KRAFTWERKS SUPERCHARGER aka (Jackson Racing)
How come the MT has more of a HP increase then the AT?
I dont understand that. I know that the official numbers for HP are not out yet but people have guessed that the AT version will have less.
Tyler
I dont understand that. I know that the official numbers for HP are not out yet but people have guessed that the AT version will have less.
Tyler
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 115
From: Miramar, FL
they both have the same increase in the power from the crankshaft. the at has more drivetrain loss, because its an automatic. so ya, you will have less power at the wheels in an atomatic, because it's an automatic.
Last edited by Lyshk0; Jan 21, 2008 at 12:49 AM.
i got ya, i'm simply saying that if you're interested in data that could speak toward reliability and durability, the AJR guys have A LOT to say. they also have a lot of miles logged on their car and, this is just my opinion, can talk intelligently about road racing. and road racing is so much more stressful than just tooling around at cruise, on an autox, or drag racing (when it comes to daily driving) that i think they can say something meaningful about the long term durability of the L15 when in a boost application.
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 115
From: Miramar, FL
no, its not available yet. jackson will let us know when it is, and will have a promotional discount (no price yet) upon initial release. the regular price is listed on the site right now.
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 278
From: Wichita, KS, US
Wow all that and not one ounce of data to back it up. But since you have gone to all the trouble of posting it 
....... if you GO BACK AND ACTUALLY READ MY POST before commenting you will see that I AGREE WITH YOUR UNSUBSTANTIATED BLURB (read the part with the big word surmise) (but NOT the load part) but I don't just come out and pronounce it as fact with no supporting data. 
All your doing while being verbose is presenting a theory with no data to back it up EVEN IF I AGREE WITH IT you still can't just yell it out into the web without SOME KIND of supporting data not just unsupported theory.
....... if you GO BACK AND ACTUALLY READ MY POST before commenting you will see that I AGREE WITH YOUR UNSUBSTANTIATED BLURB (read the part with the big word surmise) (but NOT the load part) but I don't just come out and pronounce it as fact with no supporting data. All your doing while being verbose is presenting a theory with no data to back it up EVEN IF I AGREE WITH IT you still can't just yell it out into the web without SOME KIND of supporting data not just unsupported theory.
Geee, why don't you just stfu, and chill? no one here is really getting payed for help you out, so all they can do is use the best of their knowledge to help with whatever they can. If you don't know anything, while acting like a big fat @$$, why don't you go do something productive? such as...ummm...like go get some of the data that you think is so important, and share it with everyone here? You know, actually GIVE for once? perhaps?
sorry for off topic, but I just can't stand people like that.
anyways, back to topic, I have owned 2 cars both with SCs, one with factory SC, one with aftermarket, and its very rare to have boost at all when just cruising, I have boost gauge on both cars. as a matter of act, I have actually never seen any boost at all while cruising.
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 115
From: Miramar, FL
Just so everybody can read exactly what I said WHEN I AGREED WITH YOU read the whole quote 
"So the correct answer to your question is YES it will be in boost condition at a cruise speed of 5000 RPM. Whether or not that will result in excess wear on the stock internal components of a L-15a Fit engine has yet to be determined because there is only one running example out there (Chris's car)
But I surmise that it will NOT because the engine will utilize the additional torque provided by the supercharger and move the vehicle body over the road more efficiently than the lesser torque provided by a n/a engine only."
Like I have said I AGREE there SHOULD BE no excess wear but at this point there is no way of PROVING IT despite all your theorizing at this time it is just a theory. And I never said one word bad about this supercharger NOT ONE word about causing problems so don't try and put words in my post because I NEVER SAID ONE BAD THING EVER.
Typical internet kid response to somebody AGREEING WITH YOU....
"btw, i can yell whatever i want into the web. the sky is green, clouds are purple, waters not wet, and cats go woof!"
But just like your other theory you can't prove one word of it.
"So the correct answer to your question is YES it will be in boost condition at a cruise speed of 5000 RPM. Whether or not that will result in excess wear on the stock internal components of a L-15a Fit engine has yet to be determined because there is only one running example out there (Chris's car)
But I surmise that it will NOT because the engine will utilize the additional torque provided by the supercharger and move the vehicle body over the road more efficiently than the lesser torque provided by a n/a engine only."
Like I have said I AGREE there SHOULD BE no excess wear but at this point there is no way of PROVING IT despite all your theorizing at this time it is just a theory. And I never said one word bad about this supercharger NOT ONE word about causing problems so don't try and put words in my post because I NEVER SAID ONE BAD THING EVER.
Typical internet kid response to somebody AGREEING WITH YOU....
"btw, i can yell whatever i want into the web. the sky is green, clouds are purple, waters not wet, and cats go woof!"
