aware of the site...I posted the link. It appears that Rotrex themselves recommends a 'recirculation valve' for installations where the unit is positioned ahead of the throttle body for the exact reasons I mention. Have you ever installed or run a supercharger? I have not...just wondering.

A somewhat simpler approach (recommended for most aftermarket applications) is to leave the throttle body at the original position. If you choose to position the throttle body downstream, a re-circulation valve is recommended. If the valve is omitted the supercharger will create noise under deceleration caused by surge. Surge occurs when the supercharger keeps making pressure at low airflow forcing the compressor to work outside the intended operation area. This will be most noticeable on high boost applications under high engine rpm with the throttle closed (deceleration). The re-circulation valve will prevent surge by allowing air to circulate from the pressure side of the supercharger to the inlet side of the supercharger under manifold vacuum conditions.

 

I think the key point is that low boost apps don't necessarily need one but could be made more efficient with one...higher boost applications require a bypass valve. Look at any of the Vortech install manuals and you'll see one. The issue is compressor surge, and heat managment.

But the 5lb kit for the Fit probably doesn't 'need' one, but I would put one on anyway.

 

I would think that a blow off valve or bypass valve would be nice on the 10lb kit. Compressor surge can effect the performance of the turbo and damage the blades over time.

Centrifugal Superchargers DO have non-linear boost as well as turbos, creating unwanted pressure bouncing around inside the piping. But again with such a low amount of boost, I would think it probably isn't necessary. Its all about if u want the sound.PPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTt

 

If that were true then once you start the engine you would be getting boost ALL the time. As long as the engine is spinning the s/c you're getting boost. Even decelerating. Still boosting.

If not, then there must be a point that it begins making boost and a point where it stops making boost. Usable boost that is.

Yes the s/c is making it by spinnning but is it being used ALL the time or is there a activation and deactivation point? A turbo may be spinning all the time but until it kicks in it's not boosting.

I don't know so educate me. I'll try to do some research on it later after I get thru all my email.

 

hi claymore,
just wondering,ur were talkin about changing the pulley for more boost... i wanna get the Jackson Racing S/C, do u think it would be a good idea to have a light weight pulley for more boost just as u mentioned.

 

Ok Ok Ok... Let me clear some things up...

Supercharger compared to Engine Speed...
The supercharger has a constant connection with the engine (via belt) and spins with engine speed. The ratio the compressor wheel spins at depends on the ratio from belt to compressor wheel. The internal drive itself has a 13:1 ratio from compressor wheel to drum.


The Bypass...
All kits have a bypass valve. The rendering is a poor example, because it is cleaned up to make the picture aesthetically pleasing. The small pipe that protrudes out and down from the top pipe is where the hose to the bypass connects. It connects to a bottom tube, not shown correctly in the rendering. The fitting on the top pipe is for the Intake Air Temperature Sensor, not a Blow Off valve.


Fuel Mileage....
If I didn't make this clear enough, I'm sorry. Let me explain the statement "Cruise Speed Travel and light boost driving...Higher MPG"

The statement means that you will receive Higher MPG compared to "Drop Clutch Starts and 110+ MPH" driving. Boost at cruise speed is not cruise speed. When I said cruise, this means 70 MPH, flat ground. Like I said in the previous post, we are adding fuel in boost beyond what a Naturally Aspirated motor adds. Regardless if its 5lbs or 10lbs, being in boost will reduce your fuel mileage.


Let me explain how the system works:

The supercharger is constantly connected to the engine. There is no "activation" of the supercharger.

The bypass valve is correlated with load.
In layman's terms:
Light load = Bypass on (air passing through bypass valve, Bypassing the supercharger)
Heavy Load = Bypass Off (valve shuts and does not allow air to bypass the supercharger)

If I need to explain further please notify me.