But just like your other theory you can't prove one word of it.
then you are gonna come back and call me an "internet kid" for making a (lame) joke
? you are harping on a point that im saying is irrelevant. i am also agreeing with you that the rotrex will cause additional wear
. the additional wear will also be insignificant. you are just arguing for the sake of arguing now.
to sum it all up.
yes, there will be probably be a slight (read:INSIGNIFICANT) increase in wear on internals while cruising down the highway. can't say with 100% accuracy though.
no, there is no way to prove or disprove that to claymore's satisfaction.
btw, i think a couple thousand na miata drivers with less efficient jackson chargers would prolly agree with me anyways, but w/e. i'm done.
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 115
From: Miramar, FL
Geee, why don't you just stfu, and chill? no one here is really getting payed for help you out, so all they can do is use the best of their knowledge to help with whatever they can. If you don't know anything, while acting like a big fat @$$, why don't you go do something productive? such as...ummm...like go get some of the data that you think is so important, and share it with everyone here? You know, actually GIVE for once? perhaps?
sorry for off topic, but I just can't stand people like that.
anyways, back to topic, I have owned 2 cars both with SCs, one with factory SC, one with aftermarket, and its very rare to have boost at all when just cruising, I have boost gauge on both cars. as a matter of act, I have actually never seen any boost at all while cruising.
sorry for off topic, but I just can't stand people like that.
anyways, back to topic, I have owned 2 cars both with SCs, one with factory SC, one with aftermarket, and its very rare to have boost at all when just cruising, I have boost gauge on both cars. as a matter of act, I have actually never seen any boost at all while cruising.
Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 599
From: Puerto Rico
PLEASE!!!! 
Moderators and general posters (freakers)...... .....
The only measured (and proved by myself) problem with this S/C kit is THAT i JUST CAN'T AFFORD IT.
mY fIT HAS 46k MILES. Do you really think that I care If this will wear the engine faster?????? When I finish paying the car, it will have like 200k miles...... I rather have them with a FAST Fit and when the time comes, buy either a new engine, or a new car to start all over the cycle again.
Dont be wimps........ beat the hell out of the FIT damm it!! 
P/d: I am sorry if hurt any feelings
Moderators and general posters (freakers)......
.....The only measured (and proved by myself) problem with this S/C kit is THAT i JUST CAN'T AFFORD IT.
mY fIT HAS 46k MILES. Do you really think that I care If this will wear the engine faster?????? When I finish paying the car, it will have like 200k miles...... I rather have them with a FAST Fit and when the time comes, buy either a new engine, or a new car to start all over the cycle again.
Dont be wimps........ beat the hell out of the FIT damm it!!
P/d: I am sorry if hurt any feelings
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 559
From: Norco, CA
i got ya, i'm simply saying that if you're interested in data that could speak toward reliability and durability, the AJR guys have A LOT to say. they also have a lot of miles logged on their car and, this is just my opinion, can talk intelligently about road racing. and road racing is so much more stressful than just tooling around at cruise, on an autox, or drag racing (when it comes to daily driving) that i think they can say something meaningful about the long term durability of the L15 when in a boost application.
We have done A LOT of road race testing. The Fit kit has actually been improved from its original state BECAUSE of our long term track testing. We are very abusive in our testing. We bounce them off the rev limiter, heat soak engines; we attempt to make them detonate!
If you didn't know Jackson Racing have won 44 SCCA National Championships, including back to back SCCA Escort Endurance Championships. When you walk into Honda dealers and they have the "Double Take" CRX poster on the wall... the yellow car is a Jackson Racing CRX.
Oscar Jackson and Jackson Racing have been one of the most successful Honda road racing organizations. We have won in all conditions, no matter if it's on:
Ice- Our unlimited Turbo/Nitrous Civics won multiple Ice Racing championships.
Gravel- We built the ONLY Honda to ever win a round of the World Rally Championship.
Tarmac- I guess that's stated above.
So to say that we can't talk intelligently about racing or the race track
... that is simply and absolutely inaccurate.-Oscar Jackson Jr.
Last edited by OJRKraftWerks; Jan 21, 2008 at 02:12 PM.
Frequent FitFreak Poster
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 489
From: T-town
r u serious? well how much longer im ready and this is dragging out WAY to long, i dont mean to be an ass but this thread alone is half a year old
Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,149
From: Quebec City, Qc
Guys can we calm down about all this before this great thread gets locked?
The kit is taking longer than expected to produce. I would rather wait and have something reliable and complete that is well planned, thought out and executed.
I am sure everyone here wants to install this product and not have to go hunt for other missing pieces, extra tuning or modifications due to poor fitment. I am also sure everyone here would like a kit that is plug and play and that will not make their engine go boom.
We should also put the stress under highway cruising at rest as this does not feel like it will get resolved. If you want to talk about that, start a new thread but don't polute this one.
My reply is not meant to ruffle any feathers but I think we are forgetting why this thread is here.
The kit is taking longer than expected to produce. I would rather wait and have something reliable and complete that is well planned, thought out and executed.
I am sure everyone here wants to install this product and not have to go hunt for other missing pieces, extra tuning or modifications due to poor fitment. I am also sure everyone here would like a kit that is plug and play and that will not make their engine go boom.
We should also put the stress under highway cruising at rest as this does not feel like it will get resolved. If you want to talk about that, start a new thread but don't polute this one.
My reply is not meant to ruffle any feathers but I think we are forgetting why this thread is here.
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 559
From: Norco, CA
hey guys...
ive been stalking this thread and have occasionally asked stupid questions. so here goes another...
Pretty much everyone ive talked to and the answers gotten; have pointed me in the direction of this mod being generally safe because the boost isnt much, jacksons are reliable tuners, etc. Dont boost all the time and you'll be happy.
BUT here is my but...
If im driving on a roadtrip ex. las vegas and im traveling 80-90mph (consistently) my car will be pretty high in the RPM range probably 4-5k maybe higher. so will my car be boosting that entire time or not. Cause the impression im getting is that boosting for a while (like a 5hour roadtrip) probably wont be good. what do you guys think?
ive been stalking this thread and have occasionally asked stupid questions. so here goes another...
Pretty much everyone ive talked to and the answers gotten; have pointed me in the direction of this mod being generally safe because the boost isnt much, jacksons are reliable tuners, etc. Dont boost all the time and you'll be happy.
BUT here is my but...
If im driving on a roadtrip ex. las vegas and im traveling 80-90mph (consistently) my car will be pretty high in the RPM range probably 4-5k maybe higher. so will my car be boosting that entire time or not. Cause the impression im getting is that boosting for a while (like a 5hour roadtrip) probably wont be good. what do you guys think?
I apologize for the delay gloryhound!
You will not be in boost at steady-state, cruise throttle. Your engine would be seeing a common vacuum situation, and adjust as it did before the supercharger.
When you go to climb the Baker Grade, you will not have to down-shift twice, try to catch a draft off a SUV
, and spin the engine at high RPMs. You will be able to roll into the throttle, and climb the hill faster, with the help of boost. You will spend less time on the hill revving the engine, with the help of a little boost.Your engine will not see boost for the duration of the trip. Unless you were at full throttle the whole time and never lifted.
So... At highway cruise speeds- You will NOT be in boost. This goes for both superchargers and turbochargers. But when you hit the throttle to pass someone on a supercharged engine, you will see boost immediately, and be able to accelerate. There is no lag between your foot and boosted acceleration.
We have Mazda Miata supercharger kits with over 17 years of abuse and hundreds of thousands of miles. The only maintenance by our customers is changing their engine oil.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
Last edited by OJRKraftWerks; Jan 21, 2008 at 02:08 PM.
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 128
From: Colorado
Oscar:
Question from those of us at altitude (I know you did high altitude testing).
When does the Rotrex make its peak boost of 5 psi in the RPM band at both sea level and at 5000+ ft? I know I will have to rev it a bit more to see the true 5 psi here in Denver, thats why I am asking. I understand FI very well, and I am sure you have engineered the bypass valve very well, and I just want to understand where in the RPM band the Rotrex is hitting that peak at both sea level and high altitude (assume a full throttle run).
Thanks, looking forward to hearing a response, and maybe next time you are in Colorado we can meet up
-Eric
Question from those of us at altitude (I know you did high altitude testing).
When does the Rotrex make its peak boost of 5 psi in the RPM band at both sea level and at 5000+ ft? I know I will have to rev it a bit more to see the true 5 psi here in Denver, thats why I am asking. I understand FI very well, and I am sure you have engineered the bypass valve very well, and I just want to understand where in the RPM band the Rotrex is hitting that peak at both sea level and high altitude (assume a full throttle run).
Thanks, looking forward to hearing a response, and maybe next time you are in Colorado we can meet up
-Eric
Thanks Oscar-
You confirmed my own guess. I have not owned any vehicle with forced induction, but used a friend's Ford Lightning pickup for a while, and that is the performance that I observed with the big V-8. No boost while cruising, but as inclines increased the load, boost came on and the load decreased, preventing the AT from having to downshift to maintain engine rpm going uphill.
You confirmed my own guess. I have not owned any vehicle with forced induction, but used a friend's Ford Lightning pickup for a while, and that is the performance that I observed with the big V-8. No boost while cruising, but as inclines increased the load, boost came on and the load decreased, preventing the AT from having to downshift to maintain engine rpm going uphill.
I finally found the trigger to the Load debate!
I apologize for the delay gloryhound!
You will not be in boost at steady-state, cruise throttle. Your engine would be seeing a common vacuum situation, and adjust as it did before the supercharger.