The Rotrex Supercharger:
The Rotrex is not your typical centrifugal supercharger. The boost map on the Rotrex is linear, so comparing it to a non-linear competitor is unfair. Remember, this supercharger is capable of 200,000 RPM, with turbo compressor efficiency. No Lag like a turbo or traditional centrifugal.

I might need to elaborate some more, but meetings await me.

Hope this helps!

-Oscar Jackson Jr.

 

I've been waiting to hear from the man himself..! Sometimes it isn't worth arguing about, and letting the 'expert' talk.

Regarding compressor speed...the only time the pulley & engine are not spinning at the same rate is when your belt is slipping!

Which reminds me...I noticed the 10 lb kit will have a different belt. I assume this is only due to the different size pulley, and not a change from 6-rib to 8-rib?

 

i am intrested in ordering one do we need to wait or is thier a pre-order? maybe a link or email ? thnx

 

The belt change is strictly because the change in pulley size.

www.jacksonracing.com

-Oscar Jackson Jr.

 

if you don't mind could you please elaborate on the following:

Which pulley is being replaced? Or do all of the original pulleys on the engine remain in tact and the reason for the longer belt is to accomodate the SC pulley in the mix. My reason being is i just installed a lightweight crank pulley and want to know if it will be scrapped if i decide to get the kit.

Also are you aware if anyone is planning on coming out with an A/T tranny rebuid kit.

Thanks.

 

With regard to the belt question, the 10lbs. kit will get a different belt due to the difference in length alone. We are not changing the width of the belt for these applications.

-With the crank pulley change, unless that kit utilized a belt other than stock length, you will have to find a belt other than the one we would supply. We are producing these kits with stock cars in mind.(no engine mods)

I hope that answered a couple questions.
Thanks
-Sean

 

That helps clairify things pretty well. I misunderstood you the first time about the cruise and light boost. Now I see what you meant.

I appreciate you taking the time to explain things for myself and others that are unfamiliar with the workings of a s/c system.

So the bypass valve determines whether or not there will be boost based on the engines load at any given point in time. I'm catching on now.

One last question. Since the bypass valve is controlled by engine load and the ScanGuageII can show engine load by % of maximum load. At roughly what % would the bypass valve close (Heavy Load = Bypass Off (valve shuts and does not allow air to bypass the supercharger)? If you know that is.

Again, thanks for explaining things, have a great day.

 

wow lots of info since i last checked. btw, i noticed the kit doesnt have an intercooler. would it benefit if there was one for the 5 psi application? coz if when i buy the kit i plan to put just a tiny air-to-air one or will i suffer from massive lag?

Im from the Philippines btw, so im also doing this coz the weather here is hotter than las vegas is the summer hahaha!

 

I'm definitely interested in the 5 lb. kit, but I'm not exactly planning which exhaust system to buy until I see more info on the kit from Jackson Racing.

We've seen dyno sheets for an NA intake and header setup and for the 10 lb. kit, but we haven't seen anything like this for the 5 lb. kit. I wouldn't plan to spend $3500 or more without more information on performance.

Here's another party-pooper thought... on a relatively new (2007!) car like the Fit, the warranty is part of the car's value. A supercharger kit would definitely be fun, but you're basically spending somewhere between $3500 and $5000 to throw away the powertrain warranty. Just something to think about...

 

Let see. By the end of this month it will hit 10,000 miles. I picked it up the last day of May so I will have had it 6 full months.

10,000 divided by 6 = 1,666.7 miles per month.
36,000 mile warranty divided by 1666.7 = 21.6 months of warranty.
That would make my warranty to expire in March 2008.
As long as that useage remains constant.

Don't know if I can wait that long. Perhaps over the Holidays it may see a few more miles. Could make a couple trips across the Country to run out the warranty. Now wouldn't that be more fun with a s/c on it?

Tough choice but if figure if I don't kill something in the first half of its warranty then it's going to live. So far it shows no signs of having any drive train problems. That would make it April 2007. Sounds a lot better to me.

If any problems come up, just have to deal with them as needed.