When you go to climb the Baker Grade, you will not have to down-shift twice, try to catch a draft off a SUV, and spin the engine at high RPMs. You will be able to roll into the throttle, and climb the hill faster, with the help of boost. You will spend less time on the hill revving the engine, with the help of a little boost.
Your engine will not see boost for the duration of the trip. Unless you were at full throttle the whole time and never lifted.
So... At highway cruise speeds- You will NOT be in boost. This goes for both superchargers and turbochargers. But when you hit the throttle to pass someone on a supercharged engine, you will see boost immediately, and be able to accelerate. There is no lag between your foot and boosted acceleration.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
I apologize for the delay gloryhound!
You will not be in boost at steady-state, cruise throttle. Your engine would be seeing a common vacuum situation, and adjust as it did before the supercharger.
When you go to climb the Baker Grade, you will not have to down-shift twice, try to catch a draft off a SUV
, and spin the engine at high RPMs. You will be able to roll into the throttle, and climb the hill faster, with the help of boost. You will spend less time on the hill revving the engine, with the help of a little boost.Your engine will not see boost for the duration of the trip. Unless you were at full throttle the whole time and never lifted.
So... At highway cruise speeds- You will NOT be in boost. This goes for both superchargers and turbochargers. But when you hit the throttle to pass someone on a supercharged engine, you will see boost immediately, and be able to accelerate. There is no lag between your foot and boosted acceleration.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
Just what the Fit needs. Im sold! Time to start saving some $$$$!
As far as how long its taking to produce. Im actually happy. We know we will have a well tested product when it comes out that will last and be reliable. Plus gives us alittle time to get the money ready!
Tyler
Frequent FitFreak Poster
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 805
From: N Jersey
We are very abusive in our testing. We bounce them off the rev limiter, heat soak engines; we attempt to make them detonate!
My birthday is Feb 20th, it would be awesome if i could buy it by then! *wink* *wink* Then be boosted by spring? maybe? please?
We have done A LOT of road race testing. The Fit kit has actually been improved from its original state BECAUSE of our long term track testing. We are very abusive in our testing. We bounce them off the rev limiter, heat soak engines; we attempt to make them detonate!
If you didn't know Jackson Racing have won 44 SCCA National Championships, including back to back SCCA Escort Endurance Championships. When you walk into Honda dealers and they have the "Double Take" CRX poster on the wall... the yellow car is a Jackson Racing CRX.
Oscar Jackson and Jackson Racing have been one of the most successful Honda road racing organizations. We have won in all conditions, no matter if it's on:
Ice- Our unlimited Turbo/Nitrous Civics won multiple Ice Racing championships.
Gravel- We built the ONLY Honda to ever win a round of the World Rally Championship.
Tarmac- I guess that's stated above.
So to say that we can't talk intelligently about racing or the race track... that is simply and absolutely inaccurate.
-Oscar Jackson Jr.
If you didn't know Jackson Racing have won 44 SCCA National Championships, including back to back SCCA Escort Endurance Championships. When you walk into Honda dealers and they have the "Double Take" CRX poster on the wall... the yellow car is a Jackson Racing CRX.
Oscar Jackson and Jackson Racing have been one of the most successful Honda road racing organizations. We have won in all conditions, no matter if it's on:
Ice- Our unlimited Turbo/Nitrous Civics won multiple Ice Racing championships.
Gravel- We built the ONLY Honda to ever win a round of the World Rally Championship.
Tarmac- I guess that's stated above.
So to say that we can't talk intelligently about racing or the race track
... that is simply and absolutely inaccurate.-Oscar Jackson Jr.
i was aware of your organization's road racing successes prior to your above post. but to be fair, you guys have been a little mum about your testing data, whereas AJR has spoken openly about theirs and has a track record to boot (on the Fit in particular, which is why i'd even mention them). no offense, but this is the car industry, and in the age of nearly instantaneous and free information, no company, OEM or otherwise, gets a free pass regardless of its history of success. it's like the stock market - past performance is no guarantee of future success. unless you prove it.
and for the record, my wife and i were talking about choosing between a fit hybrid vs. supercharging our current fit. since it is likely to be cheaper to supercharge the fit than to eat depreciation, fees, mark-up on the new car, she offered to split the cost of the SC with me.
when you get a chance, these are my specific questions:
1. do you test your AT application with the same regimen as your MT application? i'm specifically concerned with road racing, and i don't go any longer than 30 minutes at a time. it would be nice to know that all i have to do is switch to amsoil AT fluid and call it good, or not. what did you guys do?
2. would you still recommend the base kit (without IC) knowing it will encounter road race conditions? will basically adding a few gallons of 100 octane be sufficient?
3. what type of dyno are you using, and what were the results of your base run and after run? were all those runs on 91 octane?
thanks in advance.